Electrical Issue

[LJPierce_ELY]

On 8/4/2021 at 9:47 AM, jacwjames said:

 

........................... I would check the two lines going to the 50 amp breaker, these are the wires that come from the transfer switch, both should have 120 volts on them.  If there is power on both of them then the transfer switch is good, if not the problem points to the circuit board.

 

I just checked those 50 amp breakers and sure enough, the right one is not registering anything.

If both of those inputs come from the transfer switch, and one is dead, then that would mean the transfer switch, the shore power cord, or even possibly a breaker on the Pedestal, would be bad, correct?

Would this ATS be an acceptable alternative to the Esco LPT50-BRD?

From what I've been reading, there is a definite and palpable hatred of IOTA and I get it. If the dang IOTA is causing this, then I need to get it replaced most quickly if not sooner.

 

https://www.campingworld.com/50-amp-automatic-transfer-switch-50065.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign={Campaign}&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu7OIBhCsARIsALxCUaPyVFmP4W981bVzdQgUtGcnY4Qk1nejQ7f2TJc28rCyW1O7O3X3rXIaAm1OEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Edited August 6, 2021 by LJPierce_ELY

[LJPierce_ELY]

To keep it simple in my head, if I'm reading everything right, I've got a problem somewhere between the Pedestal up to and including the POS IOTA ATS. Would that be a fair summation?

On the presumption that the ATS has gone or is in the process, I'm going to head to Reno and pick up a replacement ATS.

Edited August 6, 2021 by LJPierce_ELY

[Ivylog]

Grey panel’s #2 & #6 breakers are GFI breakers… you do not need to add a GFI outlet to the basement.

[Guest Ray Davis]

8 hours ago, LJPierce_ELY said:

Breaker 7, does nothing when tripped (Kitchen AC plugs which aren't working right now because of the main problem) That being said, I attempted to trip it via the GFC test button and it did NOT trip.

Did you use the Fluke to see if you are getting power out of breaker number 7  ?

If there is no power out of breaker 7  try switching the breaker with breaker #2 and see if the problem moves with the breaker.

Actually since #7 GFCI breaker doesn't trip as it should,  I would just go ahead and swap the breakers.

Wouldn't it be nice if the problem is that breaker?

Edited August 7, 2021 by Ray Davis

[Guest Ray Davis]

 

 

6 hours ago, Ivylog said:

Grey panel’s #2 & #6 breakers are GFI breakers… you do not need to add a GFI outlet to the basement.

Look again,  looks like #7 to me.

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, LJPierce_ELY said:

I just checked those 50 amp breakers and sure enough, the right one is not registering anything.

If both of those inputs come from the transfer switch, and one is dead, then that would mean the transfer switch, the shore power cord, or even possibly a breaker on the Pedestal, would be bad, correct?

Would this ATS be an acceptable alternative to the Esco LPT50-BRD?

From what I've been reading, there is a definite and palpable hatred of IOTA and I get it. If the dang IOTA is causing this, then I need to get it replaced most quickly if not sooner.

 

https://www.campingworld.com/50-amp-automatic-transfer-switch-50065.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign={Campaign}&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu7OIBhCsARIsALxCUaPyVFmP4W981bVzdQgUtGcnY4Qk1nejQ7f2TJc28rCyW1O7O3X3rXIaAm1OEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

We, or at least me, does NOT remember reading anything about the Progressive Dynamics ATS. 

However, we have never had anyone make a complaint or have an issue with an ESCO Product. That is your call.

Personally, I would go with the LPT50BRD. That is the number one switch stocked at most large RV Shops...

The customer service and tech support from ESCO are impeccable....

NOW....you MIGHT ought to consider installing the Progressive Industries HW50C.  If you do it now, then you will have an upstream (it does on the LINE or the SHORE input....PRIOR to the ATS....Surge Suppressor as well as a "LINE MONITOR" that checks for all sorts of power conditions and SHUTS DOWN before you blow something up.

If you put in the ESCO (or any NEW ATS), you will have to PULL the SHORE line from the NEW ATS and run it to the HW50C....and run a short jumper or connector to the new ATS.  

It is YOUR call....but most here have surge protection or should....and the two component system is reliable and field servicable

[LJPierce_ELY]

58 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

 

 

Look again,  looks like #7 to me.

