New exhaust

[klcdenver]

I have the Ag Diesel Solutions on my 2007 ISL 400 and it is working nicely. I talked to them before I bought and it appears to do better than they claimed. Leaving in 10 days on a long trip where I can get a better test of it. It has a 30 day money back guarantee if you don’t like it. You should call and talk to them as I found them very helpful. 812-618-9168.

[vanwill52]

2 hours ago, moxy1962 said:

So you are trying to say that the engine uses the same amount of fuel at idle as it does at full throttle, that no matter what the demand, more power needs more fuel, afr and egt would say you are wrong, not sure where you are going with your assumption, but to make more power the engine burns more fuel, with turbo charged applications the demand for fuel increases dramatically to maintain an afr of between 14-1 and 16 - 1 for turbo applications, if the ecm did not add addition fuel the engine would lose power, there is a balance between egt, pollution and power , the ecm ensures clean burning powerful reasonable egt running, simple as that, the engine burns more fuel the higher the boost, your repeated comment that it doesn’t is wrong, I’ve never said once anything about exceeding engine parameters with respect to boost, fuel pressure or metering, 

NO!  I'm saying that no matter how high your boost pressure is above the "stock" configuration, the ECM will NOT deliver ANY additional fuel to take advantage of the increased boost BEYOND THE MAX IT IS ALREADY PROGRAMMED FOR.  At your STOCK boost PSI, the ECM will deliver a max amount of fuel that is programmed for that max STOCK boost.  Increase your boost above stock and the ECM will not deliver one iota more fuel.  Only Cummins INSITE software can change that.

The ECM delivers an amount of fuel based on throttle position, boost, and a few other parameters like intake manifold temperature, coolant temperature, etc.  But NOTHING (other than a "chip") will deliver one iota beyond the MAX fuel per injection that the ECM is programmed to deliver.  Re-read my post more carefully.

If it was as simple as increasing boost to increase performance, there would not be a "chip" industry.  All you would have to do is increase boost, the ECM adds more fuel because of increased boost...and VOILA!...you have more power.

You are talking about "theory", which I HOPED was true when I began this adventure.  I hoped if I increased boost, the ECM would recognize the additional boost and add more fuel.  ABSOLUTELY NOT.  I'm talking about lots of hours of EXPERIENCE, learning that the ECM will NOT add extra fuel just because I have raised boost pressure.  Increased boost will reduce EGT, but will not add additional fueling.  Without additional fueling, there is NO increase in power.  A few folks on this forum understand that principle.

I'm not trying to be rude, and certainly not condescending.  I'm simply stating a FACT that my EXPERIENCE has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt--raising boost will NOT increase MAX fuel delivery (and therefore CANNOT increase power).  If you wish to dispute that fact, please provide dyno statistics...before and after boost increase.  Your OPINIONS fall into the same category as my HOPES when I began increasing boost pressure.  I'm an engineer.  I trust FACTS.  The FACT is that increasing my boost pressure did nothing other than reduce my EGT.  I was disappointed.  I hoped the ECM would recognize the additional boost and supply additional fuel to take advantage of it.  NOPE.  I had to add a "chip" to get increased fueling...and performance.

3 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Van,

My Banks Power-Pack appears to have taken a dump on our trip to New Hampshire last May. We had stopped at a rest area about 150 miles from our final destination for the summer. Upon leaving the rest area I had absolutely no boost nor did I have any readings on my two Banks gauges, the EGT or the Boost. I pulled over to the side of the highway and installed the "bypass" plug that was given to me at the time of installation which bypasses the Ottomind ECM and returns the engine back to normal.

We drove the rest of the way to our jobs at Totem Pole Park with no problems. A few weeks later I checked the 5 amp power fuse to the Ottomind ECM to see if it had blown (as it had done before back in 2017 on our Western NP Trip) but it had not. I can only assume that the Ottomind ECM has now completely failed. I will do some more troubleshooting before we leave to return to Florida in October but I don't have my hopes up that I will find anything positive.

From posts that I have read on iRV2.com, others that had the Banks Power-Pack system installed have stated that their Ottomind ECM failed around the 6-8 year time-frame. I looked up when I had mine installed and it turns out that it had been working almost 8 years now as it was installed in July of 2013. Banks chose not to design their own proprietary ECM for the Power-Pack System as there wasn't enough of a market for them to recoup their research and design costs so I am SOOL.

Do you recommend the AG Diesel Solutions ECM for the Cummins ISC 8.3L with the CAPS Fuel System that you referenced in a post above?

I wish I could find something that would take the place of the failed Ottomind ECM utilizing the bigger turbo that Banks had installed and their gauges but that is only a pipe-dream.

Thanks!

