Refrigerator power ??

[BigNick]

3 hours ago, David Pratt said:

Ok, I am stepping in here.

There has been to much MIS-INFORMATION and Confusing Information posted in the above threads.

Monaco started installing Residential Refrigerators in 2004 at the factory. Monaco also had the option on the Dynasty, Exec, Sig and Navigator to go all Electric and no Propane. They were using either TRACE or Zantrex model 2012 or 3012 MSW inverters. The Exec, Signature and Navigator also had the option of Dual Inverters. The standard Inverter was the Trace MSW and the option was PSW if you wanted it.

Every time some one posts about converting to a Residential Refrigerator the same discussions, Information and Mis-information is brought up. Do your research and read the MANUAL and Manufactures recommendations before installing the Refrigerator. Then ask question.

My 05 Exec has the Trace 3012MSW Inverter and a Whirlpool Residential Refrigerator. The Whirlpool has been operating just fine for the past Sixteen years on MSW with never an issue.

Samsung, Whirlpool, LG, Kenmore, Frigidaire, GE and Bosch and others  will all run on MSW Inverters with no issues. All these models consume less AMPs running on AC than the NOT-S-COLD does when running on AC.

The Coaches with Absorption Refer's have two AC outlets behind the Frig. One is connected direct to shore/generator power and the other is connected to the Inverter. When you install a Residential Refrigerator in your coach you should always plug the Refrigerator into the Inverter Outlet. The Inverter has a Pass Thru which allows the AC Current to pass directly into the coach when on Shore Power or with the Generator running and if the Inverter is on will allow the inverter to power up the coach when the shore Power is disconnected and/or generator is not running.

In the 16 years as Moderator and Owner of the Monacoers group I cannot remember anyone that had and issue with a residential refrigerator and the repair was turned down by the manufacturer because the refrigerator was in a coach or was operating on a MSW inverter.

If the Inverter is on and you are not connected to Shore power or have the Generator running you should have power to the Inverter AC outlet behind the Refrigerator.

Some of these old wives tales about residential refrigerator and MSW Inverters have been pounded to death for way to long.

Thank you David  and everyone else for your posts. 

Up to this point the only testing I have done was to move the refrigerator's plug from one receptacle to the other and check to see if the light is  on in the fridge while on inverter and of course, it is not. Lots of good information on this thread and I appreciate the time folks have taken to respond to my question. It seems to me the first thing I need to do is a proper test on the receptacle with a meter, easy enough. If there's power at one of the two receptacles while on inverter then its the fridge, if not, then its something up steam. Inverter, CBs, GFIs all of which are just a matter of digging in.

Not to change the course of the thread but as a point of reference, lately I've been digging into the transmission Allison MH3000,  as it hadn't had its 50k mile service, (changing of fluid and filters) that I know of,  and the coach has 55k miles. That is now finished and I have complete confidence, which is a good thing, I can move on. I've had the coach for about 2 years and I purchased it for a retirement gig, which is in 2-5 years. I've been slowly going through the different areas/systems I've identified as problem areas since I've owned it and working them over to a point of satisfaction to me.  I don't believe the coach was properly maintained or used over the course of its life. I find the more I use it, the better the systems function, i.e., it is not made for sitting around for too long.

[Hypoxia]

7 hours ago, David Pratt said:

Some of these old wives tales about residential refrigerator and MSW Inverters have been pounded to death for way to long.

I installed an Energy Star GE refrigerator on a MSW circuit a number of years ago.  In a couple of hours it burned out the evaporator fan motor circuitry which was integral to the fan motor.  I installed a replacement evaporator fan which did not have that energy star circuitry and it was fine.  Did the MSW cause it?  We'll never know for sure.

[Ivylog]

If you’re a amp counter. boondocker, a motor looses approx 10% efficiency powered by a MSW inverter. Instead of 8 amps DC (96 Watts) on a PSW inverter, a refrigerator on MSW power would draw 9 amps. Not that big a deal considering mine only runs 8-10 hours/day…a 10AH increase.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

This is definitely a not one size fits all situation.