I stand corrected. I typed that out in a hurry. Yes. #7.

1 hour ago, Ray Davis said:

Did you use the Fluke to see if you are getting power out of breaker number 7  ?

If there is no power out of breaker 7  try switching the breaker with breaker #2 and see if the problem moves with the breaker.

Actually since #7 GFCI breaker doesn't trip as it should,  I would just go ahead and swap the breakers.

Wouldn't it be nice if the problem is that breaker?

I did not switch the breakers. After another response, I checked the power on the main breakers from the Brown covered panel which apparently gets powered up from the Auto transfer Switch. The right main breaker on that panel, which should have power, is dead.

So, instead of mucking around with playing with an otherwise potential arson special with the darned IOTA, and the fact that I want my Generator back online instead of being a useless weight to be hauled around (when I'm in Mo-bile Domi-cile mode), I'm just replacing the IOTA.

I will feel much better doing that. Then, if I still have a power problem, it will then be diagnosed as either the pedestal, my head connector, or somewhere around the power box next to the power cord reel.

[Guest Ray Davis]

Seems like a good plan,  replacing the IOTA.

Let us know how it goes.

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, LJPierce_ELY said:

I've been mucking around for the past hour and a half, of course with the occasional break for morning coffee.

And I think I've managed to possibly get myself even more confused as I go along to the point that I'm thinking RV electrician.

I am attaching 2 pictures. Both of which should look familiar to the knowledgeable peeps on here.

The gray one is, of course, the left side breaker box in the bedroom. The second, brown one, is where the intellitec board was indeed found. (I looked carefully at that board, it's a Model 760) and it looks fine. No burned smells coming from the box and no scorched earth policy undertaken by the imaginary gremlin sharing my living space.

Several things I've found.

First off. The gray panel.

Breaker 2, shuts off circuits as advertised, Test trip button also tripped the breaker, as advertised.

Breaker 3, 3rd from the bottom, Inverter L1, when tripped, does nothing. No change to power status and no circuits noticed as turning off. (Don't jump to a conclusion yet, please read on.)

Breaker 5, no change. (If you will recall, using the microwave/convection was the original cause of this whole mess)

Breaker 6, 6th from the bottom, Inverter L2, when tripped, appears to shut off the remaining AC outlets but does NOT turn off the front roof mounted A/C (air conditioner)

Breaker 7, does nothing when tripped (Kitchen AC plugs which aren't working right now because of the main problem) That being said, I attempted to trip it via the GFC test button and it did NOT trip.

Now, onto the Brown Panel.

Inverter L1 breaker when tripped shuts down the currently working A/C plugs. (On the gray panel, shutting off L1 did NOTHING)

Inverter L2 breaker when tripped has no apparent effect anywhere. (On the gray panel it shut off some A/C plugs)

So, what I have found here is that between the 2 panels, on the Gray panel L1 does nothing but on the brown panel L1 shuts things off. As for L2, on the Gray panel shuts things off, but on the brown one, it does nothing.

Also, Breaker 7 might have a problem unless it's normal that at GFC breaker won't trip when pressing the test button, if there is no power to that circuit.

So, in final, what does the above stuff tell us?

 

 

I started this and QUIT....

Richard and WaterSkier....HELP ME OUT WITH THIS and COMMENT...

First, The Gray Panel is a SUB Panel....as pointed out.  The main power comes in from the BROWN PANEL.

IF you have successfully measure voltages with the FLUKE....I am going to have you do some MORE...

POWER OFF (SHORE and GENNY TRIPPED and Solar covered).

Remove the covers from the IOTA, the BROWN (EMS) and GRAY (Sub).

Follow my post and RESET THE EMS.  THAT IS THE FIRST THING.... 

NOW.....STOP and tighten every lug or screw you see inside the IOTA, Brown and Gray.  LOOK FOR HOT SPOTS OR BURNS......this is PM....and you need to do it.....

Next....put power back on from SHORE....

ANY CHANGE? WHAT is the EMS Reading? HOPE THAT FIXES IT....but we need to KNOW what is going on now.

IF NOT....then we need voltage measurements the following

IOTA INCOMING (Shore) line

IOTA OUTGOING (Panel or LOAD) Line

MAIN incoming LUGS to the 50 Amp Breakers

Measure and let us know...

