120v went out rear of coach 2001windsor

[Guest mu2drvr@aol.com]

Arriving late to the party, probably haven't read entire thread. Regarding a GFI: my coach (2001 Diplomat) has two (yes 2) GFI outlets. One in the bathroom, and ALSO one under dining table. Lost my bedroom 120V plugs until discovering the 2nd GFI.

Good luck,

Steve

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Mel S - '96 Safari said:

If you have a GFCI CIRCUIT BREAKER

in your main electrical panel, (breaker box), 

there is no need for individual GFCI receptacles   

  because a GFCI CIRCUIT BREAKER provides protection to an entire circuit, including the wiring and all devices and appliances connected to the circuit.

 

 

E

That was the EXACT point of my post.  IF there is a "Yellow Buttoned" or such GFCI in the main panel....it SHOULD be a 30 Amp to feed the Inverter.  Therefore, there will be NO Downstream GFCI (or need for such).  Fred White often had nuance trips from his on his last Windsor (2004).  he sort of "bypassed" that and put in a regular one.

BUT.....if I read the background and the posts.....there is another ISSUE....in that the Magnum has an OPEN or TRIPPED Circuit Breaker that will NOT reset.  THAT has NOTHING to do with the GFCI in the Panel.  SOMETHING is wrong in the downstream wiring....

NOW>.>>> maybe this has been suggested before....SO if so....I apologize....

From the TOP....  If the GFCI Breaker is ON in the Main Panel....then the Microwave should be ON.  That is on a separate circuit.  There are THREE pin or push in Circuit Breakers on the Magnum.  ONE is the incoming Power.  it is not CLOSE to the other TWO.  The OTHER two are the OUTPUT sides....so if ONE of them will not reset....there is a downstream issue.  DO YOU HAVE POWER to the Microwave?  If so....then quit hunting for upstream (main panel) issues.  If you do NOT have power to the Magnum and NOTHING works (120 VAC), then you have a Circuit (GFCI) issue.  Replace the GFCI.  Find the SAME brand and use it.  You MAY have to order on Amazon.  Don't just buy any brand.....they might NOT be suited for an Inverter Circuit.

NEXT....OK....you HAVE power as in the Microwave or other outlets WORK.  NOW....go through the MOTOR HOME.  Unplug everything (not the Microwave).  THEN try to reset the Pin Breaker.  IF it will not reset, you have either a defective (maybe wear...maybe moisture....maybe mice) issue.....OR you have a Junction Box issue.  Finding that ain't gonna be easy....I wish there was a magic wand....but there ain't.

You need to know WHERE to look and WHY to look there.....as it is....you may just be jumping around and trying stuff.  Hope this makes it a little clearer.... 

[piercelarry69]

2 hours ago, Mel S - '96 Safari said:

If you have a GFCI CIRCUIT BREAKER

in your main electrical panel, (breaker box), 

there is no need for individual GFCI receptacles   

  because a GFCI CIRCUIT BREAKER provides protection to an entire circuit, including the wiring and all devices and appliances connected to the circuit.

 

ok let me file u in         !)  I plugged in a compressor to a out let in basement.  it went on for only a second     So I went breaker. nothing was or is popped. at that time I noticed the radio was off. started check more found  bath plugs not working.  so all plugs in rear and basement are not working. ok first thing  check circuit breaker.   it is not poped.  I go to first plug  no volts. I have a Trace inverter.  only one fuse button it is set     I have lived in this coach 3years now an been in out over an under an no gfi except. the breaker it self.   I have reset this breaker several times an no juice.  I have pushed yellow button  an reset to no avale

ok let me file u in         !)  I plugged in a compressor to a out let in basement.  it went on for only a second     So I went breaker. nothing was or is popped. at that time I noticed the radio was off. started check more found  bath plugs not working.  so all plugs in rear and basement are not working. ok first thing  check circuit breaker.   it is not poped.  I go to first plug  no volts. I have a Trace inverter.  only one fuse button it is set     I have lived in this coach 3years now an been in out over an under an no gfi except. the breaker it self.   I have reset this breaker several times an no juice.  I have pushed yellow button  an reset to no avale

[Tom Cherry]

Thanks for clearing that up.  Not a circuit wizard on the Trace....so let me ask questions or perhaps try to trouble shoot for you...

