Refrigerator power ??

[BigNick]

A residential refridgerator has been installed. Works great but, I have to be on shore power or genset running to power it. I've gone to inverter power and verified both  plugs won't power up, they power fine otherwise. Any ideas?

Edited November 2, 2021 by BigNick
Word exit

[Gary M]

48 minutes ago, BigNick said:

A residential refridgerator has been installed. Works great but, I have to be on shore power or genset running to power it. I've gone to inverter power and verified both  plugs won't power up, they power fine otherwise. Any ideas?

So you are saying the inverter plug behind the “ not so cold” has no power?

[BigNick]

It has power when on shore or gen, no power on inverter 

2 minutes ago, Gary M said:

So you are saying the inverter plug behind the “ not so cold” has no power?

 

[Frank Bergamo]

Does anything else work on inverter? If not, check breaker on inverter.

[59Chriscraft]

That plug is not wired into the inverter circuit do to the drain on battery if you are off grid very long. I’m trying to figure out how to wire around that plug to be able to use the inverter while driving instead of running the generator.

[Gary M]

12 minutes ago, BigNick said:

It has power when on shore or gen, no power on inverter 

 

On my coach there were two receptacles. One for gen and shore and one on the inverter.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

You do NOT want to run a residential frig with a modified sine wave inverter.  Some members added a pure sine small inverter to run the residential frig on.

[Gary M]

6 minutes ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

You do NOT want to run a residential frig with a modified sine wave inverter.  Some members added a pure sine small inverter to run the residential frig on.

Ok more info please as I assume my ME 2012 is a modified and not a pure. And what is the reason for not using the modified.

Thanks 

[Dr4Film]

I have run my Samsung RF-197 residential fridge on a MSW Inverter for the past 9 years and it hasn't missed a beat.

Disclaimer - not all fridges will run OK on a MSW Inverter but they will run on a PSW Inverter.

The only two brands that I know will run fine using a MSW Inverter is Samsung and Fisher-Paykel.

[BigNick]

Thank you very much for all the great inputs!!  Its a great bunch of folks over here with a good deal of info, especially since it relates to our coaches specifically. I've had my coach for about 2 years and the learning curve it steep and expensive since the previous owners didn't maintain it correctly. 

I'm getting there a little bit at a time. 

3 hours ago, Frank Bergamo said:

Does anything else work on inverter? If not, check breaker on inverter.

The microwave/convection oven powers up on inverter.

3 hours ago, 59Chriscraft said:

That plug is not wired into the inverter circuit do to the drain on battery if you are off grid very long. I’m trying to figure out how to wire around that plug to be able to use the inverter while driving instead of running the generator.

I want know how to get it powered up too.

3 hours ago, Gary M said:

On my coach there were two receptacles. One for gen and shore and one on the inverter.

I've tried to power the refrigerator with both receptacles while in inverter, neither one will power it.

3 hours ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

You do NOT want to run a residential frig with a modified sine wave inverter.  Some members added a pure sine small inverter to run the residential frig on.

THIS,   so are you saying I need a small pour sine wave inverter behind the refrigerator just to power it?

44 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

I have run my Samsung RF-197 residential fridge on a MSW Inverter for the past 9 years and it hasn't missed a beat.

Disclaimer - not all fridges will run OK on a MSW Inverter but they will run on a PSW Inverter.

The only two brands that I know will run fine using a MSW Inverter is Samsung and Fisher-Paykel.

Good info here, I'm going to run this one down.

Edited November 2, 2021 by BigNick

[Ivylog]

21 minutes ago, BigNick said:

The microwave/convection oven powers up on inverter

What about your 120V outlets and TV? If not, on the side of the inverter are 2, hard to find, push to reset breakers…one may be tripped.

120V motors do not run as efficiently on MSW power… often it’s the controller electronic that do not like the MSW.

Samsung work well on MSW power because the compressor runs on DC current, not AC.

[David White]

Does your inside breaker panel have a separate breaker marked refrigerator or ref inverter? If so double check that it is set correctly.

