Time to Replace Norcold 1200?

[Dr4Film]

18 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Details Man, details!  This last trip was 12 hrs driving then 100% boondock, then 21 hrs home.  Not even cell service, AT&T or Verizon!  Yes, I could have run the generator on the road . . . . at $1.50 / hr (it's more the principal than the cost). 

A major issue would be removing the old 1200 out of the coach.  Physical muscle is hard to come by, I don't have access to a fork lift and no idea how to remove a window (which is probably the easiest part), but replacing the cooling unit inside the coach is within my grasp.

I don't run the generator UNLESS it is SO hot & humid outside that the dash AC can't keep us cool and comfortable while driving. The Inverter powers the fridge to keep it at temperature while driving and also while parked. When the set of house batteries get to 50% SOC then the AGS kicks in and starts the generator to charge the batteries back to Float SOC.

Plus when boondocking we never run the microwave, coffeemaker, hair dryer, shop vacuum or anything that draws a lot of amp's on the Inverter/batteries. Just not good for the device or the batteries. So we will start the generator when using those devices. Any time the generator is running the house & chassis batteries are being charged.

I always say, "do as you want, whatever makes you a Happy Camper", however I will always correct people who are misinformed about generator usage and boondocking with a residential fridge. As I stated previously, I can boondock right alongside with the best boondockers out there and still enjoy the benefits of having a residential fridge to keep our food fresh and cold and our frozen foods REALLY frozen. And do all of that WITHOUT having to run the generator 100% of the time.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Nothing is being said about the Norcold class action law suit.  We full-time for 8 years with a Norcold 1200 LRIM frig.  Looking back, the biggest expense was the numerous trips to the grocery store for food because the Norcold was limited in space to hold only a few days supply.  I posted all the so called fixes to try to keep it running safe.  If I had to do it all over again, the Norcold would have been the first thing I would push out the front door.  I was able to recover some of the expense by attaching my name to the class lawsuit.  Chuck B 2004 Windsor

If you had a Norcold (certain models etc) you could opt into the lawsuit. Since my Norcold (which failed twice) was one I joined. The payout was somewhere around $1100, payable July 1st every year for three/four years. This was the final check of $113 plus some change

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

This is what the judge said about the recall, 

Last week, after four years of waiting, Judge Stanton approved a newly structured $36 million deal. “The Court finds the settlement to be fair, reasonable, and adequate,” she wrote, “and accordingly OVERRULES all objections and GRANTS final approval of the settlement.” This authorization came with a 25% allocation of the gross payment to the attorneys and an “aggregate repair or replacement cost” of up to $7,500 to each of the named plaintiffs. The agreement states that on average the owners of the 1200 Series will be getting $824 and the N6 and N8 owners will receive $164 each. Kurtzman Carson Consultants, the claims administrator, is slated to receive $2 million.

The initial recall of Norcold’s 1200 model was limited to a small batch, but has since been expanded to all 1200, 1201, 1210 and 1211 series refrigerators so that a “High Temperature Sensor” can be installed to prevent a fire from spontaneously igniting. According to the Thetford Corporation’s recall website, “Even if your refrigerator was repaired as part of a previous recall, it is necessary to have it repaired again to minimize the risk of injury or death due to fire.” Consumers with a defective Norcold product have been advised to turn off their refrigerators and contact the company immediately.

Source: http://consumerwatch.com/

[Bob Jones]

7 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

My NotSoCold went out through the passenger side salon window and the Samsung came in through the same window. Easy Peasy!

 

Sure...now where did I put that forklift...? I had it just the other day! 🙂

[cbr046]

Absorption cooling unit replacement - JC Refrigeration or RV Cooling . . . which is better and why?

JC Refrigeration https://jc-refrigeration.com/product/norcold-1200-gas-elect-unit/  $1095 + $250 shipping

RV Cooling https://rvcoolingunit.com/1200-Norcold-Brand-New-Cooling-Unit-built-by-the-Amish-P13259.aspx $1155 + $? shipping

They both use thicker tubing and same number of (re-absorption?) coils.

- bob

[Bob Jones]

If you're going that route I would suggest stepping up a little further to the Helium filled units. Your fridge will be lighter! 🙂

[cbr046]

7 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

If you're going that route I would suggest stepping up a little further to the Helium filled units. Your fridge will be lighter! 🙂

Fire free but not for the sunny South!  If the temp doesn't kill you the humidity will!