On the Magnum, there are TWO outputs.  One AC line is for the Microwave and the other is for all the "House" stuff....and at least ONE outlet in the basement.  If you have a circuit....that would be helpful.

Look at the Trace.  There should be one piece of Romex (jacketed cable) coming in.  If you look at the owner's manual for the Trace....you can see which "hole" it goes into....ONE will have to be the INPUT.  Now is the Trace is a 2000 Watt, then that will be from a 30 Amp breaker in the main panel.  That is PROBABLY the GFCI breaker.    

NOW....look at the Trace again.  There maybe (probably) should be TWO lines coming out.  One would be for the Microwave....and the other for all the HOUSE outlets.  Again....this is TYPICAL....but Monaco never did things typically or maybe even the same way...>TWICE>

You have said....I think that you have a "popped" breaker or pin breaker on the Trace and it will not reset.  You have also said that there is only one.  You need to read the manual.  Find out WHICH side it protects.  ODDS ARE....it is on the OUTPUT side.  IN SOME cases....where you have a 2000 Watt inverter, there will be a "sub panel" where the 30 Amp output is divided into TWO circuits.  The Magnum already has TWO separate circuits....but maybe the Trace only has one big one....and it has to be split...

IF I am correct....then you have a dead short somewhere down the line....as in there is a wiring issue.  Since you can NOT reset the breaker (assuming it is on the OUPUT side), then you are going to have to find it.

NOW....there is ONE OTHER possibility.  The Trace has shorted out.  There is an INTERNAL ATS in ALL inverters.  So, if you have incoming voltage....it just PASSES THROUGH.  So, the inverter never has to "invert".  When there is NO voltage....it inverts.  

ONE of the most (per Magnum) common failures on the Magnums (and perhaps the Trace) is that the Relay or the ATS "dies".  Magnum has that as a "PART" of the main circuit board.  So, if the built in ATS FAILS....then you have to replace the main board.  

SO.... a failed ATS (whether wired in or part of the main circuit board) is a distinct possibility.  The compressor would have a high "surge" current when it started up.  NOW....if it "blew" or burned up the Pin Breaker....then that is also another possibility.  You need someone that is an electrician.  They need to do voltage testing.  IF you have GOOD incoming Power....then the can also TEST for a dead short.....AFTER DISCONNECTING the OUTPUT Line (S).  IF you do NOT have a Dead short in the downstream wiring.....then it sounds like the Trace ATS or board has failed.

ONLY A QUALIFIED Electrician should (or COULD) do the following.  

Verify that you have INCOMING Voltage to the Trace....he will have to remove the panel to check.  

Disconnect the OUTLET line(s).....verify that there is NO DEAD SHORT between the HOT (Black) and the Common and the Ground....  IF THAT IS OK...

THEN...do a temporary HOOKUP between the Incoming and the outgoing.  You have eliminated the Trace.  IF you have a dead short....you STILL have the upstream breaker to protect the wiring.  IF all of that "Fixe it" and all works....then you need to have the Trace fixed, replaced (Magnum would also work) or find out WHAT is wrong with the Inverter.

All I can do....based on what I read.

GET A QUALIFIED electrician and let him read this....

[eddie4ne]

On 2/12/2020 at 7:41 AM, piercelarry69 said:

no visible  G F I  except ciccuit breaker it self   however not tripped effecting rear tv plug, both plugs left an right bed plugs, bath plug, basement plug

The outlets you mentioned are all on the same circuit. It took awhile but I managed to figure that out from the schematic.

