KevinG

Last I heard Jim was driving it up from Florida to Georgia. I'd still like to be able to get on the coach and connect my computer to it. I can replicate the code that Frank worked out for the switches with the tools I have and we can see what on that front CCM works or doesn't. I should also be able to see if the messages from the other controllers are on the CAN network, like the transmission, ABS, Vorad and see if those controllers look ok. Hopefully Jim made it ok and I can meet up with him next weekend. He was heading to a place about 30 minutes from me.

A direct, drop in replacement would require a massive investment for the engineering and design of a new controller. It could be done, and Parker does it, but it's for large volume production. I don't believe the cost warrants it. It would be much easier to develop a kit with existing components and some rewiring instructions to adapt to a new controller. Like David said, most of the functions that the CCMs are doing are simple and easy to figure out. You flip the switch for the headlights and the CAN message from the switch modules changes to show the switch is on. The front CCM reads this message and turns the headlights and parking lights on. The rear CCM does the same for the tail lights. That's easy to setup in a new controller. Some things get a little more complex. The brake lights for example. The front CCM sees the signal from the brake pressure switch on the air line and knows that the brakes are applied. The rear CCM has the outputs to the brake lights. There is a CAN message that is sent from the front to the rear CCM to tell it to turn on the brake lights. It wouldn't take more than a minute to figure out what this message is if you can see the CAN messages between the controllers. Just push the brake pedal and see what changes. It could be in the CCVS message. The engine is going to be looking for this message for the other cruise control functions, but it could be in something else. If you replace both CCMs, then the communication between the two isn't an issue, because you have to write the program for both anyway and you can use whatever message you want. This would also open up the option of using whatever switches for the inputs you wanted because you can setup the controller to read whatever message they are sending. Or bypass the switches all together with a touch screen or simple switches. I'm not sure the adjustment for the pedals needs to be on the controller. I can see the shades, because you may want to be able to close them from another part of the coach, but the pedal adjustment? I don't see the need to adjust the pedals from the rear bedroom. A bluetooth interface is possible. IQAN GO does this with the IQAN line of controllers. It does require more work from the developer because the app needs constant updating as the phone software changes. I've also worked with controllers that had a user interface that was web based. You could connect anything that displayed a webpage to the network and pull up the interface. It worked well to create a set of pages for a service tech to see what was going on with the machine. The issue with most of the commercial products is just going to be the cost for the development license. IQAN Design is $1500 for a license. It's great software and really easy to use. The controllers can't drive the high current loads directly, and would need to drive relays to turn headlights on for example. But the programming is very user friendly. Parkers other line of controllers. The CM3033, is designed for the on highway market and has outputs that can drive things like headlights directly. It is programmed in PEDS, which is CoDeSys, if anyone is familiar with that. There is no license required for this software, so that makes it a nicer option. It's not as user friendly but it's quite powerful. The advantage to driving things light the headlights directly from a controller output is the feedback for error detection. The controller can tell if the circuit is faulted and can then send a warning to the dash to let you know that the left headlight is out for example. You can also vary the output to the lights, so you can run the high beams at 30% during the day as daytime running lights. You can also set a delay off for the lights, so they stay on for X seconds after you turn the coach off. Things like that are features you can gain by using a controller and some software. The CCMs in these coaches are also part fuse block with feedback to the CCM so that it can tell if the fuses are blown. The only thing I see on those fuses that is critical is the ABS_ECU and you can tell if that is functioning by looking for the CAN messages from it. There are quite a few features that were designed into these coaches to make things easier to troubleshoot for people that have no knowledge of how any of this works.

https://www.mcicoach.com/coach/electric-series/features/ That's the coach version. They estimate a range of 225 miles with a 520kWhr battery system. Gives a rough idea of range/battery capacity for something that size.

https://www.newflyer.com/bus/xcelsior-charge-ng/ Basically this. This is a transit design so the floor is low and the batteries are on the roof, but the concept is similar to what you are talking about. New Flyer builds diesel, hybrid, full electric, and hydrogen all on the same chassis with the same controllers. Cruise and vorad would interface fine with an electric drive system. You could even use the same shifter for FNR. Abs and traction control would work as well. The RV park might wonder why the power meter is spinning so fast when you plug in, but it's definitely possible. You wouldn't need the house batteries either so you could use that space for the high voltage batteries too.

You wouldn't need a custom motherboard. There are plenty of commercial options for mobile controllers.

I wasn't that far from finishing the system design before the first auction. I have the front run box wiring worked out and started doing the program for the controllers. I have all the documentation for what CAN messaging the engine, trans and ABS controllers need to see. I hadn't started on the rear CCM wiring yet, but that wouldn't take long. If anyone fries a CCM in the future, let me know. I also would be a bit cautious about using Arduino and Raspberry Pi controllers in a on road mobile environment. They are not running real time and could cause some problems.