- bob

[birdshill123]

Back  when everyone was having Norcold problems many users did a fan install. 3 computer fans were installed  under the roof top vent.  This provided the proper air circulation. If you go to the irv2 Monaco site there are pictures 

 

[Dr4Film]

18 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

Back  when everyone was having Norcold problems many users did a fan install. 3 computer fans were installed  under the roof top vent.  This provided the proper air circulation. If you go to the irv2 Monaco site there are pictures 

 

I did that back in 2010 while up in Alaska. I used four 120mm fans at the top of the roof vent. Plus I had a switch where I could override the snap disk that turned the fans on and off. After a while I had the fans on 24/7.

I later sold the fan fixtures to a RV owner on eBay.

Photo below.

[birdshill123]

That is the fan system ! I remember posters being very pleased with the result.  I mentioned this because the op was adamant in not wanting a house fridge

[Tom Wallis]

Update: In a previous comment I stated that I had ordered a cooling unit from RV Cool in AR and after a long wait it still hadn't arrived. Well it finally arrived after about a month. I've installed it and so far it seems to be working fine. At this point I have no complaint with the product just the service.

[Joe Lee]

It’s my turn to be dealing with a failed Norcold 1200 LRIM. Just read all the insights from this topic. I didn’t see any 2023 comments. 

I’m a full-timer and enjoy boondocking. 

Does anyone have any new recommendations for me as I deal with this issue?

Thanks!

Joe

Edited July 29, 2023 by Joe Lee

[Tom Cherry]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:58 AM, Dr4Film said:

I did that back in 2010 while up in Alaska. I used four 120mm fans at the top of the roof vent. Plus I had a switch where I could override the snap disk that turned the fans on and off. After a while I had the fans on 24/7.

I later sold the fan fixtures to a RV owner on eBay.

Photo below.

I had missed this post.  I had, from the get go, insufficient....for US and especially, DW, cooling on our Dometic 1402.  Another member had purchased a "box version" of a Fantastic Roof fan.  He fabed up a quick mount and added a thermostat.  I did the same.  I also found a LOWER ON snap disk for the "fin disc thermostat" that Norcold and Dometic both use to power the internal (PUNY) fans.  I THINK I remember your solution...

Thanks for posting....

[jacwjames]

Do you have a furnace under your Norcold?

There have been more recent posts on the debate on whether to go residential.  Do some searches and while you are at it do some searches on the failure of the retrofitted Norcolds, I've been reading more and more of that issue.

I installed my Samsung in 2019 but it didn't get a real test until 2021, was very pleased while parked in +100F temps full sun on that side and the fridge stayed right at the set temps.  Made ice the whole time, but I was not boon docking at that time but during that trip I probably boon docked 80% of the time.  Really didn't see a big increase in generator time, I do have 325 solar.  If I had 1000 watt I could probably get by with no generator time.  Don't regret the decision, should have done it sooner.  Just the savings in food waste probably pays for generator time.

 

[Dr4Film]

Replacing a NotSoCold with a residential is probably the most discussed topic on this forum. There are literally hundreds of posts and threads regarding how to do it.

Start by searching using various Key Words and spend as much time as you want reading and viewing photos.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Joe Lee said:

It’s my turn to be dealing with a failed Norcold 1200 LRIM. Just read all the insights from this topic. I didn’t see any 2023 comments. 

I’m a full-timer and enjoy boondocking. 

Does anyone have any new recommendations for me as I deal with this issue?

Thanks!

Joe

@Joe Lee  OK....I edited this AFTER reading the two above....here is  BEST way to read about a topic, other than idly scrolling, is to use the Search Box in the upper right.  NORCOLD would be the search term.  Then click on the EVERYWHERE and select TOPICS....  That will bring you more reading than you want to do...  I did it for you, but you can do it in the future.  Explaining that always helps others...and it is INVALUABLE...go here....

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?q=norcold&quick=1&type=forums_topic

539 posts....22 pages of reading...  OK...OVERWHELMED....YES.  But I do this many times for information....

However...a direct answer.  You have the SAME RIG as our belated founder Fred White. I talked to him often and helped or learned from his posts.  He was a retired Mechanical Engineer with a brilliant, but practical mind.  He worked or was the expert of "Torpedo Motors"....

SO, here is what he did as well as what has transpired over the years and after his untimely death...  BTW...he WAS a fulltimer, maybe not that much into BoonDocking...but we have folks here that are....so a "combined" or synopsis of his issues and what we know...for a FACT...