Edited November 2, 2021 by David White

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Running on a modified sine wave inverter is a great excuse for a manufacturer to not honor their warranty.

Run your microwave/convection oven on a modified sine wave converter and listen to it complain.

[BigNick]

37 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

What about your 120V outlets and TV? If not, on the side of the inverter are 2, hard to find, push to reset breakers…one may be tripped.

120V motors do not run as efficiently on MSW power… often it’s the controller electronic that do not like the MSW.

Samsung work well on MSW power because the compressor runs on DC current, not AC.

The spec sheet for the 3012 calls it a "true sine wave inverter" which I believe is is the same as "pure"?  I actually am not completely sure which outlets are on inverter? I'm thinking I should go around and check?  I'm always powered by generator or shore power but, I would like to shut the gen down down while underway for the fuel savings and save wear and tear on the genset. I have been at the back side and checked those breakers before but not recently will check them.

29 minutes ago, David White said:

Does your inside breaker panel have a separate breaker marked refrigerator or ref inverter? If so double check that it is set correctly.

As far as I know there is only one CB for the refrigerator, I will poke my head in there and double check.

[Dr4Film]

14 hours ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

Running on a modified sine wave inverter is a great excuse for a manufacturer to not honor their warranty.

Run your microwave/convection oven on a modified sine wave converter and listen to it complain.

Chuck, I totally agree with your latter statement. Trying to use a microwave with ANY Inverter has not what I recommended for years.

However, Samsung honored my 12 month warranty when I submitted a claim after 7 months of use and they never asked what type of Inverter I had in my coach. They sent a service tech out to fix my problem which was a frozen Defrost Drain Line in the fridge compartment causing water to accumulate under the crisper bins.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Dr4Film

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

It is a possibility that the tech did not know or understand about the use of a modified sine wave inverter used in coaches.  

[Ivylog]

3 hours ago, BigNick said:

The spec sheet for the 3012 calls it a "true sine wave inverter"

Doubt a 03 Patriot has a 3012 inverter unless it replaced a 2012 MSW inverter that likely came in a 03 rig.

[BigNick]

11 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Doubt a 03 Patriot has a 3012 inverter unless it replaced a 2012 MSW inverter that likely came in a 03 rig.

No sir, it's a 3012, that being the case, most likely replaced... hey.. that rhymes..

[Steven P]

Like others above,  I have 2 receptacles behind the fridge and one is powered by the inverter.  If my GFCI in the bathroom trips, the fridge and some other outlets stop working, but my microwave still works.  Nick, if you have the old style outlets (see pic), you may want to change them out w a new one.   My GE fridge has been working fine for over a year on my MSW inverter. 

[miacasa_2000]

Take a step back and start at the beginning. Geny off and on shore power check the outlets if both have power then all the other components ( breaker, gfci, etc, ) are Ok. Which means your inverter is passing the ac on thru fine. Now unplug from shore and make sure inverter is in fact inverting and check again one receptacle should have no power ( fridge ac) the other (ice maker ac ) should . If not check your inverter.  If so get a proper tester and check the voltage while inverting thru simple process of elimination you'll get to the problem.

Roy  2003 Dynasty    

[jacwjames]

I had a problem with my electrical system this summer which forced me to dig into my entire electrical system, both inverted circuits and noninverted circuits.

What I found was that all my outlets were inverted except the one behind the refrigerator and the block heater circuit. 

Tracing the routing of the circuits was a nightmare since all the wiring is buried in the ceiling and or in or under cabinets.  The circuit I had problems with was the bedroom/bathroom circuit, which was protected by a GFCI breaker, but did not trip when it showed there was a dead short.   The only thing that gave me a clue as to a problem is that the generator would not run.  After I figured out which circuit it was I finally determined the routing of the wire, which was

Breaker>Bed outlets through the junction box in the rear engine compartment> Bedroom TV Cabinet>Bedroom base cabinet near washer/dryer> Bedroom Vanity Outlet>Commode vanity outlet>Basement  Outlet

The problem was in the ceiling between the breaker and the Bed outlets, meaning the entire circuit was bad.  To fix I ran a new wire to the Bedroom TV cabinet outlet which then fed the rest of the outlets and I was back in business.  I removed (cut back) the original wire going to the junction box in the engine compartment. 

