Recommendations on replacing both my Duotherm 13.5K AC/Heat Pump units

[Dr4Film]

3 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, I don't know if that is just a feature with propane forced air furnaces.

Like I said, I've tried to get mine to switch to Aqua Hot heat, unsuccessfully. Maybe there are dip switches in the heat pumps that need to be set for this to happen.

Have you checked the DIp Switch settings on each control board to make sure the Furnace Dip Switch is set to ON?

[96 EVO]

My AH works on furnace setting on the thermostat, so I assume they are turned on. 

Whether there is another switch in there that will go to furnace if there is a large temp difference and the heat pumps are not cutting it.... I don't know.

[Steven P]

23 hours ago, jacwjames said:

 

I did download the Micro Air manual, looks like it is pretty robust.  I will be traveling with some sort of hotspot so will have internet capability so as long as have access to a connection/internet I can communicate with the thermostat.  Like the idea of being able to change everything from the phone and being able to set up alerts, my wife as asking about some sort of system anyway so this takes care of two issues for ~$100 more.  

The microair also connects via Bluetooth if u don't have wifi. However, my phone needs to be fairly close to work.  

[jacwjames]

Well, the supply chain doesn't seem to be too much of an issue for me. 

I ordered the Penguin II from PPL on Oct 28th and 6 days later got a call from a trucking company that the units were there and they scheduled delivery for Nov 5th but I decided to just go ahead and pick them up on Nov 3rd. 

I ordered the Micro Air thermostat later on Oct 28th, it was shipped USPS priority mail and arrived Nov 3rd also.

Ordered new gasket sets from Amazon on Oct 28th and they arrived Nov 1.

Started the install on Wednesday and ran into a snag right off the bat.  After installing the drain cups on the rear AC and setting it in place I hand threaded 2 bolts in and used a small ratchet to screw in more and one cross threaded, YIKES.  Had a heck of a time getting it out because the nut portion which is some sort of insert nut into the sheet metal started to turn.   Only way for me to get it out was drill a small hole next to it from the top and use a pin to hold if from turning,  What a pain.  

One issue with this is I had to have the unit upside down for a period of time, which I know isn't good for a compressor I won't try to start for 48 hours.  My neighbor is an HVAC guy and he says I should be OK.   Thoughts????

It almost appears that the hole pattern on the new units is slightly larger as it is difficult to get the bolts aligned with enough clearance to get the bolts started. .  On the front unit I put the two front bolts in and then had to push the unit all the way forward to allow clearance for the rear bolts.  On the old units it wasn't a problem.   But either way I got the two units set and bolted down.

Got most of the wiring done and today will set dip switches, finish wiring, install thermostat.   Probably won't try to test until tomorrow.

[Steven P]

@jacwjames I ordered 2 Wed from PPL also and am calling the freight company today.  I guess I should've asked a couple more questions about the gaskets.  I assumed they came w the new heat pumps? From your post,, I guess they don't?  I replaced one of mine w one from Steele Rubber before and liked the quality of it.  How are the Amazon ones?

[Dr4Film]

Steven, the new AC's come with gaskets already attached to the bottom of the AC's. The additional gaskets Jim is referring to are the ones that are included with the drain cup kits.

https://tinyurl.com/y56y5jn6

[jacwjames]

Yes, the new AC were shipped with gaskets but if you add the drip cups you cut out a portion of that gasket to set the drip cups in place, seal around the hoses with silicone and then add another gasket on top of that. 

The gaskets I ordered from Amazon were similar to the ones that came with the AC units, slightly different material but look OK to me.  They were Camco 25071 universal 14X14" gaskets. 

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

Steven has a Diplomat.  I'm pretty sure he does not have those drain pans.  So anyone with a Diplomat or lower on the scale, the extra gasket and drain pans are not used.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Ray Davis

[jacwjames]

Successful test of AC's and thermostat. 

So finished the little bit of wiring I had to do and set the dip switches on the front AC, which is Zone 2 and has the furnace assigned to that zone.

Mounted the Micro Air to the wall. The little template thing that they use is pretty much useless. So I put a piece of painters tape across the back and marked the holed including the center where the telephone wire attaches. Put the tape across the location making sure it was aligned with the fairly small hole the phone cable comes out of, and put screws where the two attached points are. This worked much better then the cheesy thing they send with the unit.