We have a 2002 Windsor. We were using 110 AC unit (don't ask) and running electric frying pan outside. We blew the circuit. I traced the effected outlets on the schematic and found the connection between the rear TV outlet and the outlet on the side of the dresser had been shorted out. I ran a new wire between the two outlets and replaced those ridiculous push wire outlets with regular household outlets- I had to enlarge the hole since the outlets did not have a box. I used a low profile work box. Everything came back online (bathroom, and all bedroom outlets) but the cargo bay- still trying to figure out how to run another wire safely, any ideas appreciated.

Sharon

Edited April 19, 2020 by eddie4ne

[Dennis H]

Tom did a great job of explaining how it works. Since you indicated you have the GFCI breaker, start there. If it won't reset then I would replace it and see if your issue goes away. Replacements are available at Home Depot. Make sure everything is OFF and coach unplugged BEFORE opening up your breaker panel. If the problem doesn't go away with the new breaker, then you will have to start check every receptacle. As Tom pointed out, these are mobile home type receptacles. If one of the wires 'pops' out of the V notch that can cause a short. Receptacle replacements are easy, just use a regular receptacle from any hardware store. You will have to install a box also.  I've replaced several in my coach as I don't care for the snap in place ones. It will take a little more work to replace them but it's worth in IMO. Another plus is getting a receptacle with a USB port which is beneficial in some cases..Be sure to let us know what you find.....Dennis

[piercelarry69]

30 minutes ago, Dennis H said:

Tom did a great job of explaining how it works. Since you indicated you have the GFCI breaker, start there. If it won't reset then I would replace it and see if your issue goes away. Replacements are available at Home Depot. Make sure everything is OFF and coach unplugged BEFORE opening up your breaker panel. If the problem doesn't go away with the new breaker, then you will have to start check every receptacle. As Tom pointed out, these are mobile home type receptacles. If one of the wires 'pops' out of the V notch that can cause a short. Receptacle replacements are easy, just use a regular receptacle from any hardware store. You will have to install a box also.  I've replaced several in my coach as I don't care for the snap in place ones. It will take a little more work to replace them but it's worth in IMO. Another plus is getting a receptacle with a USB port which is beneficial in some cases..Be sure to let us know what you find.....Dennis

I beleave they are sq D.  im off to home depot

[piercelarry69]

19 hours ago, eddie4ne said:

The outlets you mentioned are all on the same circuit. It took awhile but I managed to figure that out from the schematic.

We have a 2002 Windsor. We were using 110 AC unit (don't ask) and running electric frying pan outside. We blew the circuit. I traced the effected outlets on the schematic and found the connection between the rear TV outlet and the outlet on the side of the dresser had been shorted out. I ran a new wire between the two outlets and replaced those ridiculous push wire outlets with regular household outlets- I had to enlarge the hole since the outlets did not have a box. I used a low profile work box. Everything came back online (bathroom, and all bedroom outlets) but the cargo bay- still trying to figure out how to run another wire safely, any ideas appreciated.

Sharon

 

i looked at mine an it it directly below  the bath vanity were the plug for bath is     how in the heck did u replace wires 

 

[eddie4ne]

Piercelarry69,  I realized that the outlet where the air conditioner was should be where I start troubleshooting- the outlet on the side of the dresser, facing the washer. When I opened it I tested for power and realized I had power to that outlet but not to the TV- next in the daisy chain. Then I tested another wire between the two outlets and had power and the outlets on either side of the bed. Then the problem was figuring how too run the wire to connect the two. I was able to fish the wire behind the paneling in the washer cabinet.

As I said I took this opportunity to change the outlets- a detail tool work like a champ to facilitate the the installation of the low profile outlet box. After that project was complete, I proceeded to test the other outlets on the circuit. From the bathroom, the cellar is the next in tha line. I change the outlet in the bathroom to one that has screwtype connections and connected the cargo bay into it like the previous wiring. When I turned the breaker back on I immediately knew that the wire between the bathroom and the pavement would have to be replaced, I am still trying to figure that one out. Running new wires though the existing harnessing is impossible. I beleive the problem was caused from putting to much on the circuit. The frying pan and the AC was drawing too much juice.

