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New Garage - floor drain?


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6 hours ago, Bob Nodine said:

Yes, I would make it wider. We have a small house in a subdivision and the garage is not suppose to be more than 2/3 of the square footage of the house. I stayed within that limit but friends tell me if I had made it 2 feet wider no one would say anything. We have a 12 x 14 door for the RV and a 8 x 8 door for other vehicles. Wish that smaller door was a 9 x 9. That is my big regret that I did not add at least another foot to the width of the garage and make that door 9 x 9.  

Besides using both wire and 4000 psi concrete and pouring it 8 inches thick, at the front of the garage where the 12 x 14 door is I poured the concrete down to the footer. This was because I had the floor higher than the driveway to prevent water intrusion and was worried the heavy coach would crack the floor as it rolled over the edge of the floor.

Also had both the floor and the driveway sawed so the concrete would stress crack along the saw joints.

Lots of learnings on projects like this. Thank you!

4 hours ago, 6Wheels said:

Instead of a subterranean drain, you could pour the slab with a curb to direct water away from the walls into a trough in the center of the parking space.  By a trough I mean just an area1-2 inches lower than the sides at the curb.  Slant the trough from the far end toward the overhead door and out the building, or if you will have two doors maybe from the center.  Be specific in your requirements with the concrete company so you get no low spots that will collect liquids.  Require laser leveling to avoid low spots as was mentioned.

Finally, if you think about it you probably want the surface broom swept so you don't have a slip and fall accident.  I know because our concrete was smooth finished and it is very slippery when wet!

If you seal the walls properly or use metal siding you could have a wash bay with proper drainage.  And as Bill said, be sure to seal the floor before you use it.  Product recommended: 

Siloxa-Tek 8505 Ultra Concentrate - 1 Gallon (Makes 5 GALLONS) Penetrating Concrete Sealer, Water, Salt & Oil Repellent  This is a 40% formula, so compare it to others that are 20% or even less (as low as 8%).

In warmer climates any water based siliconate mixture will suffice.  Be sure to match the treatment to the finish on the surface you choose.  There are both smooth finish and rough finish formulations.

 

George thanks for the advice and details on the sealant!

2 hours ago, throgmartin said:

A tight building code enforced area makes projects tougher and more expensive. I did a garage floor pour in Michigan once where the inspector told me flat out I couldn't have floor drains. After he left I ran them anyways, taped off the top of them and did the pour. After the final inspection I took a hammer and chipped the thin layer of cement off the top of the drains, removed the tape and finished them. 🙂 

I put in an outdoor poured RV pad at our current house. I am one of those guys when I build something I build it to last. The approach and the first 10 ft of the pad was heavily rebarred and I poured it 8 inches thick. The footer at the lip of the approached I extended 3 ft in at 12 inches deep. If your approach has a slight slant it will be taking a heavy force as the coach pushes onto it and rolls up to the level area of the pad. Cracks or breakage typically happen on the approach as a heavy vehicle transitions onto a level surface. The entire pour was done with 5,000 psi concrete and with fiber mix at 6 inches deep. Pay the extra few dollars and have the fiber added. My pad which I engineered myself is able to bear 80,000 psi.

If I am going to build something I make sure I never skimp on materials. In the end the cost differential is minimal and cutting corners to save money on any building project will com e back to haunt you. That is why I went with 5,000 psi / fiber mixed concrete and added more rebar then I needed and extended the footer at the approach. My concrete guy I hired to do the pour took a look and shook his head and asked, what the hell do you plan on parking here a 747 ?

RV Pad Before.JPG

RV Pad.JPG

Thanks Chris! Great insight and yes you definitely built a stout pad!

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On thing I did was made a scaled drawing of the building with the motorhome scaled and the work shop area.  I also included the property lines and part of a retaining wall that I had already built.   I also flagged out various sizes on the area I already excavated to help visualize the size.   I did several iterations until I was satisfied with the size and layout and this is why I ended up with a 40' wide X 50' long building.  

I would have made a larger garage but I was constrained by the property line to the east, large boulders to the SE, and a fairly steep hill to the NW. 

One thing I am also contemplating for the future is installing a car lift/storage unit.  The price of one of these is about the same cost per sqft as the garage.  I had to specify a garage door that goes up to the ceiling to have clearance above where I would install the lift.  I can also envision using it to get stuff up the storage area above the shop, which would require a walkway/gang plank to access the lift platform. 