The plan was to replace the CCM modules with the Parker CM3033 modules. I have the front box worked out and needed to add a CM0410 slave module to drive some of the relays. I was going to add a LittelFuse HWB60 for the extra relays I needed. The original CCM modules have relays and fuses in that center section, so I would have needed to add a few. The rear CCM was doing less, so that would just get replaced with one CM3033 module and maybe a few relays. The AC Fan would need a relay. The switches would get replaced by either the new Eaton modules since I think I can swap the switch covers and keep the same labeling, or Carling switches and just pick new icons and labels that match. My friend liked the idea of the physical switches over a touch screen, but a screen would be easy to do as well. The Carling VM Switches are CAN/multiplex switches but do not rely on the Master/Slave configuration. So if one switch bank dies, you can just replace it. Plus I've had better luck with Carling switches over Eaton. The rest of the ECUs in the system are still available if they needed to be replaced. So that makes those easier. I'd love to do a electronically controlled Air suspension so that I can vary the ride height as it's driving. Drop the suspension height as you pick up speed, for that road hugging handling and improved aerodynamics. Also would be nice to have an "off-road" button that lifts it up a bit for getting into camp sites. The solenoids are already there for the air leveling, so it's just some sensors and programming.

Wasn't us that got it,but it went for 90k.

So the engine will run, just the CAN side of the engine ECM is dead? Lightning strikes are crazy to troubleshoot. I think the new Eaton switch modules use the same CAN message format and could be a replacement, but it would require some more research.

That would be possible from what I can tell looking at the schematics everything is an on/off output. There might be a variable output used for the high beams to run them as a day time running light, but I think that's it. The engine and transmission would need to be reprogrammed to take direct wire inputs for parking brake,service brake and cruise control, but that is an option. The smart wheel would be tricky to get working, but you could just ignore it and replace those functions with switches on the side console. You would need to keep the CAN network connection between the engine/transmission/ABS/Vorad so that they can all talk to each other. Same for the dash gauges, I think those are mostly CAN.

It's back up for auction. Apparently the insurance company didn't like the #87k price

1 $103.5k after fees,+taxes and shipping from Tampa FL to Oregon.

Wasn't me or my friend that won. 87k was the last bid to Oregon.

Is this the board you are talking about in the RRB? It looks like it handles the engine ECM and Trans power as well as the crank functions. But I don't see anything on the schematic that would interface with the data bus. The J1587 CAN lines, which I think are what are sometimes labeled as RV-C, pass through this board, maybe to the small board next to it? That small board looks like it handles the relays for the two systems. I'm confident I can get the coach running and the main things like lights all working. Some of these other systems might take a bit of work to figure out. The lights are easy. There is an input from the turn signal switch, when that turns on, start flashing the outputs going to the turn signals. That logic is easy to figure out. For some of the other stuff, it will take talking to other owners to find out what happens when you push this button on your coach. 27000651_D VEHICLE ELECTRO.pdf

https://www.copart.com/lot/36809103/salvage-2009-roadmaster-rail-monocoque-fl-tampa-south It's up for auction this Friday, and a friend of mine is very serious about purchasing it. Franks idea of rewiring to regular switches and relays would be possible. It would take some serious work. The engine could be reprogrammed to respond to direct switched inputs for the cruise and engine brake features. Same for the transmission. I went down and looked at the coach 2 weeks ago and I couldn't check much. They wouldn't let me power it on. I've also talked with Brett and he sent me the wiring diagrams he has. It shows me what I need to be able to create a new program and replace the old CCM modules with a new controller. Parker CM3033 is what I am planning on using. It's the replacement for the VMM controllers that have been used for years in Coaches and busses. Tiffin uses the VMMs and will switch to the 3033 as parts for the VMMs are going obsolete. It's a controller designed for this application and I'm an engineer that supports OEMs in implementing these in their applications. I'm the guy the factory calls when they have questions. The great part about this controller is it is programmed with CoDeSys, which has no licensing needs. Once the program is done I can share it with anyone that needs it to do a similar conversion on their own coach. Having access to the code allows for changes to accommodate any future changes needed. The Eaton switches can be replaced with a keypad, or touch screen, or Carling switches, or newer Eaton switches and the program just changed to look for the CAN message from the new switches. These controllers have an internal 5v supply for the smartwheel interface as well and it's a very robust design. These controllers should be available for the next 20+ years and even if they go obsolete, the code can be adapted to a new controller if needed. The engineers at Monaco put everything on the mutliplex CAN bus. I'm not sure I would have put quite so many things on it. Lights make sense. The front and rear controller can split up light control and you don't need to run wires all the way back to the rear lights. Also, having lights driven by a controller like these allows for diagnostics. The controller can tell if a bulb is out, or a wire is broken and let the driver know that a light is out. Direct wiring doesn't offer that. But I'm not sure I would have put the drivers sun shade on the controller, unless there was a need to automatically lower it or raise it when the coach was parked. I'm looking forward to this project, hopefully my friend wins the auction.