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2007 Signature "S" Chassis Welds Failed - Photos


Hypoxia
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/30/2020 at 8:43 AM, Busnut said:

I have hear problems when having the Detroit engine as an option. I would think that the ISX is just as heavy.  I have not seen or heard of any issue with the ISM.

I don't see it as engine related.  Monaco did a poor job on a spot weld on the torque rod nut.   I think it would have failed on any chassis.

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1 hour ago, Hypoxia said:

I don't see it as engine related.  Monaco did a poor job on a spot weld on the torque rod nut.   I think it would have failed on any chassis.

That’s the scary part.  

I spoke with a Sig owner at a park in Fort Myers in February.  I think his was a 2005 model year. He said Roadmaster failed to  proper bolt flange brackets to his rear H frame. He had complained about squirrelly handling after he bought it new, but it wasn’t until he found a good shop that the problem was found and corrected. 

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I'm trying to understand these pictures.  To me it looks like someone elongated the bolt hole on the lower control arm  bracket on the drive axle in a failed effort to align the drive axle.  Then to hold the bolt in place, the nut was welded to the bracket.  What I can tell you is that none of the axle control arm nuts are welded to the brackets nor are there any elongated bolt hole brackets  for the control arms on my 2008 Dynasty.  

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15 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

I'm trying to understand these pictures.  To me it looks like someone elongated the bolt hole on the lower control arm  bracket on the drive axle in a failed effort to align the drive axle.  Then to hold the bolt in place, the nut was welded to the bracket.  What I can tell you is that none of the axle control arm nuts are welded to the brackets nor are there any elongated bolt hole brackets  for the control arms on my 2008 Dynasty.  

I assumed it was a Roadmaster factory job.  It could have been done by a previous owner though.   It sure was a hack job!

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It would be good to also look at the upper link.  It would not surprise me if you find the same problem.  To me it looks like someone tried to align the drive axle by elongating bracket holes and welding the nuts as shown in your pictures. This is not the proper way to do a drive axle alignment.

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6 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

It would be good to also look at the upper link.  It would not surprise me if you find the same problem.  To me it looks like someone tried to align the drive axle by elongating bracket holes and welding the nuts as shown in your pictures. This is not the proper way to do a drive axle alignment.

Hey Frank, do you think the bolt hole modification lead to the welds cracking?  

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Yes it very likely lead to the cracked welds especially if the top link also had the nut still welded to the bracket.  Basically there can be no slop in the bracket hole where the control arm link bolt passes through the bracket.  You need to find a truck shop who knows what they are doing to properly repair the brackets, and properly align the drive axle.

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Frank is spot on.  SOMEONE did the "lets try this" fix for a rear axle alignment.  Moving the Torque rod is NOT the "most recommended" fix.  First....lets deal with the potential "cause" that resulted in a carbide tooth bucky beaver gnawing.   The root cause (Henderson's and Josam's will back me up on this) of a rear axle alignment issue is a WARPED axle mounting bracket.  The Assembly Welder either set up his welder wrong or got preoccupied with a text and OVERHEATED one side.  That "warps" the mounting bracket which then translates into the Axle not being 100% Perpendicular to the frame.  SO....you gotta fix it.  The OLD technology fix is go to the OTHER side of the bracket and WARP it.  That then will typically move the axle BACK to the original intended position.    Hendersons and several other noted shops will use a welder to heat it up and "lay down heavy, high voltage beads".  Then, they might quench it.  Josams' has a proprietary induction heating method.  They have specially designed pads or heaters (probably with some cooling circuits) and then they pop it with a high voltage....and INDUCE (as in a transformer center core) HEAT.  THEN they quench and that "warps" the OTHER side and forces the axle housing back.  I know....I had it done.  Many of our former members have also had that done.  The Henderson methold requires a GOOD GROUND (otherwise the electronics gets fried) as well as changing out the rear axle fluid as you "toast it".

SO....YES....there are some "uniquely developed" fixes for this.  BUT....when you start messing with the torque rod and DON'T address the REAL issue....the WARPED bracket....you have some collateral damage.  BINGO....you break things because the person doing the "cobbling up" did not understand the issues or was not quite as handy as the original "inventor" of the fix.

Bottom line....doing that fix....compared to the traditional fix might save a few hundred....but I shutter to think about the microscopic metallurgical damage to the entire assembly and brackets.  Not to mention....how can you have "SLOP" in the mount and still have a rigid frame and handling?  

I am NOT one of the chassis guru's....but the way (maybe it was....OK....I need to move it A LOT) it was implemented....  I would check everything that is connected or associated with how the torque rod is mounted....PLUS have a quality frame shop check the rear end.  IF they "fixed" the bracket...maybe it was in the "OK....hit it again with the 15 pound sledge" position and got lucky and then welded it back into place.  

A former tool room supervisor of mine had a "wall plaque" that read.

No amount of engineering expertise and design will stand up to an inordinate amount of brute force and stupidity....

 

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  • 1 month later...

I don't have any idea who did it, as stated by some it probably was not the factory.  I do know it was done prior to 50,000 miles.  Perhaps a previous owner took it in for a thrust alignment by some "Professionals". 

 I took it to Spectrac in Mesa, AZ for a thrust alignment last September & they didn't see  this.  They did charge $$$ for an inspection and an estimate of $$$$ which didn't address this problem .  That surprised me since I had scheduled it to have an alignment , not an inspection.  Professionals?  They sure dropped the ball on this one & it's probably the best shop in that area.

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