Line 1 Black - Line 2 Red should be 230 VAC

Line 1 Black - Neutral White as well as to Ground Should be 115 VAC

Line 2 Red to Neutral and Ground....see above. should be 115 VAC.

Neutral to GROUND - Should be ZERO.

OK....POINTS that baffle me....but opinions. I THINK you will see there there is NO WIRE connected to the Line 2 Breaker in the Brown Panel. This MIGHT have been a spare for use with TWO Inverters. IF YOU ONLY HAVE ONE....then the Line 1 Inverter breaker is going to the TRACE..  If you have something on the Line 2 Breaker, then GOD ONLY KNOWS....

Richard and WaterSkier.....AGAIN....I am Baffled by the oversized Sub Panel.

There are ONLY TWO 115 Vac Circuits from the TRACE....UNLESS HE GOT TWO TRACES?

ALL....The age of the GFCI breakers, based on Fred White (our deceased WIndsor expert) is PROBABLY any issue.  Fred had to replace his and finally got mad and pulled them out. The GFCI Receptacles go BAd...DON'T know about the breakers....but I have had to replace SD GFCI breakers at home...but the were constantly TRIPPING....

I will reach out to Chuck, another Windsor expert.....

BUT....7 CIRCUITS OK....here goes.....pure speculation...

Breaker 2. AHA....that means that ONE of the TWO Trace outputs is WORKING.....

Breaker 3. BEATS ME....With the cover OFF....does it have an outgoing or branch circuit....or it is JUST A SPARE with nothing.  YOU TELL US!

Breaker 5. MY GUESS....there is a TRACE ISSUE...or MAYBE...a LOOSE WIRE in the panel. IF Monaco did this like MOST OTHER COACHES....they took the Second 115 Line from the TRACE and split it.  

One side went to Breaker 5....which is the Microwave.  No incoming power....no juice....

The OTHER side (split feed) went to Breaker 7. They protected the Kitchen outlets, per code.

SOOOOOO  IF you only have ONE output or one line working from the TRACE, it is the REAR.  That would explain Breaker 2.

Next up....Breaker 6. This is a NON INVERTER circuit....it goes to OUTLETS that are NOT powered when the Inverter is ON. They will work with the GENNY, obviously.

You did NOT mention the icemaker....Does the Refer Outlet in the back of the refer area have POWER to the Icemaker or not.

That's about as FAR as I can go with what I know....or even suspect.

CONCLUSIONS? more like SWAG or Theories.

The EMS got funky.  There was some sort of blip. The EMS clock needs to be RESET per the procedure....so that you are showing FULL (50 A) power.  IF that is STILL bad and the incoming voltages are OK, then call M M RV Electronics in Ohio City, Ohio. They are our experts. They are the Intellitec Tech Support.  You MAY have an issue with the REMOTE (they go bad) or the board itself.....That is way past me...

SECOND....BUT, even IF you had a blip or even if you only have ONE LEG (Line 1) from the IOTA....then the Inverter should work. There is ONLY ONE 115 VAC Incoming LINE.  The ATS inside the TRACE put out TWO 115 VAC lines. Basically, you have a 30 Amp INPUT....and you get TWO 15 Amp Outputs. You are Loosing or MISSING that leg.  

Internal to the TRACE?  NO IDEA.

BUT, you CAN start to measure voltages in side the panels... You MAY find that you have SPARE Breakers doing NOTHING

let us know........

[LJPierce_ELY]

Now that is detailed.

Let me get the IOTA replaced and go from there. I already know it's bad because it won't switch over to Generator power.

I'm reducing my overnight power usage to just the Air Cond. and a couple of fans to minimize power usage until I can get the IOTA replaced tomorrow and I'm hopeful that will take care of the problem. If not, then everything will be tightened and I'll start with the above tests.

When I went and got the replacement ATS today, the parts guy at the dealer in Reno was shocked that there was still an IOTA in use. I asked him if he wanted it for a museum of what not to do, but got the impression he'd much prefer me to just take it out and use it for target practice. I will oblige.

Does anyone have a schematic of how those IOTA's are wired? I'd like to be able to easily tell what wire goes to what without having to unravel spaghetti.