Richard,

I suspect that you can talk to the folks at Ag Solutions and get a 12100 part number pre-programmed to take advantage of the additional boost the Banks "hot-rod" turbo provides.  I think they tend to be somewhat conservative.  Just like the Cummins ECM, their "chip" is programmed to provide only a specified amount of additional fueling.  You are like me, and I think you could keep an eye on your EGT gage and control EGT with throttle position and RPM.  They are not expensive, and they simply have an “extension cord” device that plugs into one of the three-prong connectors leaving the injection control unit.  It’s a very easy addition.  I have no doubt you could handle the installation yourself.  Just tell them you already have the Banks turbo and tell them what your boost PSI is.  Ask them to program your unit accordingly.

You have my phone number.  Call me if you have any questions.

Van

[moxy1962]

1 hour ago, vanwill52 said:

NO!  I'm saying that no matter how high your boost pressure is above the "stock" configuration, the ECM will NOT deliver ANY additional fuel to take advantage of the increased boost BEYOND THE MAX IT IS ALREADY PROGRAMMED FOR.  At your STOCK boost PSI, the ECM will deliver a max amount of fuel that is programmed for that max STOCK boost.  Increase your boost above stock and the ECM will not deliver one iota more fuel.  Only Cummins INSITE software can change that.

The ECM delivers an amount of fuel based on throttle position, boost, and a few other parameters like intake manifold temperature, coolant temperature, etc.  But NOTHING (other than a "chip") will deliver one iota beyond the MAX fuel per injection that the ECM is programmed to deliver.  Re-read my post more carefully.

If it was as simple as increasing boost to increase performance, there would not be a "chip" industry.  All you would have to do is increase boost, the ECM adds more fuel because of increased boost...and VOILA!...you have more power.

You are talking about "theory", which I HOPED was true when I began this adventure.  I hoped if I increased boost, the ECM would recognize the additional boost and add more fuel.  ABSOLUTELY NOT.  I'm talking about lots of hours of EXPERIENCE, learning that the ECM will NOT add extra fuel just because I have raised boost pressure.  Increased boost will reduce EGT, but will not add additional fueling.  Without additional fueling, there is NO increase in power.  A few folks on this forum understand that principle.

I'm not trying to be rude, and certainly not condescending.  I'm simply stating a FACT that my EXPERIENCE has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt--raising boost will NOT increase MAX fuel delivery (and therefore CANNOT increase power).  If you wish to dispute that fact, please provide dyno statistics...before and after boost increase.  Your OPINIONS fall into the same category as my HOPES when I began increasing boost pressure.  I'm an engineer.  I trust FACTS.  The FACT is that increasing my boost pressure did nothing other than reduce my EGT.  I was disappointed.  I hoped the ECM would recognize the additional boost and supply additional fuel to take advantage of it.  NOPE.  I had to add a "chip" to get increased fueling...and performance.

Richard,

I suspect that you can talk to the folks at Ag Solutions and get a 12100 part number pre-programmed to take advantage of the additional boost the Banks "hot-rod" turbo provides.  I think they tend to be somewhat conservative.  Just like the Cummins ECM, their "chip" is programmed to provide only a specified amount of additional fueling.  You are like me, and I think you could keep an eye on your EGT gage and control EGT with throttle position and RPM.  They are not expensive, and they simply have an “extension cord” device that plugs into one of the three-prong connectors leaving the injection control unit.  It’s a very easy addition.  I have no doubt you could handle the installation yourself.  Just tell them you already have the Banks turbo and tell them what your boost PSI is.  Ask them to program your unit accordingly.

You have my phone number.  Call me if you have any questions.

Van

I never said it did? Never once said anything about exceeding factory set parameters, all I ever said was stock exhaust or not, my machine makes 28 lbs of boost, anyone who puts free flowing exhaust will see no gains in boost or performance, just louder, perhaps re reading  my posts would add some clarity 

Edited July 18, 2021 by moxy1962

[gjh2916]

I had a Banks Power Pak System on my ISC 8.3 coach and four years ago the the controller bit the dust. Was told by Banks they no longer support my system and controller were not available. I disconnected the the controller and wiring harness, left the banks turbo, and waste gate. I installed a USDIESELCHIP Controller which I purchased from TS Performance in Bowling Green KY. I am well pleased with the performance and fuel  mileage. The only thing is I can't turn it all the way up because if I do engine warning lights come on. If I set it about 2/3rds of the way it preforms perfect 

[Dr4Film]

19 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

NO!  I'm saying that no matter how high your boost pressure is above the "stock" configuration, the ECM will NOT deliver ANY additional fuel to take advantage of the increased boost BEYOND THE MAX IT IS ALREADY PROGRAMMED FOR.  At your STOCK boost PSI, the ECM will deliver a max amount of fuel that is programmed for that max STOCK boost.  Increase your boost above stock and the ECM will not deliver one iota more fuel.  Only Cummins INSITE software can change that.