The only trouble I had was getting my phone to sync with the thermostat. You need an internet connection and in the garage my phone does not have a signal. So I had to move my hotspot from the house into the garage, setting it at the door to get a good signal. I then tried to resync the phone with the thermostat, which worked, had to name the thermostat and that was it.

I tested the front AC first, tested fan functions first, then the heat pump, then furnace since it cold out. Both worked fine. The App for the phone worked great, pretty simple to understand what buttons to push and it was very responsive. Tested the signal inside and outside the coach and worked great. I then tested the rear AC, first fans, then heat pump. Worked great. 

I monitored the Amperage of the fans, low speed came in at 3 amp, slightly higher on medium and high speed. Amperage with high fan and heat pump was ~12-13 amp based on the EMS load meter, might have been slightly higher on the Progressive.

The thermostat is very easy to set up as long as you have internet connection. Phone screen is very easy to interpret. I'll play with the actual thermostat tomorrow but honestly, with as well as the phone works I'll be using that quite a bit. I can already envision me laying in bed on a cold morning, pulling my phone off the nightstand, and turning the temps ups.

I still have to put the metal slip joint in that ties the AC unit to the duct work, I wanted to make sure everything worked before finishing that up. I also have to put the shrouds back on both AC units, move the old units off the roof, and clean up the tools.

Hopefully I'll get a good chance to test everything on a trip I'm planning out west in the very near future.

[Steven P]

21 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

Steven has a Diplomat.  I'm pretty sure he does not have those drain pans.  So anyone with a Diplomat or lower on the scale, the extra gasket and drain pans are not used.

 

All true statements.  No drain pans for me.

@jacwjamescongrats!

[Mary & Glenn]

I'm surprised no one suggested a switch to Coleman Mack. From what I understand from speaking with Van, they are used in many of the higher end coaches. I also believe they are much quieter than the other manufacturers. I know my Duotherm's are really loud but they are also 20 years old. I though about replacing mine when I got home last month from a road trip to WI and MI to visit family but we rarely go places that we need AC and they work well enough still.

[Dr4Film]

29 minutes ago, Mary & Glenn said:

I'm surprised no one suggested a switch to Coleman Mack. From what I understand from speaking with Van, they are used in many of the higher end coaches. I also believe they are much quieter than the other manufacturers. I know my Duotherm's are really loud but they are also 20 years old. I though about replacing mine when I got home last month from a road trip to WI and MI to visit family but we rarely go places that we need AC and they work well enough still.

My friend who owns a Tiffin Zephyr has Coleman AC's and they require a different thermostat which requires completely different wiring versus what Dometic uses which is a Data cable to connect the AC's and thermostats together. I guess it could be done but I think it would require a lot of work and modifications to put it all together. Not sure how Coleman handles the remote sensors also.

[jacwjames]

Yup, the Penguin II AC units were pretty much plug and play with the older Duotherms that I had.    The Penguin II were on sale at PPL also, which was nice.   PPL did not have Coleman's in stock of a similar size. 

I had posted on IRV2 on options and someone posted that they had just installed Coleman's and had lots of problems, but did comment that customer support and parts were good. 

Yesterday I tested the Micro Air Easy Touch thermostat via internet, once I figured out how get it to connect it was pretty simple.  The instructions that they provide are not very clear.  The only way a Smart Device work is if the person trying to use them is smart enough to set them up.  Checking on the thermostat worked pretty good and it shows the inside and outside temps so you know if everything is working. 

Only trouble I had was that the Bluetooth connection seemed to drop out, didn't matter where I was, front or back near the thermostat.  Sent a question to the Micro Air Customer support, didn't have any real suggestions other then try the connection after 5 minutes. 

 

I also wanted to try and set up my Microsoft Go 2 tablet & Dell Laptop to use the the Thermostat but the App store would not let me download the app,   Gave me a message saying I had to associate the device with the account but that didn't work.  Has anyone tried to used a tablet or laptop with the Easy Touch thermostat?

 

[Wheelsnkeels]

Good information 

one item to note we just replaced both 20 yo old Penguins with new high capacity units for the same noise issue. 
in replacing the 5 buttons with the new CCC2 on our 2001 Dynasty it was plug and play for all Zone 1 functions Air, Heat pump, Furnace and Fans with the original cabling. 
 

However even though the CCC2’s are capable of 4 zones each it was not documented anywhere that each zone required its own controller. 
 

our coach has 3 zones for the Aquahot so each Air had a controller but zone 2 for bathroom furnace only in the rear was unrecognized. 
 