A thank you in advance AND for everything else that's been typed on this.

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

43 minutes ago, LJPierce_ELY said:

Now that is detailed.

Let me get the IOTA replaced and go from there. I already know it's bad because it won't switch over to Generator power.

I'm reducing my overnight power usage to just the Air Cond. and a couple of fans to minimize power usage until I can get the IOTA replaced tomorrow and I'm hopeful that will take care of the problem. If not, then everything will be tightened and I'll start with the above tests.

When I went and got the replacement ATS today, the parts guy at the dealer in Reno was shocked that there was still an IOTA in use. I asked him if he wanted it for a museum of what not to do, but got the impression he'd much prefer me to just take it out and use it for target practice. I will oblige.

Does anyone have a schematic of how those IOTA's are wired? I'd like to be able to easily tell what wire goes to what without having to unravel spaghetti.

A thank you in advance AND for everything else that's been typed on this.

 

 

I posted a schematic in one of the posts.

The IOTA is plainly marked when you take off the cover.  Just follow the wiring.  I am really on the fence about this.

I have LOST the flow and train of thought....so I went back...

FIRST....you probably DO have a BAD ATS. The key is the AC now working. The AC's are NOT part of the INVERTER circuit. Line 2 or the RED leg is GONE. That is why you do NOT have an AC.  That I can reliably SAY IS A FACT. 

The fact that the Genny is not switching is also a good sign.

WHILE you are changing out the IOTA, do the RESET of the EMS (remove the brown panel). YOU NEED TO DO THIS TO GET A FRESH START.

NOW....for the BAD NEWS.....  This is NOT gonna, IMHO, fix your Microwave and other power issues. The Inverter is being FED off Line 1 (from the BROWN Panel). It is SPLIT into TWO legs (YES....MONACO was STUPID....the LINE 1 and LINE 2 are confusing). UNLESS you have TWO inverters, then as long as you have SOME inverter power, then that single Line 1 coming into the INVTERTER is OK....but what has happened is that you do NOT have TWO OUTPUTS....

NOW if you DO have TWO TRACE INVERTERS....then if one leg to them is DEAD....then YES....the new ATS will fix that.

Put in the SWITCH. You will restore your AC and the Genny should work.

BUT, don't hold your breath on the rest.

NOW>>>>>>>>  READ THIS CAREFULLY.....

AFTER you install the IOTA, KILL THE MAIN PANEL 50 AMP BREAKERS......

THEN do the Voltage Testing that I outlined. Test the INCOMING (SHORE) and the OUTGOING (Panel or Load).

IF you have a BAD Pedestal or connections......like a FLOATING NEUTRAL, then you will damage or do MORE damage.

You MUST have the proper voltages on the SHORE and the PANEL.

Read one of my posts.

Line 1 to Line 2 - 230 VAC

Line 1 to Neutral (white) and then L1 to Ground should be 115 VAC

Same for Line 2 (red) to Neutral and Ground.

There should be ZERO Voltage from Neutral to GROUND....if you have a few millivolts, that is a meter "error"....but close to zero.

IF you do not get the 115 VAC to BOTH Neutral and Ground from Line 1 and Line 2, then STOP....you will cause more issues.

Sorry if this is confusing....but until you VERIFY the incoming power through the NEW ATS....then do NOT turn ON the main breaker.... 

 

[waterskier_1]

There has been a lot of info and speculation presented above, that I'm not going individually address.  Here are some observations.

First, if you say you have no 110 input on the Right Breaker (Main L2), then you should also not have the Rear A/C, Water Heater/AquaHot, and Washer/Dryer working.  Can you confirm this?

Next, if you do have 110 on the Left Breaker (Main L1), then you should have the refrigerator, Front A/C, and Block Heater working.  Can you confirm this.  

If the above is true, then you are not getting both sides of the 220 to the main breaker panel.  Troubleshoot this first, as all the other problems may resolve after this is sorted.  It could be anywhere from the pedestal, the connector, the wire, the transfer switch, or the wiring from the transfer switch.  Tom has given good advice on the transfer switch.  Since I believe your generator is not connecting either, I think I'd start with a new transfer switch.