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58 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

On thing I did was made a scaled drawing of the building with the motorhome scaled and the work shop area.  I also included the property lines and part of a retaining wall that I had already built.   I also flagged out various sizes on the area I already excavated to help visualize the size.   I did several iterations until I was satisfied with the size and layout and this is why I ended up with a 40' wide X 50' long building.  

I would have made a larger garage but I was constrained by the property line to the east, large boulders to the SE, and a fairly steep hill to the NW. 

One thing I am also contemplating for the future is installing a car lift/storage unit.  The price of one of these is about the same cost per sqft as the garage.  I had to specify a garage door that goes up to the ceiling to have clearance above where I would install the lift.  I can also envision using it to get stuff up the storage area above the shop, which would require a walkway/gang plank to access the lift platform. 

Jim, it sounds like we are kindred spirits. I did scale drawings as well as I was designing the garage. I wanted a visual representation of how the coach would fit with and without the generator and slides out. After seeing it, I decided to go bigger than the original plan. Lots to think about and anticipate! Thanks!

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51 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Whatever size you will build, soon you'll wish you went bigger...

Yes I’m there already but my wallet gives me a reality check. 

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1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

Whatever size you will build, soon you'll wish you went bigger...

Yup, especially when your wife tells you that she needs to store a bunch of her crap (I mean valuable stuff) in it. 

That's one reason I'm building a shop area with a floor above for storage. 

Amazing, we moved from a 3000 sq ft house into ~4400 sq ft (with lots of attic storage) and still don't have enough room.  I told her to quit buying "stuff". 

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The only thing I wish I had done when I built my shop would have been to run pex tubing in the floor for radiant heat.

I did have a friend who wanted a pit, had the forms inspected, then dug his pit, lined it with cinder blocks and angle iron for a lip to set 2x6s across at the top. After the floor was poured the pit was covered with building materials when the pour inspection was done.

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10 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Yup, especially when your wife tells you that she needs to store a bunch of her crap (I mean valuable stuff) in it. 

That's one reason I'm building a shop area with a floor above for storage. 

Amazing, we moved from a 3000 sq ft house into ~4400 sq ft (with lots of attic storage) and still don't have enough room.  I told her to quit buying "stuff". 

Jim,

There is a law in physics that says junk will expand to fill the available space.😊

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I plan on putting up a garage/building of some type, but haven’t made a final decision as to size yet.  I am definitely going to follow this thread.

I would like to put a pit in, but will need to check local codes first.  I am thinking of putting the pit in the front of the building near the entrance.  That way I can position the coach over whatever section I want to get under.  I figure most of the time I will want to be under the engine area, but with the pit at the front I could pull straight in and stop wherever I want.  I realize that if I’m doing something under the middle of the coach that part of it will be outside, but I can live with that.

Dan 

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With a pit, which I also wish I had, consider how you will get in and out with the coach over it if you only have a short one. Especially an escape path in case of a bad mishap. Don't want to get into it but there were pretty deadly situations documented.

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Pits are great if you have enough room and access.  Ivan K is right on being able to have egress in case of emergency, hard to do unless you build a really long pit that daylights beyond the end of the motorhome.

Even though I pretty much do all my own maintenance it would be hard to justify a pit.  In the past I had to crawl under the coach on asphalt and recently on gravel.  Being able to be on concrete will be a step up.   If I get too old to do that then I'll probably be too old to use the motorhome. 

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19 hours ago, jacwjames said:

On thing I did was made a scaled drawing of the building with the motorhome scaled and the work shop area.  I also included the property lines and part of a retaining wall that I had already built.   I also flagged out various sizes on the area I already excavated to help visualize the size.   I did several iterations until I was satisfied with the size and layout and this is why I ended up with a 40' wide X 50' long building.  

I would have made a larger garage but I was constrained by the property line to the east, large boulders to the SE, and a fairly steep hill to the NW. 

One thing I am also contemplating for the future is installing a car lift/storage unit.  The price of one of these is about the same cost per sqft as the garage.  I had to specify a garage door that goes up to the ceiling to have clearance above where I would install the lift.  I can also envision using it to get stuff up the storage area above the shop, which would require a walkway/gang plank to access the lift platform. 

I have two lifts in my shop.  The 2-post I use for service, as it gives full access to the suspension and everything else.

The 4-post usually has my FD RX-7 stored on it, which opens up the space underneath.
I also shimmed it to be perfectly level at the first hard stop, about waist high.
This allows me to setup my scale platform and alignment fixture on the lift, make measurements, raise the car to adjust, and bring it back down to measure again.
Saves a lot of scale setup time, and no more bending and crawling under the car. 😁

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Back in 2007 when I bought my coach I had a pole barn built on the property.  24x60', 14X14 insulated overhead door, 15' high interior ceiling, conventional asphalt roof, metal siding, two side entry doors one near the front and one near the rear, 4 windows (2 on each side).  The floor is flat with no drain, 8" thick, 3000 psi with one saw cut down the center and 3 other cuts across.  After 13 years no cracks.

