Help with Air Tanks and leaks - Valid

[amphi_sc]

I posed a question in the very similarly titled thread asking for suggestions as to where to start looking for the leak causing excessive aux pump cycles (26 seconds every 45 minutes), but as Valid air leveling was part of the equation Jim J (OP) asked it be in a separate thread as he only had hydraulic jacks. 

Even when in manual mode and the circuit breaker for the aux pump pulled, my bags would not lose air and the coach remain level over several days without the auto level trying to adjust the system, so it seemed like the six pack solenoids were not a problem and were properly isolating the ride height valves when not in travel mode.

So here's what I replaced and now my aux pump does not run excessively ... all back to normal ... pump running only when auto level readjusts due to temperature changes

A check valve, Pressure Protection Valve, and a clean cut on an air line to a push in DOT connector.

Edited December 11, 2021 by amphi_sc
Added an after pic

[Bill R]

Thank you for this separate thread as I have a similar Valid system with no Hydraulic Leveling and I am experiencing air leak issues.

My '06 Windsor coach is new to me so I do not yet have a complete understanding of the entire air system.  In auto or manual mode of the Valid system the coach will go completely down within 1 hour with the aux compressor kicking on every 20 minutes afterwards.   Every time I start the engine the air tanks and air bags are down and takes about 5 mins to charge back up.  I know that there are probably several issues going on and not just one.  I have identified several substantial leaks on fittings on both the aux compressor and tanks.  I am in the process of fixing those.  But I know that there will probably be other issues to trouble shoot so I am asking the following questions at this time.

1)  I have manually disconnected the aux compressor so it would not continue to cycle so much.  I could not find a fuse anywhere.  Any suggestions on where the fuse would be for the aux compressor?

2)  Does anyone have an air system diagram for my coach so I can understand better how the leveling air bag system works vs the travel ride height vs air brake system?  I know they are somewhat separate systems but I do not completely understand how they are isolated and interact. 

3)  Do the Pressure Protection Valves leak to the atmosphere?  So all I have to do is spray them to see if they are working?

Thank you all as this is an awesome forum.  And my apologies in advance if some of my questions are misdirected as I am learning by leaps and bounds.  I am sure I will have other questions once I fix all the leaks I have found.

 

 

[amphi_sc]

My coach is different but on mine the compressor is hot all the time from a 20A CB in the Front Run Box under the driver's window.  Pull that to kill it.

BTW, when I put in Viair replacement pump, I put in a 40A rated relay by the pump so the front run box now powers only the pressure switch and coil on the relay.  It draws actual pump power from a new 10 ga wire from the rear run box on the 12v House bus after the salesman switch.  The pump I picked (480c as half of a 444 twin pack my local distributor splits) for a replacement could draw 23A at 200 psi and 20A at the 120 psi cut off.  So I figured the relay would help with voltage drop / circuit wire length / contacts of the pressure switch, etc. I thought perhaps a 50% duty 200 psi pump might still be able to make 120 after a lot of service.  I recall reading some place these Chinese pumps have about a 100 HR MTBF.  I think one short cycling problem I had a while ago before I installed the relay was bad contacts in the pressure switch, perhaps by arcing too much current.

https://www.viaircorp.com/tech/compressor-comparisons

[bgfleck]

On our 07 Sig it is not a fuse but a gold auto reset circuit breaker in the front run box. 

 

There should be a check valve between the auxiliary system and the main system. The auxiliary system should not be able to fill the main tanks and brake system as it is not dried air and the moisture could cause problems with the brakes. On our Sig there is a small auxiliary tank. It is my understanding that some earlier models did not have this tank.

 

Hope this helps

 

Brian

[Ivylog]

Good luck finding all of the leaks! Like many on here, I’ve spent hours underneath our rig chasing and fixing air leaks. I still have a leak on the right rear which puts it in the six pack solenoids that you can’t see the leak. Haven’t gotten motivated to buy the Orings and rebuild the solenoids. 
 

Fortunately our rig has a switch for the aux compressor in the console next to the driver’s seat.
 

Like Bill’s 06 Windsor, it takes 4-5 minutes to build press and get to ride height each morning. After 30 seconds our 04 Dynasty was read to go and would stay level for a month.

[woodylmiller]

Since leaks seem to be here to stay in one form or another, I did the relay mod and put a switch in the cockpit to turn the pump off when I didn't want to listen to it.  Also, my pump was running off a 30 fuse in the front run box.  I now have the relay fed from a main fuse block.  I have also noticed that temperature swings will cause leaks to happen or not.  Coach does stay level for weeks at a time.

Woody Miller

09 Dynasty

[Bill R]

Thanks for sharing this Woody as I am also considering installing a switch for the aux compressor. 

I will share my experience with everyone on my Valid Leveling System and I hope it will be beneficial to some. 

My compressor was kicking on every 20 minutes and the rig was losing level over a few days.  After fixing all the leaks in the leveling system, the aux compressor was still coming on about every hour but the coach was holding level.  i.e., I knew I had no leaks at or after the six-pack levelers.   I was stumped because I also had no leaks on the aux compressor lines, aux compressor tank, and lines going to the six pack levelers.

I can not say this is true for all coaches, but for my 2006 Windsor Monaco, the auxiliary pump system is designed to supply air only for the Valid Leveling.  BUT....even if you have NO leaks in the entire leveling system, you can lose pressure at the aux compressor tank through faulty check valves.

There is a one way check on aux compressor tank that isolates the main air system from the leveling system.  The purpose of having the main and leveling systems interconnected is to allow the main air system to supply air to the Valid leveling system as a backup.  If this check is faulty, then any small leaks in the main air system over time will cause the aux compressor tank to lose pressure and the aux compressor to kick on at 90 psi. 

Also, learning from this forum and others, there is a one way check to isolate the aux compressor from the system so any leaks in the compressor won't draw down the system.  Mine was on the line on top of the tank coming from the aux compressor.

Needless to say, on my system BOTH check valves were faulty and allowing the aux compressor tank to lose pressure by small leaks back through the compressor and a slow leak down of the main air system.   All I did was remove these check valves and I could blow air through them both ways.

I have since replaced both check valves and relocated the pressure relay and put in a gauge, and the system works perfectly.   The aux compressor no longer kicks on and the coach stays perfectly level.  I occasionally look at the gauge and it holds at 120 psi.

This may be common knowledge to many about these check valves, but it was an epiphany to me.

Pics below.  First Pic Faulty Check Valve on top of tank.  Second Pic Faulty Check Valve on bottom of tank (now replaced).  Third Pic, new design with Pressure Switch relocated, new check valve and Gauge.

 

[96 EVO]

On 12/11/2021 at 5:55 PM, bgfleck said:

On our 07 Sig it is not a fuse but a gold auto reset circuit breaker in the front run box. 

 

There should be a check valve between the auxiliary system and the main system. The auxiliary system should not be able to fill the main tanks and brake system as it is not dried air and the moisture could cause problems with the brakes. On our Sig there is a small auxiliary tank. It is my understanding that some earlier models did not have this tank.

 

Hope this helps

 

Brian

That would be the PPV the original poster worked on.

It will allow air from the secondary dry tank to flow into the small leveling tank, until the secondary tank pressure drops, then it stops releasing air.

It won't allow air to flow the opposite direction.