Edited April 19, 2020 by eddie4ne

[piercelarry69]

29 minutes ago, eddie4ne said:

Piercelarry69,  I realized that the outlet where the air conditioner was should be where I start troubleshooting- the outlet on the side of the dresser, facing the washer. When I opened it I tested for power and realized I had power to that outlet but not to the TV- next in the daisy chain. Then I tested another wire between the two outlets and had power and the outlets on either side of the bed. Then the problem was figuring how too run the wire to connect the two. I was able to fish the wire behind the paneling in the washer cabinet.

As I said I took this opportunity to change the outlets- a detail tool work like a champ to facilitate the the installation of the low profile outlet box. After that project was complete, I proceeded to test the other outlets on the circuit. From the bathroom, the cellar is the next in tha line. I change the outlet in the bathroom to one that has screwtype connections and connected the cargo bay into it like the previous wiring. When I turned the breaker back on I immediately knew that the wire between the bathroom and the pavement would have to be replaced, I am still trying to figure that one out. Running new wires though the existing harnessing is impossible. I beleive the problem was caused from putting to much on the circuit. The frying pan and the AC was drawing too much juice.

wow! what a endeavor. 

[ready2retire59]

I'm late to this discussion, but if the breaker keeps tripping when you try to rest it, you're troubleshooting a short circuit NOT an open circuit (no voltage to any outlets).  I suggest you follow the ideas of Tom Cherry above.  If you are electrically inclined, you can try it yourself.  If not, get the qualified electrician Tom suggested.   I've had problems with the RV type outlets in my '03 Windsor but mine were open connections at the outlets leading to no voltage at outlets downstream.  The trick is to break open the circuit upstream of the short and then the breaker will not trip.  If you can determine the halfway point in the schematics and break the daisy chain of the circuit at that point, you can tell if the short is upstream or downstream from that point.  If it's downstream, reconnect the circuit and move halfway downstream on the daisy chain according to the schematics and then break open the circuit again to determine where the short is.  If its upstream , move halfway upstream on the daisy chain and break the circuit there.  Keep going halfway in the direction needed until you find the short.  Unless it's a chewed though wire somewhere between outlets, you'll probably find the bad inverter per Tom above or a disconnected and shorted wire in one of the outlets.   Good luck 

Tony Chiulli 

'03 Windsor

[piercelarry69]

6 minutes ago, ready2retire59 said:

I'm late to this discussion, but if the breaker keeps tripping when you try to rest it, you're troubleshooting a short circuit NOT an open circuit (no voltage to any outlets).  I suggest you follow the ideas of Tom Cherry above.  If you are electrically inclined, you can try it yourself.  If not, get the qualified electrician Tom suggested.   I've had problems with the RV type outlets in my '03 Windsor but mine were open connections at the outlets leading to no voltage at outlets downstream.  The trick is to break open the circuit upstream of the short and then the breaker will not trip.  If you can determine the halfway point in the schematics and break the daisy chain of the circuit at that point, you can tell if the short is upstream or downstream from that point.  If it's downstream, reconnect the circuit and move halfway downstream on the daisy chain according to the schematics and then break open the circuit again to determine where the short is.  If its upstream , move halfway upstream on the daisy chain and break the circuit there.  Keep going halfway in the direction needed until you find the short.  Unless it's a chewed though wire somewhere between outlets, you'll probably find the bad inverter per Tom above or a disconnected and shorted wire in one of the outlets.   Good luck 

Tony Chiulli 

'03 Windsor

thanks Tony I'll try that

[Ernest Tumbleston]

My power on my 2001 Dynasty  kitchen slide went out. Tracing with the schematics, the supply went along the right side to the front and then back to the slide. They went from one outlet to the next and the wire  just slides into the outlet connectors. Two wires in the same contact point caused a weak connection that finally burnt out. I removed the outlet in my forward overhead and used wire nuts to reconnect the three sets of wires that went to that one, weak outlet.  Done!  