Living in NJ, my objective was not to winterize the coach and keep the barn above freezing with minimal to no heat.   So, I spray foamed all the metal exterior walls, added 12" fiberglass to the ceiling and 6" fiberglass to the walls.  Added a 100 amp electric sub panel, 50 amp shore power for the coach, ceiling lighting and electrical outlets every 10' around the interior.  I'd say that the hardest part was hanging and taping the 12x4' sheetrock on the ceiling and walls alone.  I outsourced the exterior construction and floor.  The rest of the interior I did myself. 

Objective was met with numerous below zero days in a row and no supplemental heating.  Interior temps have gotten down to the mid 30's but with the well insulated ceiling and walls and the massive floor thermal mass, the barn has stayed above freezing without supplemental heating.  In the summer, I run a dehumidifier to keep humidity below 50%.  Even when in the 90's outside, the barn stays in the mid 70's.

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Very nice Frank.

Impressive insulating and finishing job.

My shop is a pole barn as well, though not as finely finished inside as yours.

I had Low-E insulation installed throughout, and also used it for an inexpensive, reflective, and insulating ceiling.

For the interior walls I used 7/16" OSB, painted white, which allows brackets and shelving to be attached anywhere.

I have 2 overhead doors and 1 pedestrian.  Also plumbed for water and compressed air, and I have 120v and 240v outlets every 8 feet.

During construction I happened on a year old oil furnace w/ central A/C for $500.

The only time I've had it get down to freezing was when we had several days of single-digit temps, which is rare around here in VA.

If we have that in the forecast I set the furnace at 40 degrees.

The HVAC is worth it's weight in gold though, especially as I get older.  I don't tolerate heat or cold as well as I used to.

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David - Thanks for the kind words.

Before building my pole barn, I had motorhomes for almost 20 years.  They were all winterized and were stored outside.  With the new Dynasty I said no more and decided to build a pole barn.

Luckily I live a in rural western NJ and the zoning laws are pretty good.  I live in a min 1 acre lot size with no homeowners association and the zoning allowes for up to a 1,500 sqft detached garage that needs to be just 15' off the property line with a max roof height of 21'.  The other requirements were that it couldn't have water/septic, used it to store more than 3 vehicles, or used it to store a business inventory.  All fine with me for what I needed so no need to apply for a zoning variance.

I considered a service pit but decided a flat floor gave a lot more flexibility in parking the coach anywhere I wanted.  By driving up on wood ramps it was easy to roll around on a creeper.  Very happy with having a flat floor.

The other consideration was in having a wide 14x14 overhead door and the entry door on the side vs next to the large overhead door.  This gave an illusion that the large square overhead door was actually smaller than it looked.  A few neighbors commented about the pole barn looks much smaller than it actually is when viewed from the street.

For the dehumidifier, I did drill a hole through the floor to add a drain pipe under the concrete slab and out the side of the barn where it exits a sloped grade.

I do have the option to add barn heating from my house hot water boiler heating system.  When I configured the 30,000 to 150,000 BTU modulated boiler I factored in an extra zones for heating the barn but I've yet to find the need to run the 20' of underground piping to heat the barn.  Maybe someday I'll do that but it's not on my to-do project list right now.  Because I have 50 amp power, in a pinch I could always run the aquahot heating in the coach.  But some day, it would be nice to have the option to heat the barn if I ever wanted to do winter projects in the barn.

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Frank,

I sub-contracted all the outside of our garage but my son-n-law and myself did all the interior including the electrical. No water or sewage. I hate sheet rock so we did all the walls with white pegboard and did the ceiling with 1/2" OSB painted white before we put it up. I see you built your own scaffold to do the ceiling. I purchased two sections of metal scaffolding with wheels and three walk board for the top. We would move a sheet up to the top and use an adjustable pole to hold it in place while one of us fastened it with a nail gun. Does not look as nice as sheet rock but it is a garage and I have easy storage on the walls using pegboard hooks. I still have the scaffolding stored on the wall. My brother-n-law and son-n-law have both borrowed it. I am thinking I need to sell it because it is a real pain to put up and take down. We sprayed 14 inches of insulation into the attic and the walls have 6 inches of insulation. I ordered garage doors with a 12.5 R rating. The garage is more efficient than our house. The big problem for us was that the garage needed to be bricked like the house and that was the most expensive single item of the whole project. 