Above sounds simple but took me ~4-5 days to figure out what was wrong and how to fix.  I had to completely remove the main service panel to repair but while I was at it I added a second inverter and rewired the 120 volt outlet behind the TV to be able to use the second inverter when I wanted to.

[bftownes]

When I had my 2001 Dip LE, I had a residential fridge installed after many Norcold failures.  The fridge had no power when traveling and lost very little of its cold when traveling from point "A" to point "B".  Boondocking would be another story.

[David Pratt]

Ok, I am stepping in here.

There has been to much MIS-INFORMATION and Confusing Information posted in the above threads.

Monaco started installing Residential Refrigerators in 2004 at the factory. Monaco also had the option on the Dynasty, Exec, Sig and Navigator to go all Electric and no Propane. They were using either TRACE or Zantrex model 2012 or 3012 MSW inverters. The Exec, Signature and Navigator also had the option of Dual Inverters. The standard Inverter was the Trace MSW and the option was PSW if you wanted it.

Every time some one posts about converting to a Residential Refrigerator the same discussions, Information and Mis-information is brought up. Do your research and read the MANUAL and Manufactures recommendations before installing the Refrigerator. Then ask question.

My 05 Exec has the Trace 3012MSW Inverter and a Whirlpool Residential Refrigerator. The Whirlpool has been operating just fine for the past Sixteen years on MSW with never an issue.

Samsung, Whirlpool, LG, Kenmore, Frigidaire, GE and Bosch and others  will all run on MSW Inverters with no issues. All these models consume less AMPs running on AC than the NOT-S-COLD does when running on AC.

The Coaches with Absorption Refer's have two AC outlets behind the Frig. One is connected direct to shore/generator power and the other is connected to the Inverter. When you install a Residential Refrigerator in your coach you should always plug the Refrigerator into the Inverter Outlet. The Inverter has a Pass Thru which allows the AC Current to pass directly into the coach when on Shore Power or with the Generator running and if the Inverter is on will allow the inverter to power up the coach when the shore Power is disconnected and/or generator is not running.

In the 16 years as Moderator and Owner of the Monacoers group I cannot remember anyone that had and issue with a residential refrigerator and the repair was turned down by the manufacturer because the refrigerator was in a coach or was operating on a MSW inverter.

If the Inverter is on and you are not connected to Shore power or have the Generator running you should have power to the Inverter AC outlet behind the Refrigerator.

Some of these old wives tales about residential refrigerator and MSW Inverters have been pounded to death for way to long.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

MSW electricity is just a less expensive way to generate.  I am a member of other RV groups.  On those groups their members have posted stories about their experience with MSW inverters.

My first Monaco coach was a 1998 Diplomat.  It's coach number was 0181749.  The 49 was the 49th Dip made.  I special ordered it.  Took over 6 months to be made because the government had priority on the Allison transmissions because they were used in the Humvee's.  It was the first Dip made with no slide and a booth dinette.

We went full time in it in November, 2002 when I retired.  We closed on our condo at 4pm.  We drove around the corner to a local Walmart to spend the night.  The next morning we started heading west to California to visit relatives we had not seen in over 3 decades.  We were welcomed because we brought our home with us.  In 2004 we traded for our 2004 Windsor.  We were full timers for 8 years.   We lived the life and enjoyed it.  

I have read reports where a MSW inverter destroyed electric clocks and heated blankets.  The average generator added more than 10 grand to the cost of a coach.  If I needed 120 vac, I started the generator.  

[David Pratt]

Clocks, Heated Blankets, coffee makers and PAP Machines are not refrigerators. And yes there has been conversations that some of the new digital appliances, such as I have mentioned do not play well with a MSW Inverter because they did not have the circuitry built into them to handle MSW.

Most appliances and electronics today do have those quality's built in. TV's, Audio/Video Equipment have for years or a lot of Motor Homes would have torched that equipment every time the coach was on the Inverter. Think about it!!!