[piercelarry69]

Well Guys An Gals.  I found the Problem.       Wiring going from   Bedside Plug  to  breaker box.    Don't  what caused it but  no voltage.      I re wired    in a easier route to the box

[eddie4ne]

Piercelarry69, glad you found the culprit! I have had the outlet on the frontside of the bed  go out also. For some reason it came back on line. I took it apart and pushed the wires into the outlet farther- not sure that had a bearing. I have not replaced that outlet with the screw type outlet YET.  Not looking forward to trying to enlarge the outlet hole up under the cabinet though I may try to figure a way to put the outlet on the wall instead,

I was inspired by your tenacity, I was able to fish another wire from the outlet in the cargo bay to the outlet in the bathroom via the ductwork cutouts for the furnace. It was surprisingly simple. I believe that your outlet that you had to change- if on the forward side of the bed, is the last on the circuit. The one I replaced is the last one from the other end.

Sharon

[piercelarry69]

4 hours ago, eddie4ne said:

Piercelarry69, glad you found the culprit! I have had the outlet on the frontside of the bed  go out also. For some reason it came back on line. I took it apart and pushed the wires into the outlet farther- not sure that had a bearing. I have not replaced that outlet with the screw type outlet YET.  Not looking forward to trying to enlarge the outlet hole up under the cabinet though I may try to figure a way to put the outlet on the wall instead,

I was inspired by your tenacity, I was able to fish another wire from the outlet in the cargo bay to the outlet in the bathroom via the ductwork cutouts for the furnace. It was surprisingly simple. I believe that your outlet that you had to change- if on the forward side of the bed, is the last on the circuit. The one I replaced is the last one from the other end.

Sharon

Well I may not have.  It seems idid not check  the other side of the bed.  well it is out.   Have Know idea were to begin with it   Don't  know what breaker handles it  An since I am single   no need to fix never use it .  We should keep in touch seems u guys   have a model  a year newer than mine an  things are always goin kapuie..

[eddie4ne]

1 hour ago, piercelarry69 said:

Well I may not have.  It seems idid not check  the other side of the bed.  well it is out.   Have Know idea were to begin with it   Don't  know what breaker handles it  An since I am single   no need to fix never use it .  We should keep in touch seems u guys   have a model  a year newer than mine an  things are always goin kapuie..

I am not sure which side of the bed you originally lost, but in our coach the circuit goes from the rear side of dresser to the rear TV to the rear side of bed then to the forward side of bed. When I was tracking down the problem when the bedside outlet was out I realized that it got power from the other side of bed. I took both outlets apart to check what might be the source of the problem. My guess was the wonky outlets! Why would they put something that requires wires to remain stationary without being secured rather in a vehicle which is subject to twists and jarring all of the time, is beyond me!

Keeping in touch sounds since our biggest headache with the coach is the electrical system. We love our coach and wouldn't trade it for newer. We just returned from a three month journey to CA from our home in PA. While on our trip, we realized the alternator was not charging the house batteries while we are in transit. Not a real big deal but then we had the brand new inverter (xantrex sw 3000) go into "rectifying mode", so the house batteries ,even when plugged into shore power was not going to float charge. We called Zantrex and they very patiently talked us through some troubleshooting. They instructed us to reboot the system through the remote panel. Thank goodness that resolved the issue of not going to full charge. We have not yet figured out why the alternator is not charging the house batteries, it keeps the chassis battery charged just fine.

