Inverter

[JDCrow]

And sorry about “combiner” it’s how I think of bringing the 2 battery banks together to start the engine.

Anyway, this was my concern with the alternator and a need for a DC/DC charger

 

 

 

 

[waterskier_1]

1 hour ago, JDCrow said:

I’m looking at Chins “smart” lithium. I believe Battle Born is coming out with their version. The smart lithium has and internal heater that kicks on with Lower temps and allows them to be charged below freezing.

 

12V 300Ah Smart LiFePO4 Battery, Support Low Temperature Charging (-31°F), Built-in 100A BMS, 2000+ Cycles, Mobile Phone APP Monitors Battery SOC Data https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N552MM1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_HKZ4WSB5X36BR8NJ6BXV

Yes, I'm familiar with heated batteries.  It extends the charge (and discharge) temp, but it uses the battery to power the charger.  That would only deplete the battery faster.  Remember, I'm storing this for months, not always connected to shore power.  Even if I didn't keep it connected to shore power, it just seems counterproductive to pay to heat batteries that are in storage.  If this were only for days or even a week or two, that would be one thing, but I store mine for several months.  If I really wanted Lithium batteries bad enough, I'd just pull them and take the batteries indoors.  But then I'd have to replace them with something to keep the essential services in the coach powered up (like the Victron and the router to monitor remotely).  Right now, it isn't worth the effort.  I am considering buying some cells, designing my own BMS, and possibly supplementing my Lifeline AGM when I go dry camping for weeks/months.  But that would be more to learn the details of Lithium battery building and making a cell-based BMS to protect cells individually.  Most battery BMS protect against overvoltage, but assume all cells are good.  One bad cell will expose all the others to overvoltage with conventional BMS.  I guess I miss the engineering aspect since I'm retired 🙂

 

 

20 hours ago, Mark B said:

Thanks for the advise Rick. How do I disconnect the BIRD or is just disconnecting the house from the isolation relay or "maintainer" enough (not the big boy)? Or is the BIRD controlling another relay? I know Battleborn sells the lithium BIM but I didn't think I needed it.

Okay, after seeing Richard's and JD's posts, I think I can answer better.  I have no idea why Monaco would install a BIRD, and not use it Bi-Directionally.  That is why I couldn't figure out why there was a need for the "maintainer".  It seemed redundant (it really is).  If that is like the Lambert Maintainer I had in my Dynasty (looks like it) they were problematic.  Even though the green light was on, it was still not maintaining my chassis battery.  If like mine, it only works one way.  The BIRD controls charging when the engine (alternator) is running, and the "maintainer" controlled charging the chassis when on shore power.  So, I believe if you remove the purple wire from the BIRD and tape it well so it doesn't short out, you'll still have the BAT BOOST function.  One of those purple wires goes to the BAT BOOST switch, and the other goes to the Isolator Relay (I called it Big Boy, but it may be a different brand).  With it removed from the BIRD, the BIRD can no longer control the Isolator Relay, but the remaining purple wire to the BAT BOOST is still functional.  This should disconnect the alternator from the house batteries while the engine is running.  Now, the wire that you have circled I believe goes to the house batteries.  If you disconnect that (and tape it also), then you will have inhibited the charging of the chassis battery from shore power.  Ask if you have any questions.

[JDCrow]

22 minutes ago, waterskier_1 said:

Yes, I'm familiar with heated batteries.  It extends the charge (and discharge) temp, but it uses the battery to power the charger.  That would only deplete the battery faster.  Remember, I'm storing this for months, not always connected to shore power.  Even if I didn't keep it connected to shore power, it just seems counterproductive to pay to heat batteries that are in storage.  If this were only for days or even a week or two, that would be one thing, but I store mine for several months.  If I really wanted Lithium batteries bad enough, I'd just pull them and take the batteries indoors.  But then I'd have to replace them with something to keep the essential services in the coach powered up (like the Victron and the router to monitor remotely).  Right now, it isn't worth the effort.  I am considering buying some cells, designing my own BMS, and possibly supplementing my Lifeline AGM when I go dry camping for weeks/months.  But that would be more to learn the details of Lithium battery building and making a cell-based BMS to protect cells individually.  Most battery BMS protect against overvoltage, but assume all cells are good.  One bad cell will expose all the others to overvoltage with conventional BMS.  I guess I miss the engineering aspect since I'm retired 🙂

 

 