[saflyer]

On 11/2/2021 at 2:09 PM, Dr4Film said:

I have run my Samsung RF-197 residential fridge on a MSW Inverter for the past 9 years and it hasn't missed a beat.

Disclaimer - not all fridges will run OK on a MSW Inverter but they will run on a PSW Inverter.

The only two brands that I know will run fine using a MSW Inverter is Samsung and Fisher-Paykel.

My Whirlpool has run fine on the ME-2012 MSW inverter for a few years.

Ed         
‘05 HR Ambassador 

On 11/3/2021 at 6:15 AM, Steven P said:

Like others above,  I have 2 receptacles behind the fridge and one is powered by the inverter.  If my GFCI in the bathroom trips, the fridge and some other outlets stop working, but my microwave still works.  Nick, if you have the old style outlets (see pic), you may want to change them out w a new one.   My GE fridge has been working fine for over a year on my MSW inverter. 

That’s a new one on me, “old style outlets”. Please give me more information on the issue.

Ed         
‘05 HR Ambassador 

On 11/3/2021 at 7:30 AM, jacwjames said:

 

Above sounds simple but took me ~4-5 days to figure out what was wrong and how to fix. 

You’re a better man than I am, Ganga Din. Doesn’t sound simple at all.

BTW, I thought the inverter plug was for the refrigerator itself and the shore power/generator one  was for the ice make because it draws so much current. Am I wrong.

Ed       
‘05 HR Ambassador 

Edited November 4, 2021 by saflyer

[CTerry]

My Samsung quit working one day after several years of no problems. Checked all the circuit breakers and other simple stuff. Was worried it was a Samsung problem. Just to be sure and rule out a refrigerator problem I unplugged it and plugged it into an extension cord direct to the power pedestal in the park. Refrigerator working fine. Checked plug itself. That was the problem. Plug just quit working. Replaced it with a heavy duty plug wired up the same way. Been OK for several years now. Old plug had cheap and fast connectors where you just pressed wires into a blade kind of thing. Had gotten loose and hot enough to cause failure. 

[Dr4Film]

Those receptacles are JUNK and are very susceptible to road travel and vibration.

 

[Ivylog]

3 hours ago, saflyer said:

I thought the inverter plug was for the refrigerator itself and the shore power/generator one  was for the ice make because it draws so much current. Am I wrong.

My understanding is that the ice maker is on the inverter (04 Dynasty was that way) so it would make ice going down the road while on propane. Takes fewer amps to harvest the ice than to power the heaters.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Ivylog

[Ivan K]

33 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

My understanding is that the ice maker is on the inverter (04 Dynasty was that way) so it would make ice going down the road while on propane. Takes fewer amps to harvest the ice than to power the heaters.

Both of our receptacles behind fridge get power through inverter, whether pass-through or inverted. Makes no difference where icemaker is plugged in and we always turn it off while traveling to prevent water splashing anyway. 

[David Pratt]

Well Ivan

Not true. The receptacle that works off the inverter is a pass thru circuit from the inverter and switches over to the inverter when there is no AC present  (Shore Power or Generator Power off or disconnected.)

The other receptacle had power only if the coach is plugged into shore power or the generator is running..

I have not been aware of any coach that has an absorption refrigerator that was wired differently. It is an RVIA standard.

 

[Ivylog]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

Both of our receptacles behind fridge get power through inverter, whether pass-through or inverted

Why have 2 outlets???

[Ivan K]

Maybe my terminology was wrong? Receptacle vs. Plug? Not sure. I have 2 plugs in one box, just as any other inside the coach. Just like on the chart below. That is the only box back there. I went to it and tested it just to confirm my memory is still somewhat functional. With Shore Power I get 124v in both, with shore off I get 96v in both, which is what my meter reads with modified wave. Just like my chart shows, powered from the inverter with either pass through shore AC or inverted modified wave if unplugged from shore. Makes more sense?

[96 EVO]

I ran the original Sharp Carousel convection microwave on inverter power (MSW) only a couple of times when I purchased the coach. 

It was 'groaning' pretty good. Never ran it, or it's new replacement on inverter again!