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by eddie4ne

[piercelarry69]

12 minutes ago, eddie4ne said:

I am not sure which side of the bed you originally lost, but in our coach the circuit goes from the rear side of dresser to the rear TV to the rear side of bed then to the forward side of bed. When I was tracking down the problem when the bedside outlet was out I realized that it got power from the other side of bed. I took both outlets apart to check what might be the source of the problem. My guess was the wonky outlets! Why would they put something that requires wires to remain stationary without being secured rather in a vehicle which is subject to twists and jarring all of the time, is beyond me!

well some day I'll check the plug.  I'm 74  an I'm  sore from crawling around.      Altough it sites in the back of my head an bothers me..... things need to work properly

[jacwjames]

Electricity is something that I don't let slide.  A loose wire that may intermittently make a connection could create heat and heat leads to fire. 

I wired my own house and although I tried to make sure all connections were done correctly I had a couple that didn't make good contact which I found when I was testing all circuits.   In particular I had one that got hot enough to melt the tape and wire nut that failed ~6 months after moving in.  Although I didn't have to I put an AFCI outlet as the first point in each circuit (it is now code that you install an AFCI in the service panel that is not protected by a GFCI so essentially every circuit is protected), the AFCI did it's job and kicked the power.  When I traced the wires it was the ~4th junction box where I found the problem. 

Good luck

[piercelarry69]

12 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Electricity is something that I don't let slide.  A loose wire that may intermittently make a connection could create heat and heat leads to fire. 

I wired my own house and although I tried to make sure all connections were done correctly I had a couple that didn't make good contact which I found when I was testing all circuits.   In particular I had one that got hot enough to melt the tape and wire nut that failed ~6 months after moving in.  Although I didn't have to I put an AFCI outlet as the first point in each circuit (it is now code that you install an AFCI in the service panel that is not protected by a GFCI so essentially every circuit is protected), the AFCI did it's job and kicked the power.  When I traced the wires it was the ~4th junction box where I found the problem. 

Good luck

Well thanks for that ..... got me thinking   all I need is to cook myself in a fire..

[jacwjames]

Yes, understand but I'd hate for something to happen and have not said anything.

Last year as we were getting ready to sell our old house after moving into the new house I was working on getting it ready to sell.  For some reason one line of outlets was not working.  I isolated the circuit and started trouble shooting.  The first outlet in the string had a loose connection and had gotten very hot.  It did not kick the breaker.  I had never had this outlet out of the box since owning the house for +25 years. 

So you can see where I'm coming from. 

[piercelarry69]

2 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Yes, understand but I'd hate for something to happen and have not said anything.

Last year as we were getting ready to sell our old house after moving into the new house I was working on getting it ready to sell.  For some reason one line of outlets was not working.  I isolated the circuit and started trouble shooting.  The first outlet in the string had a loose connection and had gotten very hot.  It did not kick the breaker.  I had never had this outlet out of the box since owning the house for +25 years. 

So you can see where I'm coming from. 

I agree with u hole heartedly

[piercelarry69]

Well I'm done all plugs are back working.     TADAAAAA

On 5/3/2020 at 10:38 AM, eddie4ne said:

I am not sure which side of the bed you originally lost, but in our coach the circuit goes from the rear side of dresser to the rear TV to the rear side of bed then to the forward side of bed. When I was tracking down the problem when the bedside outlet was out I realized that it got power from the other side of bed. I took both outlets apart to check what might be the source of the problem. My guess was the wonky outlets! Why would they put something that requires wires to remain stationary without being secured rather in a vehicle which is subject to twists and jarring all of the time, is beyond me!

Keeping in touch sounds since our biggest headache with the coach is the electrical system. We love our coach and wouldn't trade it for newer. We just returned from a three month journey to CA from our home in PA. While on our trip, we realized the alternator was not charging the house batteries while we are in transit. Not a real big deal but then we had the brand new inverter (xantrex sw 3000) go into "rectifying mode", so the house batteries ,even when plugged into shore power was not going to float charge. We called Zantrex and they very patiently talked us through some troubleshooting. They instructed us to reboot the system through the remote panel. Thank goodness that resolved the issue of not going to full charge. We have not yet figured out why the alternator is not charging the house batteries, it keeps the chassis battery charged just fine.

 

SO RE BOOTING   what is that all about??