Okay, after seeing Richard's and JD's posts, I think I can answer better.  I have no idea why Monaco would install a BIRD, and not use it Bi-Directionally.  That is why I couldn't figure out why there was a need for the "maintainer".  It seemed redundant (it really is).  If that is like the Lambert Maintainer I had in my Dynasty (looks like it) they were problematic.  Even though the green light was on, it was still not maintaining my chassis battery.  If like mine, it only works one way.  The BIRD controls charging when the engine (alternator) is running, and the "maintainer" controlled charging the chassis when on shore power.  So, I believe if you remove the purple wire from the BIRD and tape it well so it doesn't short out, you'll still have the BAT BOOST function.  One of those purple wires goes to the BAT BOOST switch, and the other goes to the Isolator Relay (I called it Big Boy, but it may be a different brand).  With it removed from the BIRD, the BIRD can no longer control the Isolator Relay, but the remaining purple wire to the BAT BOOST is still functional.  This should disconnect the alternator from the house batteries while the engine is running.  Now, the wire that you have circled I believe goes to the house batteries.  If you disconnect that (and tape it also), then you will have inhibited the charging of the chassis battery from shore power.  Ask if you have any questions.

Sorry missed the months in storage. I thought you were using in low temps. 

[Batmobile]

Further to my original post, I've received a response from Fisher-Paykel. See attached. 

Our PSW is on its way to us...(my Dad's contribution to our project). We'll add this inverter with a switch so we can switch from Inverter power to shore power.

Alternate Energy Generation.pdf

[saflyer]

On 6/13/2021 at 5:58 PM, waterskier_1 said:

It seems that certain devices are more sensitive than others.  Any device that uses a "wall wart" to take 120 VAC to some other X VDC (where X = 5, 9, 12, 18, 24, etc.) work fine since any ac is converted to DC before the device sees it.  Over the years, it seems high end coffee makers (Keurig specifically) and electric blankets/throws with digital readout controls seem to be the biggest problems.  The only manufacture doing business in the USA (as of a few years ago) that warranties their refrigerator for operation on MSW inverters is Samsung.  That's why so many are using it even with all the problems (recalls, class-action suits, etc.) they have against them.  That isn't to say that they are the only ones to make a refrigerator that will operate on MSW, but rather that they are the only manufacturer to incur the cost and time testing their refrigerator so they know it will not be affected by MSW.  As you may imagine, using inverters to power residential refrigerators is a very small portion of the potential consumers.  I personally haven't heard of a single refrigerator failure due solely to being operated on MWS.  But I have read many warranties that won't cover their refrigerators operating in a mobile environment.  Look at what the coach manufacturers are installing.  I don't think all new coaches come with PSW inverters, but the ones with residential refrigerators might?

  

Does this mean all Samsung refrigerators? A friend is buying an RF18 and is concerned about using his MSW inverter. Can I tell him not to worry?

Ed

[Dr4Film]

Ed, tell him that the Samsung RF-18 will function fine with his MSW Inverter. My Samsung RF-197 has been working just fine for over the past 9 years now while using the Trace/Xantrex RV-2012 MSW Inverter.

[InGodWeTrust]

On 6/14/2021 at 4:43 PM, Mark B said:

I just finished my electrical system upgrade. A little spendy but I now have the system I want.

Replaced the Xantrex RV2012 with a new Xantrex SW3012 and controller with auto gen start.

Replaced the old IOTA transfer switch to a WFCO ATS.

Added a Southwire Surge Guard hardwired in with the remote monitor.

Replaced the solar controller with a Victron 100/50 mppt, 200 watts on the roof expandable to 700.

Added a Victron BMV-712 battery monitor, redundant to the inverter controller but it has bluetooth and is networked with the solar controller. I located the shunt in a spot under the main fuse. 

Pulled network cable from the back to the front, ran it up the passenger side A pillar into the control cabinet. This was by far the hardest part of the project. Cables for the battery monitor, surge protector and inverter controller.

Up-sized the wire on the positive side from the battery box to the disconnect, to the fuse, and out to the inverter line. All the negative and positive run to the inverter were already 4/0.

Finally replaced my dead 4-6 volt house batteries with 2 100 amp hour Battleborn batteries.

This project was completed over a five month period with four trips in between. We are going to spend some time off grid to test it all next week on our way to Bishop Ca. Going to stop at Alabama Hills in Lone Pine for a couple of nights.

I'd be glad to answer any question about my setup.

Hey  Mark thanks for info replacing rv2012 for sw3012 what did you do with ground  on old trace.