Turns out Monaco hid a 3rd 5 button controller in the coach just to control bathroom rear Zone 2 for Furnace. It was undocumented as to location and is different in each unit. 

after locating it and replacing it with the “New style CCC2 controller” everything works as before.

(ours was inside a false wall inside the overhead cabinet above the kitchen table against the refrigerator)

5 hours of unanticipated disassembly hunting the location  

Dometic Support seemed to not realize the need for the extra controller per zone as all it controls is a “Furnace” Zone for Aquahot 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Wheelsnkeels

[jacwjames]

Wow, interesting on having the 3rd hidden controller. 

I only have 2 zones and the front is the one that controls the furnace, just had to set the the dip switches on that unit to make that happen.

I was concerned about the Mircro Air thermostat, they said it was plug and play.  I'm a pessimist an figured it couldn't be that easy but it was. 

Connecting to the phone was a little harder but not bad.

Connecting via the internet was a little harder then the phone but it worked. 

Overall not a bad job.  Fortunately I had pretty access to the roof via my shop inside the garage.  So getting the AC up there and the old ones down was pretty easy with a hand dolly and ramp. 

[Steven P]

I ordered 2 new heat pumps from PPL last Wed and they arrived today.  My question is, how did you get them on the roof for the install?  120lbs each and me w no lift.  I've read about tying ropes and sliding up a ladder.  Other options?  Thanks 

[Happycarz]

Lean an extension ladder against the coach, padded of course. Don’t extend it much more than the roof line.
Leave the A/C unit in the carton and slide it up the ladder, over the end of the ladder onto the roof. 

Set the carton bottom against the ladder and try lifting/sliding it up the ladder. Once over your head, start climbing and pushing.

If that doesn’t sound good to you, have one person on the roof and with a rope tied around the carton. You push it up while he pulls it up. 
When sliding on the bottom of the carton it slides right up. Watch how you attach the rope, as to not crush the plastic cover.

[nvrtoofast]

I found getting the AC unit up is the easy part. Getting the old one down without chucking it off the top is more difficult.

 

A ladder and the box helps. Don't take it out till you're on the roof.

[Dr4Film]

Luckily I had a neighbor who had a Kubota with a bucket on the front. Two new ones in the boxes in the bucket first then slid those off. Put the old ones in the bucket and down they went.

Home Depot has an equipment rental business that may have a small portable lift that they rent for a few hours.

Otherwise I would enlist the help of a few people with ropes and a good strong ladder.

[jacwjames]

Got to love it when a plan comes together.

I built a 40X50X16' garage with a portion for the Windsor.  I then built a 23X26' shop inside the garage.  I made the shop with a structural roof on top. 2X10 floor joists 16" centers with a triple 2X12" center beam support in the middle with a 6X6" post, and used advantec 3/4" decking on top.  My main intent was to use it to store my wood supply, currently have 8 different species on top ~3000 bd ft.  

But it also give me easy access to the top of the motorhome, I used a couple or ramps and a hand dolly to move the new AC on top and the old ones now.  Worked great.  Working by myself I had to go up and down multiple times, got my exercise but made the project relatively easy.  

I'm glad to report that I have not had any problem with connecting to the thermostat via blue tooth.  Been working on the coach getting ready to travel so I've been turning off and on the heat pumps multiple times inside and outside the motor home, checking on the temps etc.  What a convenience. 

Word of Warning   >>>I did not measure the hole spacing on the new units but they seemed to be wider then the old one.  Last year I actually removed the AC's to replace the drip pans and install new gaskets,  and did not have any trouble installing the hold down bolts.  Piece of cake.

On the new units I had a heck of a time getting access to the holes, I actually cross threaded one the first one I tried to set and had a heck of a time getting it loose.  They use some sort of compression/friction nut in the sheet metal that started to spin.  I actually had to take the hold down bracket loose from below and pull it up past the return duct to be able to work on the AC.  Had to pull the shroud and the insulation block and blower cover to be able to pin the nut by drilling a small hole next to it and using a nail punch to pin it to be able to unscrew the bolt.  Ended up using a piece of threaded rod to hole that corner down. 

From then on I was really careful but on the front AC unit I lined up the bolt hole and put the long hold down bolt in and then I had to force the AC all the way to the front and still had a heck of a time getting the rear bolts to go in without cross threading them.