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Refrigerator problems


Scott and Colleen Miller

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I don't believe that would be a code violation since the 30 amp circuit breaker is protecting the 10awg wire.  As you say you have to watch what you are using.  The 30 amp limit is close to what the generator puts out anyway.  The only problem is the EMS system (if there is one) would not work and you loose the ability to monitor amperage used unless you have a Progressive type surge protector. 

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57 minutes ago, wamcneil said:

From a code perspective, is there any reason why the 50a receptacle needs the be wired with a 50a breaker? 

If you've got a 50a breaker, you need 50a wire. Bit I'm not sure it would be a code violation to wire the 50a receptacle with a 30a breaker and 10 ga wire.  

Nothing unsafe about that. But as you noted, just need to be aware that you can't run more than 30a worth of loads on each leg of power. That would be a lot like plugging 4 hair dryers into a bathroom 15a circuit. Nothing wrong with that as long as you know you can't turn on more than one hair dryer at any given time.

Cheers,

Walter

 

47 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I don't believe that would be a code violation since the 30 amp circuit breaker is protecting the 10awg wire.  As you say you have to watch what you are using.  The 30 amp limit is close to what the generator puts out anyway.  The only problem is the EMS system (if there is one) would not work and you loose the ability to monitor amperage used unless you have a Progressive type surge protector. 

MY opinion, based on having this same discussion with a Licensed NC Electrical (among other things) is this..

IT DEPENDS...

Some Code "inspectors" such as building inspectors will let it slide or NOT call it out.  OTHERS WILL.  The correct way is to MARK THE Receptacle. NOW, again, local codes and ordinances and also "interpretations" prevail.

A 50 RV box comes with the following receptacle....should you ever have to replace just the receptacle.

Leviton 279-S00 50 Amp, 125/250V, Nema 14-50R, 3P, 4W

That means or is interpreted as having all the necessary UPSTREAM components and being connected as a 50 AMP service. IF you DOWNSIZE the service...as in going to 30 Amps, then technically, you need to change out the receptacle to a 30R as well. SOME would even say....as perhaps overkill, PULL THE WIRE. There have been occassions, my friend says, where you had to abandon the service. 

BUT, OTHER inspectors will allow you to label the Receptacle as being DOWNSIZED. A printed or Dymo Label that says 30 AMP SERVICE or DOWN RATED TO 30 Amps is usually the way.  That way, an "unknowing" user with an appliance that requires 50 Amps will NOT use it.

150px-220sb.svg.png

The left one is a NEMA 14 - 30R and the one on the right is a NEMA 14 - 50R. SO, when you plug in your device, the line cord MUST be the same as the receptacle and when you use a NEMA 15 - 50R, you EXPECT 50 amps.

From a safety standpoint, downrating is OK... 

Therein lies the issue. If a Home Inspector is really picky, he would check the main panel. When he saw the 30 Amp (or it could be a 40 as that is what the EV folks are using...from what I understand...as they need 32 Amps continuous for a Tesla), he would expect to see a 30R Receptacle. WRONG....so he makes a comment on the report about a qualified electrician checking and verifying.

I had a 30 Amp single (120, not 240 VAC) RV plug for my Winnie. I ran #10 Wire. I then installed a 50 using #6. I abandoned the 30 box and put in a 20 Amp GFCI outside. My Buddy said you are OK, unless some Inspector happens to pull and check. He said to pull the breaker and put in a 20 amp, which I did. NOW, the wire size is one size TOO Big....but typically, no one will catch or complain.

BUT, if you have a 50R receptacle and it is rated for 50 (#6 Wire) and properly installed, but you downrate it to 30, then I would put a 30 -R outside. I would make up a 30 to 50 Cheater (a rarity as it would be 4 wire) from a dryer cord and put a 50-R on the end and go from there. Sounds crazy...but who said an inspector or a home inspector ever operated on logic.

From a practical standpoint....the downrated 30 will work...and you are SAFE. But from a code standpoint, the 50R is SUPPOSED to have a 50 Amp upstream...

Hope this helps....again, this is what I was told and also read and, in a perverted way, makes sense for the code.

ANYTIME you modify a circuit, you are SUPPOSED to mark it...  Example, in the OLD Days, you could have an outlet in the garage that was at normal height and mark as a DEDICATED CIRCUIT. I changed out an outlet in my daughter's garage. I put in a standard breaker (20 amp) instead of the GFCI. I found the FIRST outlet. I put in a DUAL Gang or TWO receptacles. I wired ONE straight....so it was NOT GFCI rated. Then I ran the feed to the GFCI next to it. I had to LABEL that single Outlet as NON GFCI PROTECTED. I THINK that there was that label in the box. Later on, my buddy told me....NEW CODE...for DEDICATED (Freezer/Refrigerator) calls for a SINGLE (not a Duplex) Outlet ONLY....and later it was that any NON GFCI Outlet in a garage (like for a freezer) had to be a SINGLE and had to be at least 6 feet off the floor.

If you have EVER traced circuits in a garage....they are crazy. IF the garage door opener is the ONLY line, then the feed will go to the overhead (ceiling) and THEN to a wall (lower) location and the GFCI will be there. BUT, if the Garage door comes from say a Lighting circuit, then the lights do NOT require a GFCI so all the lights and the garage door opener are on a standard breaker....and if they run it down...then they pop in a GFCI there. 

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