Now for clarification, not necessarily troubleshooting (I believe the above with sort the problem), going off a 2002 Windsor Wiring Diagram (I don't have one for 2003, but think they are the same), you have what is called a "dual input, dual output" configuration for you inverter.  I can't talk to the specific inverter used, because the Manufacturer/Model number isn't specified.  But unless the inverter has been changed out by someone, you have both L1 & L2 going into the inverter, and also an L1 and L2 coming out of the inverter.  Before I explain the reasoning for Dual In/Dual Out, let me suggest that the L1 and L2 wires are crossed between the inverter and the Sub Panel.  This makes no functional problem, but confuses when troubleshooting.  Mentally remember they are crossed and that will help.  

Ok, the reason to use a Dual In/Dual Out configuration (many, maybe most) have this as an option, along with the far more familiar Single In/Dual Out configuration.  By using both sides of the 220, the loads that run through the inverter may be better balanced.  We typically see, especially on lower end units without a separate Sub Panel, that one output connects only to the microwave and the other output connect to all the outlets.  With a Single Input, that means at ALL circuits connected through the inverter (remember, even when on shore power all circuits that are designated to run off the inverter, must run through the inverter), are fed on one side of the 220 line.  With Dual Input, that load, when not actually inverting, can be balanced between L1 and L2.  When inverting, all are on the same inverter output (that is the inverter is 110 only, so L1 and L2 are connected together when the inverter is in operation, but that doesn't effect the input load balance, because there is no input when the inverter is running.

Ok, on to other things.  First, you should never connect a GFI outlet on a GFI breaker or other GFI outlet.   There should only be one GFI protection device per circuit.  Adding additional GFI devices will cause problems - remove any that you may have added in error.  

The wiring diagram doesn't clearly identify which circuit breaker in the sub panel are on which line (L1 or L2).  But if you don't have both L1 and L2 (as you stated you didn't above) then only the circuits that are connected to the line that you do have would be operational.  That's why you see some circuit breakers turning off some things, and others not.   As mentioned above, I think this will resolve once you get full 220 into the main panel.

As a test of the above theory (as if you don't have anything else to do) you could try disconnecting shore (and generator - but I think you said that won't connect anyway) and turning the inverter on.  The inverter should power all the circuits in the sub panel.  If it doesn't, I'd still wait until you get 220 into the main panel before continuing to troubleshoot.

I'm attaching the 2002 Windsor Inverter Wiring Diagram upon which I am basing my analysis.

2002_Windsor_Inverter.pdf

[LJPierce_ELY]

P

4 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

There has been a lot of info and speculation presented above, that I'm not going individually address.  Here are some observations.

First, if you say you have no 110 input on the Right Breaker (Main L2), then you should also not have the Rear A/C, Water Heater/AquaHot, and Washer/Dryer working.  Can you confirm this?

Next, if you do have 110 on the Left Breaker (Main L1), then you should have the refrigerator, Front A/C, and Block Heater working.  Can you confirm this.  

If the above is true, then you are not getting both sides of the 220 to the main breaker panel.  Troubleshoot this first, as all the other problems may resolve after this is sorted.  It could be anywhere from the pedestal, the connector, the wire, the transfer switch, or the wiring from the transfer switch.  Tom has given good advice on the transfer switch.  Since I believe your generator is not connecting either, I think I'd start with a new transfer switch.

Now for clarification, not necessarily troubleshooting (I believe the above with sort the problem), going off a 2002 Windsor Wiring Diagram (I don't have one for 2003, but think they are the same), you have what is called a "dual input, dual output" configuration for you inverter.  I can't talk to the specific inverter used, because the Manufacturer/Model number isn't specified.  But unless the inverter has been changed out by someone, you have both L1 & L2 going into the inverter, and also an L1 and L2 coming out of the inverter.  Before I explain the reasoning for Dual In/Dual Out, let me suggest that the L1 and L2 wires are crossed between the inverter and the Sub Panel.  This makes no functional problem, but confuses when troubleshooting.  Mentally remember they are crossed and that will help.  