• He tried the Amish....bad install...new install.  GAVE UP.  Put in a Samsung.  He decided to add a separate inverter.  That was sort of a "Tossup".  There MAY have been some Wiring issues.... as in, maybe he did NOT have an Inverter receptacle for it to run off the Inverter.  NOW that I think on it and go back to a recent Windsor issue where I helped OFFLINE.  You do (should) have a Icemaker breaker on the subpanel, not the Main Panel....that one is for the HEATERS...so you are ahead of the game....verify... I actually posted this and this should be what you have.  We needed to know how the SubPanel was configured...so you are ahead.
• He installed an Inverter, based on a lot of comments back then.  Afterwards, it was "OK" and a few still do it.  The additional Inverter will give you FULL output (2000 Watts) from your inverter.  SO, if you boondock and eat up the juice....you have the OEM 2000 watts and not feeding the Res Refer.  BUT, the tradeoff...IT WILL quickly suck down your batteries....
• MOST use the Inverter (2000 Watts) AS IS and run the Res Refer off the Icemaker receptacle.  NOW, they also SWAP OUT the interior Halogen lights for LED.  THAT IS A MUST...  Some get rid of their Fluorescent tubes and retrofit with LED strips.  SOME to save power...others because the ballasts get old...and send out RFD noise that messes up things or they get OLD and they start to consume WAY MORE juice.  
• MOST agree that a good bank of 4 House Batteries will easily run a Res Refer for 24 hours, but you will need to run the Genny for maybe 2 - 3 hours....daily.  NOW, that eventually, if you did it for several weeks will not get the batteries back to 100% SOC.  When you are on SHORE or GENNY, FULL TIME, it takes about 24 hours total to actually "TOP THEM OFF".  BUT, I did the switch and measured usage... as did many here and some RIP did.  The once per day RULE OF THUMB works...  BUT, if you have an energy hog issue from another device....keep that in mind.
• BTW....I prefer, as others do, Trojan T105's and we get 7 - 8 PLUS years.  We exercise, as drain down to 50% for three cycles, them about every 5 -6 months.  We meticulously maintain them and use Battery Miser Caps and rarely add more than ONE FL OZ per cell for each discharge.  Someone that Boondocks with regularity will do that....so you should be OK there.  Just us "GOTTA HAVE SHORE" folks....
• The issue of installation has more to do with SPACE.  Some have a Furnace.  Many FOLKS have retrofitted a Res Refer, Samsung, into the Windsor.  Read the topics for specifics...
• There are TWO THINGS that are mandatory.  REMOVE ALL INSULATION.  The insulation around or on the Norcold was for safety as well a keeping the MH from loosing conditioned air.  A RES REFER is different.  It MUST have AIR CIRCULATION around it.  DO NOT put some facade or fascia to seal the Res Refer up....gaps on the side are a MUST...as well as TOP and BOTTOM...
• The SECOND MANDATORY.  You have a ROOF vent.  SEAL IT OFF with Insulation.  You have an external lower access hatch. IT MUST BE SEALED and INSULATED.  That is the REMOVABLE PANEL....not taping it on.  I and many just put a layer of Duct Tape (or HVAC Foil) on the INSIDE to block off the louvers...and if you have SIDE louvers in the frame....the same.  THEN we stuff in styrofoam strips (cut with a serrated bread knife) or RAW Pink insulation.  NO SPECIFIC DESIGN.  You have to add enough R value to that cover so it is close to the sidewall's R value.  On the finished product, on the rear, you mummy wrap it with several thicknesses or Foil HVAC tape.  OBVIOUSLY...the latches must be functional.  Not tough at all.  If you DO NOT DO THIS and camp when the temp drops below 32, the Res Refer will quit.  The NEW Energy Standard Regs now limit how hot or how cold the ambient can be.  You CAN buy an ALL WEATHER Res Refer.  That is for folks with a cold, unheated garage or outbuilding or back porch.  The Samsung tech says he gets dozen of reports of "IT WON'T RUN" every winter as the old, often discarded but used, res refer and freezers would run at about any extreme.  NOT SO....
• ALWAYS use the ENERGY SAVER setting and TURN OFF the icemaker when boondocking....

That's the 2023 latest and greatest.  Others may or have already chimed in....but this is the synopsis of what we know for a fact and experience...