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Bob, good observation.  Yes, I elected to build my own scaffold.  Started with a 4x8' sheet of 3/4" plywood for the deck and just framed it up from there.  Added heavy duty wheels and a railing around the top and near the floor so I wouldn't slide my foot off the platform.  I was going to eventually dismantle it (all screwed or bolted together) but I found it so handy when working on the coach that I just leave it off to the side when not in use.  I lucked out on the 16' crank up drywall lift - found one on ebay new for about $250.  It worked great for the ceiling and tilted for the walls too.  I will admit that hanging 80+ sheets alone did take more than just a few weekends.

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  • 3 years later...

Following this thread now that I'm thinking of building a shop/RV garage.  My research has suggested that 30 feet wide is less costly.  Going to go with 16 foot sides in order to add a second story to part of it for storage.  Also, hoping to have a 14 foot door front and back so that I can just pull straight through.  Love the many ideas I've found in this thread.  Also, it appears that the Knoxville, TN area is a hub for several of us... I'm not retired yet, but more than willing to help out any of you guys that have a project that needs another set of hands.

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I had my garage built in 2020/2021 time frame.  I had looked at both a wood post frame & metal building.  This was at the beginning of Covid and prices were skyrocketing.  One company that put up post frame type buildings backed out just as we were finalizing a quote.  Another company came out to quote and said they'd only supply labor, I'd have to source material and pay for it. 

But the metal building company, located near Bristol, had the best price for a turn key building but I would have the site prep done and the concrete work done.  https://www.jd-metals.com/

So in Aug 2020 I signed the contract for a 40X50X16'.  1 -14X14' garage door, 1-9'X8' garage door, 1- entry door and 8 windows, insulated.  Price came in at $43K.  Site prep excavation, retaining wall,  concrete/rebar. plumbing, electrical, and lumber for a workshop cost me ~$25K.  I had to have a large excavator come in to break rock.  I did excavation for retaining wall and concrete work, the slab spec was for a monolithic slab with footer poured at the same time, which required quite a bit of work.  I also did trenching for plumbing and electrical, and slab/footers.   Hired a concrete crew to finish the concrete, I think I poured 60 yard total.  

They at the time it took +4 months to get the metal for the building, supply chain issues, so they didn't finish putting up the building until Jan 2021.  I asked the salesman if prices had gone up, he said it would have cost me ~$10K more due to price increases. 

I did put water and sewer and 50 amp connection in the garage.  I also built the inside workshop and did all electrical. 

I WISH I would have built 17' high side walls. after I build my workshop with 8' ceiling and 10" floor/ceiling joists I have ~7' above the workshop, wish I had a full 8', I could have built a man cave above the workshop.

Not sure what the total price would be now, my bet quite a bit more. 

I am near Knoxville also. 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, lotosrggp1 said:

One more addition would be to run ethernet cable to it, especially if you have a metal building. They block wifi signals. 

I wish I would have done that.  20:20 hindsight

But I ended up using a point to point extender.  https://www.netgear.com/home/wired/powerline/plp1200/

I have my ATT hotspot Nighthawk in the house with a router that serves the main house.  I have the base for the point to point connected to the hotspot and then the other unit out in the garage with another router.  I did have to run power for an outlet near the Nighthawk, the same panel feeds the garage, this gives a decent signal and speeds.  Not perfect but good enough. 

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4 hours ago, lotosrggp1 said:

One more addition would be to run ethernet cable to it, especially if you have a metal building. They block wifi signals. 

When I added a standby generator, I located it adjacent to my shop to keep any noise away from the house.
I ran fiber-optic cable in the conduit along with the generator control circuits, and added a conduit into the shop for the fiber.
That feeds another wireless router in the shop, which gives me great coverage.
The big advantage of fiber is it's immune to causing damage from a lightning strike.
Running ethernet between buildings can result in a large current spike, which can destroy your routers.
I used inexpensive fiber converters at each end, and have had no problems so far.

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I added a 16 x 50 addition (15' ceiling) to my 42 x 60 shop/garage for my 40 ft. '98 Executive and did not add a floor drain.  The hinged barn door opening has a sloped concrete apron and a rain diverter at the top of the doors which does a good job of keeping the rain out.  I don't wash the RV indoors and any spills from maintenance can be cleaned up with a rag.  I painted the concrete floor with epoxy which helps with cleanup when needed.

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