Ok, the reason to use a Dual In/Dual Out configuration (many, maybe most) have this as an option, along with the far more familiar Single In/Dual Out configuration.  By using both sides of the 220, the loads that run through the inverter may be better balanced.  We typically see, especially on lower end units without a separate Sub Panel, that one output connects only to the microwave and the other output connect to all the outlets.  With a Single Input, that means at ALL circuits connected through the inverter (remember, even when on shore power all circuits that are designated to run off the inverter, must run through the inverter), are fed on one side of the 220 line.  With Dual Input, that load, when not actually inverting, can be balanced between L1 and L2.  When inverting, all are on the same inverter output (that is the inverter is 110 only, so L1 and L2 are connected together when the inverter is in operation, but that doesn't effect the input load balance, because there is no input when the inverter is running.

Ok, on to other things.  First, you should never connect a GFI outlet on a GFI breaker or other GFI outlet.   There should only be one GFI protection device per circuit.  Adding additional GFI devices will cause problems - remove any that you may have added in error.  

The wiring diagram doesn't clearly identify which circuit breaker in the sub panel are on which line (L1 or L2).  But if you don't have both L1 and L2 (as you stated you didn't above) then only the circuits that are connected to the line that you do have would be operational.  That's why you see some circuit breakers turning off some things, and others not.   As mentioned above, I think this will resolve once you get full 220 into the main panel.

As a test of the above theory (as if you don't have anything else to do) you could try disconnecting shore (and generator - but I think you said that won't connect anyway) and turning the inverter on.  The inverter should power all the circuits in the sub panel.  If it doesn't, I'd still wait until you get 220 into the main panel before continuing to troubleshoot.

I'm attaching the 2002 Windsor Inverter Wiring Diagram upon which I am basing my analysis.

2002_Windsor_Inverter.pdf 132.55 kB · 0 downloads

I can confirm rear Air water heater, tv and dvd above front and a/c plugs on curb slide are inop.

I also confirm Front roof air, fridge and roadside plugs are working on that slide also working. 

I am in the middle right meow of yanking the IOTA ATS. Although I found no scorching like I've seen, I did find the plastic above the Generator relay to have been heated and bowed upward. So I think it safe to presume that the IOTA is at least bad on the generator side.

Once I get the new ATS installed, I will advise. Should still be a couple hours. Hopefully less. It's too hot to be doing this madness.

[LJPierce_ELY]

Well, the replacement ATS is allowing the generator to work and everything that was dead, is back. Including the rear Air Conditioner and microwave.

The A/C display is now lighted and doing it's thing however,  the RC7 remote control is still dark so I still have a problem with something.

Now, I'm going to shut off the Air Conditioners and then shut down the Generator. Hopefully everything will come back on using shore power. We shall see.

[jacwjames]

My inverter is located very close to the transfer switch.  You might want to make sure that you didn't hit the off switch on the inverter.

I did that about 11-12 years ago and finally found the problem, simply hit the on switch and it solved my problem.

 

[LJPierce_ELY]

39 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

My inverter is located very close to the transfer switch.  You might want to make sure that you didn't hit the off switch on the inverter.

I did that about 11-12 years ago and finally found the problem, simply hit the on switch and it solved my problem.

 

Nope. That wasn't it. It was either one, the other, or both of the following. Pedestal breaker, and/or POS IOTA 50R.

After I got everything done and put back together, I fired up the generator and everything worked, except the RC7. It's still dead. I then tried shore power and had nothing. Needless to say I got a little despondent.

But never fear, I sucked it up and went to start tracing back from the pedestal when the park owner came walking by and wondered what I was doing.

I told him and he checked the pedestal and found a breaker that wasn't resetting. Got that done and BAMMO, I got shore power everywhere including all the systems that were dead. (Except the RC7).

So, it was all the ATS, or a possible combination. In any event, I now have Generator power too so it was a win.

I got rid of that Arson Special IOTA.

Thanks everyone for the ideas and guidance. I don't think I would have accomplished this without y'all helping out.

Until the next post, keep the sunny side up and the greasy side Down.

Peace

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by LJPierce_ELY

[Dr4Film]

Go to the Inverter and unplug the data cable for the RC7-GS. Wait a few minutes then plug it back in. You might also spray some contact cleaner in the jack and on the RJ-11 plug.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

FWIW, there is a huge difference between the wiring of the 2002 and 2003 Windsor.  Added to that there were 2 different Windsor's with two different chassis manufactured by Monaco in 2003.   Date of manufacture will determine that.  In August of any given year, Monaco would bring out the next years model.  Therefore it's easy to get confused when trying to determine what the solution to any issue anyone has.  Chuck B 2004 Windsor manufactured in January 2004.  