 

 

2002 & 2003 Windsor Sub Panel Circuit.pdf

[cbr046]

@Tom Cherry, I think you summarized that very well.  👍

FWIW, our home Samsung fridge (RF28) gave up the compressor after some recent storms and power outages.  It's 7 years old with a 10 yr warranty on the compressor.  According to https://www.youtube.com/@bensappliancesandjunk Samsung will cost the owner in small repairs - sensors, boards, icemaker, etc.  "Ben" likes GE's reliability.  Our local appliance repair guy (that we really like) likes Whirlpool, which is still built in the US.  I think he liked Frigidaire also, but can't say I remember that right. 

So if you go residential you might consider durability and reliability vs "Samsung".  And, of course, the energy efficiency of the new unit and whether it requires a pure sine wave (PSW) or modified sine wave (MSW) for it's power.  AppliancesConnection.com does a GREAT job of listing physical sizing and specs.  Their prices are great too, but it'll take a while for delivery as they drop ship from the manufacturer.

I boondock almost exclusively so when our Norcold failed I found a similar Dometic . . . . but it doesn't do well in the Summer at all.  I still need to work on some things, especially some extra fans.  It is what it is (for now). 

- bob

[Joe Lee]

I just found a NorCold Ultraline 12 cu ft refrigerator at Camping World. As I’m in a hurry to fix it, I’m taking a look because the parts dept said it was a direct replacement. (Of course, they didn’t specify the dimensions on the website). 
 

Has anyone had any luck with this unit?

Of course I’m very concerned that this unit will still have all the past issues of my old 1200 NRIM. The staff at Camping World either didn’t know or wouldn’t say. 
 

 

[cbr046]

7 minutes ago, Joe Lee said:

I just found a NorCold Ultraline 12 cu ft refrigerator at Camping World. As I’m in a hurry to fix it, I’m taking a look because the parts dept said it was a direct replacement. (Of course, they didn’t specify the dimensions on the website). 
 

Has anyone had any luck with this unit?

Of course I’m very concerned that this unit will still have all the past issues of my old 1200 NRIM. The staff at Camping World either didn’t know or wouldn’t say. 
 

Consider a "dorm room" type fridge while you take your time making a decision.  It was in the way but we survived for months with a dorm type fridge between the sink and shower while we found our bargain Dometic (it was new, taken from a camper that went residential).

https://www.amazon.com/BLACK-DECKER-BCRK25B-Compact-Refrigerator/dp/B01DZQI70K/

or even this - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Y244WP3/ . . . . which I'm considering next to the drivers seat for cold drinks on the go.  Runs on 12V, too.

- bob

 

 

- bob

[Joe Lee]

I just found a NorCold Ultraline 12 cu ft refrigerator at Camping World. As I’m in a hurry to fix it, I’m taking a look because the parts dept said it was a direct replacement. (Of course, they didn’t specify the dimensions on the website). 
 

Has anyone had any luck with this unit?

Of course I’m very concerned that this unit will still have all the past issues of my old 1200 NRIM. The staff at Camping World either didn’t know or wouldn’t say. 
 

Thoughts?

Cbr046 - Bob, I really like the mini fridge for drinks on the go!

[Tom Cherry]

35 minutes ago, Joe Lee said:

I just found a NorCold Ultraline 12 cu ft refrigerator at Camping World. As I’m in a hurry to fix it, I’m taking a look because the parts dept said it was a direct replacement. (Of course, they didn’t specify the dimensions on the website). 
 

Has anyone had any luck with this unit?

Of course I’m very concerned that this unit will still have all the past issues of my old 1200 NRIM. The staff at Camping World either didn’t know or wouldn’t say. 
 

Thoughts?

Cbr046 - Bob, I really like the mini fridge for drinks on the go!

Fool me Once….shame on you.  Fool me twice …..shame on me.  I have had a Norcold 1200 with bad door gaskets and never was aware of the fire issue.  But the gaskets were not replaceable.  That is why i would never purchase another Norcold.  Supposedly the transfer from the US to Mexico and the Mexican plant outsourcing the tubing and such and picking thr metric equivalent that was slightly thinner and perhaps did not meet the US metallurgy specs was the “reason”

Traded the Winnie, a high $$ gasser for a new Camelot.  Dometic 1402 never cooled quickly and if it was really hot outside….then bringing home a load of groceries and just loading would make it cool down enough to seriously melt ice cream….took forever to recover.  I installed a second exhaust fan and lowered the ON temp for more cooling.  Dometic told me that would seriously hamper boondocking…. Didn’t work.