The ECM delivers an amount of fuel based on throttle position, boost, and a few other parameters like intake manifold temperature, coolant temperature, etc.  But NOTHING (other than a "chip") will deliver one iota beyond the MAX fuel per injection that the ECM is programmed to deliver.  Re-read my post more carefully.

If it was as simple as increasing boost to increase performance, there would not be a "chip" industry.  All you would have to do is increase boost, the ECM adds more fuel because of increased boost...and VOILA!...you have more power.

You are talking about "theory", which I HOPED was true when I began this adventure.  I hoped if I increased boost, the ECM would recognize the additional boost and add more fuel.  ABSOLUTELY NOT.  I'm talking about lots of hours of EXPERIENCE, learning that the ECM will NOT add extra fuel just because I have raised boost pressure.  Increased boost will reduce EGT, but will not add additional fueling.  Without additional fueling, there is NO increase in power.  A few folks on this forum understand that principle.

I'm not trying to be rude, and certainly not condescending.  I'm simply stating a FACT that my EXPERIENCE has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt--raising boost will NOT increase MAX fuel delivery (and therefore CANNOT increase power).  If you wish to dispute that fact, please provide dyno statistics...before and after boost increase.  Your OPINIONS fall into the same category as my HOPES when I began increasing boost pressure.  I'm an engineer.  I trust FACTS.  The FACT is that increasing my boost pressure did nothing other than reduce my EGT.  I was disappointed.  I hoped the ECM would recognize the additional boost and supply additional fuel to take advantage of it.  NOPE.  I had to add a "chip" to get increased fueling...and performance.

Richard,

I suspect that you can talk to the folks at Ag Solutions and get a 12100 part number pre-programmed to take advantage of the additional boost the Banks "hot-rod" turbo provides.  I think they tend to be somewhat conservative.  Just like the Cummins ECM, their "chip" is programmed to provide only a specified amount of additional fueling.  You are like me, and I think you could keep an eye on your EGT gage and control EGT with throttle position and RPM.  They are not expensive, and they simply have an “extension cord” device that plugs into one of the three-prong connectors leaving the injection control unit.  It’s a very easy addition.  I have no doubt you could handle the installation yourself.  Just tell them you already have the Banks turbo and tell them what your boost PSI is.  Ask them to program your unit accordingly.

You have my phone number.  Call me if you have any questions.

Van

Thanks Van! I may wait until after the Monacoers Gathering in February to make a decision as to what to do if anything. I can talk to you more in depth at that time.

17 hours ago, gjh2916 said:

I had a Banks Power Pack System on my ISC 8.3 coach and four years ago the the controller bit the dust. Was told by Banks they no longer support my system and controller were not available. I disconnected the the controller and wiring harness, left the banks turbo, and waste gate. I installed a USDIESELCHIP Controller which I purchased from TS Performance in Bowling Green KY. I am well pleased with the performance and fuel  mileage. The only thing is I can't turn it all the way up because if I do engine warning lights come on. If I set it about 2/3rds of the way it preforms perfect 

Gary, prior to having the Banks Power-Pack system installed I had a TS Performance MP-8 Power Play installed while up in Alaska one year. Upon leaving for the lower 48 I immediately had engine warning lights lit up on my dash and the engine response was horrible not even close to what I expected. Attempted to try different settings with horrible results. Finally had to pull over and turn the damn thing off completely just to get going down the road. Left it turned off until I purchased the Banks Power Pack and the Banks installation tech removed it for me. I then sold it on eBay just to get rid of it.

Now that my Power Pack is no longer operational I may try the AG Diesel Solutions chip one day.

[gjh2916]

I had a Banks Power Pak System on my ISC 8.3 coach and four years ago the the controller bit the dust. Was told by Banks they no longer support my system and controller were not available. I disconnected the the controller and wiring harness, left the banks turbo, and waste gate. I installed a USDIESELCHIP Controller which I purchased from TS Performance in Bowling Green KY. I am well pleased with the performance and fuel  mileage. The only thing is I can't turn it all the way up because if I do engine warning lights come on. If I set it about 2/3rds of the way it preforms perfect.

Time flies my initial MP-8 purchase was in 2014, I had problems with it, 2015 TS Performance sent me a new and improved MP-8 Pro at no cost. Since then everything has worked fine. My horsepower has increase, fuel mileage stayed the same. On the rolling interstate hills my coach will maintain 65 or 70 what ever I have the cruise set at.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by gjh2916

[cbr046]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

Now that my Power Pack is no longer operational I may try the AG Diesel Solutions chip one day.

Now that got me to thinkin . . . .