[LJPierce_ELY]

18 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Go to the Inverter and unplug the data cable for the RC7-GS. Wait a few minutes then plug it back in. You might also spray some contact cleaner in the jack and on the RJ-11 plug.

I'll take care of that tomorrow. I'm feeling beat up from the feet up. It wouldn't surprise me if that works. Monaco put the inverter and the ATS is the same bay with the Gray and Black tanks. That just seems dumb. There is some blue corrosion in one of the unused jacks. I'll get in there and see if I can clean them out.

16 minutes ago, Chuck B said:

FWIW, there is a huge difference between the wiring of the 2002 and 2003 Windsor.  Added to that there were 2 different Windsor's with two different chassis manufactured by Monaco in 2003.   Date of manufacture will determine that.  In August of any given year, Monaco would bring out the next years model.  Therefore it's easy to get confused when trying to determine what the solution to any issue anyone has.  Chuck B 2004 Windsor manufactured in January 2004.  

Well, that figures. I always get something difficult.

[Tom Cherry]

15 hours ago, LJPierce_ELY said:

I'll take care of that tomorrow. I'm feeling beat up from the feet up. It wouldn't surprise me if that works. Monaco put the inverter and the ATS is the same bay with the Gray and Black tanks. That just seems dumb. There is some blue corrosion in one of the unused jacks. I'll get in there and see if I can clean them out.

Well, that figures. I always get something difficult.

Thanks to WaterSkier_1 and Dr. Frank and Richard and all those that chimed in.  As I SAID, I can offer some theories but, as Dr. Frank says, we are MORE familiar with our own rigs....  So HERE GOES.....

The Print was the KEY.  Thanks to WaterSkier_1.  The Windsor matches, sort of, the way that Monaco did the 2008 Dynasties.....except they have TWO, I think, Inverters. The Trace is different than what we Magnum folks expect to see and the Subpanel complicates it. BUT, the PRINT resolves in my mind, what happened.

The ISSUE WAS, I think, the IOTA. The first clue was the "30" amp light. When the Intellitec EMS did not read 230 VAC between Line 1 and Line 2, then it defaults to 30 amp service as it assumes, and rightly so, that there is NOT two sides of 50 Amp service....Line 1 (Black) and Line 2 (Red). The IOTA had dropped a LEG or a Line. Doesn't matter WHICH, it only had ONE 115 VAC service.....so that Intellitec EMS worked.

NOW....That explains a LOT. If you look at the print that WaterSkier_1 supplied, then the TWO Breakers on the Main Panel (the Intellitec) NOW make sense. The Trace requires TWO separate INPUT AC inputs....which is what the Magnums require on the Dynasties....  

Look at the print again. There are TWO OUTPUTS to the Subpanel. That Subpanel, I THINK, is internally divided....

The Inverter 1 input powers Breakers 1 - 4.  The Inverter 2 Input powers Breakers 5 - 7...as there is NO Breaker 8.  The original symptoms were that the FRONT GFCI and the Microwave were out. SO, when the IOTA took out Line 2....which then became Inverter 2, that killed that.

Replace the IOTA with a good ATS and BINGO....all is well. NOW, at least to me, it makes sense.  I also learned a LOT about the Subpanels used in the older MH and see why Monaco switched to Magnums.....for the lower end. They are either 2000 Watt or 2800 Watt (with a Res Refer).  Dr. Frank's TWO Magnums have TWO incoming circuits....and then TWO outgoing. What makes his really UNIQUE is that there the Inverted power is one one side of the subpanel and the NON Inverter (goes dead when on Inverting) circuit are NOT battery powered.....

OK....this, I think, sums it up....but if anyone has any other pertinent comments....or corrections....please chime in.

NOW>>>>We Moderators always try to teach or at least make sure that folks learn and what is posted is correct.

I AM SUMMING UP A "SUGGESTED" To DO list for LJPierce_ELY.....the original poster.

You have, I think, learned a lot.....BUT, if you are a full timer and 100% DEPENDENT on your MH as your HOME....then, you need to be aware and, when convenient, address the following....