I know the concerns abiut Samsung.  We have maybe lost 2 in the past years since it was the defacto standard for replacement.  The Norcold or Dometic can NOT possibly compete with cool down and performance of a compressor.  The new Samsung’s have lower consumption motors and are a bit more efficient.

I did my conversion circa 2015 or maybe 2016.  If it crapped out tomorrow, I’d spend $1100 and replace it,  I did buy the Lowes 5 year ext warranty….   A new Dometic was over $4,000….don’t kniw how much a new Norcold 1200 is.  To this day, no one that made the conversion has regretted it and most say they waited too long.

Your decision.  Your MH…. Your specific needs.  If I were in your shoes….and the Samsung or Fridgadair or whatever would work….and I needed more capacity, I’d seriously look at adding more batteries….and doubling my “without charging” time… maybe $1,200 for the batteries and fab and install.  So you spend upwards of $3,500 for new res and extra capacity….

BUT…that is me…..

BTW, the replacement for the 1200 is the Ultraline….on sale at CW for $4,65X….of course they are on clearance and you save almost $400…. Not going to be restocked or carried at CW. Maybe not the model they quoted you….but this is the “exact size and capacity” of the discontinued 1200….based on all the chatter.  Sounds about right as a replacement for my old Dometic, circa 2017 was well over $4,000 and I laughed.  I spent less than half that for a new 17 cf Samsung, with 5 year extended warranty and ultra nice install.  I had Lowes deliver to the shop…and they did the rest. Why are they being cleared out and not restocked???

 

 

[pulsarjab]

I installed the Frigidaire several years ago in our 2000 Diplomat. I just spent a week at Oshkosh, dry camping in a field with thousands of campers. With temperatures in the 90's, we would run the generator for air conditioners, in the afternoon, but never for the fridge. It does a great job and uses little energy. The fridge does not run continuously. I have a power monitor and have seen how little energy is used and how often. I have run it 24 hours without having to recharge the four Sam's Club 6 volters. Going down the road, it keeps things cold, makes tons of ice. At Oshkosh, we had four adults and four grand kids staying with us, with bunk bed cots and air mattresses. That's a lot of food. In the morning, family was running the microwave and Keurig coffee maker without the gen running. That is a huge power draw, not to mention computers, cell phone chargers, and occasional TV.

I know it is stated No Residential but I wanted to dispel the idea that it is an energy hog. After several hours of initial cool down, it cycles and the box is so well insulated, cycles are not that frequent. The more food stuffed in the box, the fewer cycles.

[Joe Lee]

Update on my Norcold 1200 problem:

1) With all your valuable ideas, I’m ditching the Norcold and getting a residential refrigerator. 
2) I have removed the old Norcold. That was as much fun as you would expect. 
3) Now, I’m going to have to rebuild the refrigerator bay by lowering the original shelf. Will have to move plumbing and  water lines for sure. 
4) Tomorrow, I’m going to decide between 110v residential and 12v dc RV. Seems the industry is pushing towards 12v DC. Does anyone have an opinion on the 12v refrigerators?  They are more expensive and I can only see the value of running the refrig without an inverter. Are there other benefits?

Thanks for the advice. I got in too much of a hurry and the advice to slow down was helpful. 
 

I’m  going to connect AppliancesConnections.com tomorrow for sizing as recommended. 
 

My thanks to all!

[jacwjames]

You should pick the fridge before installing a lower shelf to make sure you get the height right. 

No idea on 12 volt fridges but there seems to be more of a selection of 120 volt, just need to confirm inverter requirements  MSW or PSW.  

If you have deep deep pockets you can look at the Fisher Paykal, it is about the same height as the Norcold. 

[cbr046]

24 minutes ago, Joe Lee said:

4) Tomorrow, I’m going to decide between 110v residential and 12v dc RV. Seems the industry is pushing towards 12v DC. Does anyone have an opinion on the 12v refrigerators?  They are more expensive and I can only see the value of running the refrig without an inverter. Are there other benefits?
 

Just MHO, but 12V fridges are not common, meaning you get what's available.  Not many choices.  *AND* you'll need to run HD wire (I'm not going to guess the gauge) to run 10x the current of a 120V fridge. 

If it were me . . . . I'd install a dedicated inverter of a reasonable wattage (500W?) in the battery bay and use it to supply the ice maker plug in the refrigerator cavity.  If you ever need to replace the fridge you'll have lots of models to choose from. 

I can't find how much current a typical residential fridge actually draws. 

- bob