The AG DS chip says it gives 10-20% better mileage and costs $724 (ISC w CAPS pump).  So at 10% better mpg it would take $7500 in fuel to save $750, or 2500 gallons (at $3/g).  At 9.5 mpg, a 1 mpg increase, that's 23,750 miles, or about 2 years driving for me.  I'm using round numbers BTW for order of magnitude. 

I'm not concerned in my 0-70 elapsed time or if I can pull that hill without dropping speed.  It's all about the buck.  THE PROBLEM IS . . . . . DW handles all the finances.  Convincing her is the challenge. 

Let 'er rip,

- bob

[vanwill52]

33 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Now that got me to thinkin . . . .

The AG DS chip says it gives 10-20% better mileage and costs $724 (ISC w CAPS pump).  So at 10% better mpg it would take $7500 in fuel to save $750, or 2500 gallons (at $3/g).  At 9.5 mpg, a 1 mpg increase, that's 23,750 miles, or about 2 years driving for me.  I'm using round numbers BTW for order of magnitude. 

I'm not concerned in my 0-70 elapsed time or if I can pull that hill without dropping speed.  It's all about the buck.  THE PROBLEM IS . . . . . DW handles all the finances.  Convincing her is the challenge. 

Let 'er rip,

- bob

Bob,

I wish you luck convincing "Mrs. Bob", but I find that claims for increased performance ACCOMPANIED by fuel mileage increases are 99% "snake oil" and 1% anecdotal anomalies.  My own experience with increasing fueling on my 1993 Dynasty 8.3-250 and my 2000 Dynasty ISC-350, is that fuel mileage DECREASES a small amount in proportion to how much you use that extra available power (extra FUELING).  There ain't no free lunch.

I asked Ag Solutions to pre-program my 12100 "chip" for a modest increase, and not to reach the point of smoking.  I got a modest increase in power, which I use every time I exit a rest stop to merge.  Even with 30 PSI boost, I reach 1400*F EGT by the time I merge.  And my fuel mileage has suffered only about 0.2 MPG.  I enjoy the additional power, but use it as little as possible.  And, of course, it increases EGT, so I think it's prudent to install an EGT gage prior to a "chip" and establish a "baseline" before adding fueling.  I've found that bone-stock EGT can be considerably beyond the ubiquitously accepted 1200*F.  My bone-stock ISC-350 would EASILY reach 1400*F under some conditions.  And contrary to popular opinion, there is NO sensing of EGT by the stock ECM.  I SUSPECT (do not KNOW) that Cummins exhaustively tested their ECM program to preclude engine damage under 99% of all expected operating conditions.

You can, of course, increase boost pressure to bring down EGT to "pre-chip" levels, as discussed elsewhere on this forum.

[Dr4Film]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:30 AM, Dr4Film said:

Van,

My Banks Power-Pack appears to have taken a dump on our trip to New Hampshire last May. We had stopped at a rest area about 150 miles from our final destination for the summer. Upon leaving the rest area I had absolutely no boost nor did I have any readings on my two Banks gauges, the EGT or the Boost. I pulled over to the side of the highway and installed the "bypass" plug that was given to me at the time of installation which bypasses the Ottomind ECM and returns the engine back to normal.

We drove the rest of the way to our jobs at Totem Pole Park with no problems. A few weeks later I checked the 5 amp power fuse to the Ottomind ECM to see if it had blown (as it had done before back in 2017 on our Western NP Trip) but it had not. I can only assume that the Ottomind ECM has now completely failed. I will do some more troubleshooting before we leave to return to Florida in October but I don't have my hopes up that I will find anything positive.

From posts that I have read on iRV2.com, others that had the Banks Power-Pack system installed have stated that their Ottomind ECM failed around the 6-8 year time-frame. I looked up when I had mine installed and it turns out that it had been working almost 8 years now as it was installed in July of 2013. Banks chose not to design their own proprietary ECM for the Power-Pack System as there wasn't enough of a market for them to recoup their research and design costs so I am SOOL.

Do you recommend the AG Diesel Solutions ECM for the Cummins ISC 8.3L with the CAPS Fuel System that you referenced in a post above?

I wish I could find something that would take the place of the failed Ottomind ECM utilizing the bigger turbo that Banks had installed and their gauges but that is only a pipe-dream.

Thanks!

I wanted to post a follow-up from the post above that I did back in July.

Today I decided to take a closer look at the two power wires that power up the Banks Power Pack Ottomind Control module. So while I was doing routine maintenance on my House Battery Bank I looked closer at the positive cable connection & it looked clean and secure however the negative side looked somewhat suspicious. I removed the negative wire and clipped the end off to crimp on a new ring connection. Hooked it back up to the negative connection and fired up the engine. To my surprise the Banks Power Pack system came alive.

So for whatever reason just stopping at a rest area and starting back up, the negative cable must have been compromised enough to shut down the Banks system at that time.

I am a Happy Camper now that I found the culprit.