1. Consider a Surge Suppressor (HW50C) as UPSTREAM Protection for your NEW ATS....as well as all the electronics and appliances on board. IF you have a bad pedestal or a circuit problem and LOSE the Neutral or have a FLOATING NEUTRAL (Google that), then you can do several THOU$AND$ of $$ Damage.  We have had folks that hit $15K....they lost all the electric appliances....  THE HW50C protects you from that plus it also takes care and protects you from high and low voltages and such. IT protects the MH's Life's Blood....the POWER. I can NOT overemphasize this.

2. Purchase a SPARE Square D GFCI breaker and have it on hand. These go bad....or at least Fred White and many others had issues with them. You need to get the MODEL number off the one in use....

3. Plan a Preventative Maintenance session and TIGHTEN ALL THE LUGS on the Main Panel and the Subpanel.  Vibration from driving is your enemy. Loose connection will heat up and potentially cause a fire. This is common sense....you will be FINE for the next 5 years or so....AFTER YOU DO THIS...

4. If you did NOT USE LOCTITE GREEN on the lugs on the new ATS, then you will need to open it up and RETIGHTEN in 3 - 6 months.....THIS TIME USE LOCTITE as they will vibrate loose.  This is NOT the fault of any ATS, it is just the fact that when you drive, the ATS's screws will come loose.  ONCE RETIGHTENED WITH LOCTITE GREEN ON THEM, they should be good for a LONG TIME....  I have over 10 years and 50K on mine....with the Loctite and STILL TIGHT....but I check them...

5. When you do the PM on the Brown EMS Panel, do the reset to make sure it is "healthy"

6. Order a spare Camco plug and the Dow potting (sealing) compound. At the age of your plug, you will, I predict, eventually need it. MANY folks carry such....

OK.....GOT ALL THAT....now, here is ONE THING that we all learned at the GATHERING....

On the 5 BUTTON AC/Heat Thermostat, it is BETTER to use the MODE button and turn OFF each zone, rather than the slide switch at the bottom. These switches go out....so the less you use the slide switch, the better...

GOOD LUCK....

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Sounds good except for one thing, the 2004, 5, and 6 did not come with two inverters.  Why would Monaco waste money putting two inverters in a coach?  Chuck B 2004 Windsor

[Tom Cherry]

2 minutes ago, Chuck B said:

Sounds good except for one thing, the 2004, 5, and 6 did not come with two inverters.  Why would Monaco waste money putting two inverters in a coach?  Chuck B 2004 Windsor

Maybe I was unclear....what I meant was that the wiring diagram was "Similar" to how Monaco wired the Dynasties for use of a Sub Panel. I never understood that before and have helped folks, on site, work on theirs, but until Dr. Frank explained it yesterday, it was fuzzy.

What I tried to say is that the logic used in the WIndsor for the single, split output feed, was the same logic, to a certain extent, on the Dynasties....except they used a different Magnum from the run of the mill ones.  Did NOT mean to imply that the last Windsors had or were set up for dual inverters....

I learned a LOT and will get Dr. Frank to put the Windsor Print in the files....if it is not already there.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

There was no similarity about the 2004 Windsor.  It almost had the same features at the 2004 Dynasty, except for the tag axle.  Probably for the 2005.  Monaco brought out the Camelot to replace the Windsor to try to compete with other brands as far as vehicle cost was concerned. When Monaco did that, they cheapened the Windsor to push potential customers toward the Camelot.  Monaco finally realized that the they had too much of a product line to support.  Finances were getting tight heading Monaco toward bankruptcy.  We all know the rest of the story.  

My information came from the Monaco reps that attended the MI rallies.  I was there back then and experienced that. 

Chuck B 2004 Windsor

[waterskier_1]

3 hours ago, Chuck B said:

Sounds good except for one thing, the 2004, 5, and 6 did not come with two inverters.  Why would Monaco waste money putting two inverters in a coach?  Chuck B 2004 Windsor

Monaco did install two inverters on many coaches.  It wasn't (and likely still wouldn't be) a waste of money, because there were no readily available inverters that could handle an all electric coach.  

 

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

I was not aware that Monaco built a all electric Camelot or Windsor.  Chuck B 2004 Windsor