[Dr4Film]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

Maybe my terminology was wrong? Receptacle vs. Plug? Not sure. I have 2 plugs in one box, just as any other inside the coach. Just like on the chart below. That is the only box back there. I went to it and tested it just to confirm my memory is still somewhat functional. With Shore Power I get 124v in both, with shore off I get 96v in both, which is what my meter reads with modified wave. Just like my chart shows, powered from the inverter with either pass through shore AC or inverted modified wave if unplugged from shore. Makes more sense?

Ivan, is your coach an "all electric" coach or did it come from the factory with a residential fridge already installed and not an absorption type RV fridge?

[Ivan K]

Richard, it's not all electric and came with absorption fridge. I understand it may not be to standard but it is what it is and has been this way. There are no other wires going to the box and no other fridge breaker. The fridge will not switch to LP with inverter ON but I don't mind that, I don't use the AU mode. It would work on inverter while driving but we just turn it OFF for the few hours with no problem, to prevent out-of-level situations. I don't drive with LP on, just a personal preference. 

This is in my manual

Edited November 5, 2021 by Ivan K

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

In my neck of the woods the receptacle is what you plug a plug into.  It is labeled as such in Richard's drawing.   

[Dr4Film]

Ivan, in the drawing that you posted, if you look closely at the two receptacles, the lower one has hash marks through it which I think was supposed to denote a "non-Inverter" receptacle versus the top one which does not have those hash marks. However, I guess Monaco decided differently when they went to install yours. Plus I find it very interesting that they would recommend in their manual running an absorption fridge using the Inverter versus LPG which is terribly inefficient plus would draw LOTS of amp-hours from the batteries whenever you do a rest stop, lunch stop or do any dry camping at all.

[96 EVO]

4 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Ivan, in the drawing that you posted, if you look closely at the two receptacles, the lower one has hash marks through it which I think was supposed to denote a "non-Inverter" receptacle versus the top one which does not have those hash marks.  

That caught my attention as well.

Both of my receptacles behind my fridge 'look' like normal dual receptacles, but each only have one outlet.

Ice maker on inverted circuit, refrigerator element, not. 

[Ivan K]

26 minutes ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

In my neck of the woods the receptacle is what you plug a plug into.  It is labeled as such in Richard's drawing.   

That's what I thought too, Chuck. BTW, the pic is from my charts and shows inverter connection.

[Ivylog]

Ivan, can you post a picture of the main breaker panel?

 The hash marks, mean for me, not used.

[Ivan K]

13 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Ivan, in the drawing that you posted, if you look closely at the two receptacles, the lower one has hash marks through it which I think was supposed to denote a "non-Inverter" receptacle versus the top one which does not have those hash marks. However, I guess Monaco decided differently when they went to install yours. Plus I find it very interesting that they would recommend in their manual running an absorption fridge using the Inverter versus LPG which is terribly inefficient plus would draw LOTS of amp-hours from the batteries whenever you do a rest stop, lunch stop or do any dry camping at all.

Agreed, I noticed the markings too but voltage meassurent confirms that both get inverter power. Regardless of the manual, I don't use the fridge on inverted power but it is capable to do it while on the move, not so much stationary. Of course, the icemaker is running when boondocking and causes no problems.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

The ice makers in most all the frig's I have seen work off a separate 120 vac power source.  You can purchase them at Lowes and Home Depot.

[96 EVO]

Ivan, maybe the electrician wiring your coach decided, this one's not a Snowflake yet 😀! 

[Ivan K]

18 minutes ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

The ice makers in most all the frig's I have seen work off a separate 120 vac power source.  You can purchase them at Lowes and Home Depot.

Correct, I already replaced ours and they seem to be quite universal. 

30 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Ivan, can you post a picture of the main breaker panel?

 The hash marks, mean for me, not used.

Dick,

Not sure where my reply went so here it is again. I promise you, both plugs work, get power from inverter and both are in use (fridge and it's icemaker).It's just to show that it is wired differently and others might be too, that's all. I have no complaints. Chart of both breaker boxes attached, hopefully readable. 

[96 EVO]

Your lucky they gave you a AC wiring schematic in your manual!

Nothing like that in mine!