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Cruse control problem


CLIFF918
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56 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

Are your stop lights working?

Yes they are

1 hour ago, Flyinhy said:

I'm having issues with my CC as well.....

https://www.rvtechlibrary.com › smartwheel

Everything I am reading in the smartwheel manual usually points to replacing the smartwheel controller. 

Hope this helps

On newer coaches ok, mine does not have the smart wheel it's an 02

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You should have two air pressure switches  mounted on the fire wall. One is a Normally Open Switch (NO) which turns on the brake lights when you press the brake pedal and the other is a Normally Closed Switch(NC) which will disengage the Cruise Control when you press the brake pedal.

I would start at the switches first. If NC switch does not open when you press the brake pedal it has failed. If you have a wiring Schematic of you coach you should be able to trace the Cruise Control Circuit and identify what switches control the CC functions.

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  • 3 months later...
On 1/12/2022 at 9:15 AM, David Pratt said:

You should have two air pressure switches  mounted on the fire wall. One is a Normally Open Switch (NO) which turns on the brake lights when you press the brake pedal and the other is a Normally Closed Switch(NC) which will disengage the Cruise Control when you press the brake pedal.

I would start at the switches first. If NC switch does not open when you press the brake pedal it has failed. If you have a wiring Schematic of you coach you should be able to trace the Cruise Control Circuit and identify what switches control the CC functions.

Thanks for the info Dave.

I am still fighting this disengage the cruse control issue along with some other minor issues before we leave Titusville for VT in May.

If I can't fix the cruse release issue I will just not use it.

I can not find the pressure switches you talk about looked all over the area around the brake pedal and firewall.

There are no switches on or about the Bendix brake assembly at all.

The print I have shows them in the schematic just doesn't show the location.

My brake lights work just can not disengage  the cruse with the brake.

If the switches are behind the dash then they are going to stay there I refuse to go into that rat's nest.

Cliff

 

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On my 2002 Windsor there is a large black plastic cover the in front of the brake pedal.   If you a cover like this the switches may be underneath.

I had the cover off ~8 months ago but can't remember if there were switches underneath or not but I know there was access to the back side of the brake pedal.

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I went out to my coach and removed the black plastic box.  The first time it did it they had hard to access screws at the top plus black silicone sealing it all the way around.   I did not reseal this and didn't put the top screws in so it was easy to remove.

There are 2 pressure switches on the brake pedal.  There are 3 wires coming off each that go to a connector but only 2 wires coming out.  All 4 wires then combine into a small wiring loom that then goes into a large loom and disappears, no easy way to trace this. 

But I did look in my parts pages that I had downloaded from the Monaco site back ~12 years ago and I had the brake pedal, see attached.  It has a switch listed which you can then go to the REV parts page and look up https://revrvparts.com/item-detail?itemId=68684&organizationId=9   It only lists one switch, so not sure if the two I saw were different or not, it may rely on the relays to be normally open or closed and the pressure switch just sends the signal.   You should be able to undo the wiring harness and see if the switches are working by checking ohms while someone presses the brake pedal. 

I went to the NASON page and you can down load a product catalog that explains how to decipher the part number SM-1C-5R1WP205  but I would make some calls on trying to find one.  These have to be pretty common.   https://www.nasonptc.com/products/switches/low-pressure/sm/  the above part number shows it's only 5psi, don't confuse a park brake switch for this, it is higher pressure. 

One thing to check is the wiring loom coming out of the black box, as I was trying to trace the wires I saw mine were pinched pretty good. 

 

1 Brake Pedal.pdf

Edited by jacwjames
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3 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I went out to my coach and removed the black plastic box.  The first time it did it they had hard to access screws at the top plus black silicone sealing it all the way around.   I did not reseal this and didn't put the top screws in so it was easy to remove.

There are 2 pressure switches on the brake pedal.  There are 3 wires coming off each that go to a connector but only 2 wires coming out.  All 4 wires then combine into a small wiring loom that then goes into a large loom and disappears, no easy way to trace this. 

But I did look in my parts pages that I had downloaded from the Monaco site back ~12 years ago and I had the brake pedal, see attached.  It has a switch listed which you can then go to the REV parts page and look up https://revrvparts.com/item-detail?itemId=68684&organizationId=9   It only lists one switch, so not sure if the two I saw were different or not, it may rely on the relays to be normally open or closed and the pressure switch just sends the signal.   You should be able to undo the wiring harness and see if the switches are working by checking ohms while someone presses the brake pedal. 

I went to the NASON page and you can down load a product catalog that explains how to decipher the part number SM-1C-5R1WP205  but I would make some calls on trying to find one.  These have to be pretty common.   https://www.nasonptc.com/products/switches/low-pressure/sm/  the above part number shows it's only 5psi, don't confuse a park brake switch for this, it is higher pressure. 

One thing to check is the wiring loom coming out of the black box, as I was trying to trace the wires I saw mine were pinched pretty good. 

 

1 Brake Pedal.pdf 54.55 kB · 1 download

This brake pedal PDF looks exactly like what I have, However no location for the switches and I have looked (almost) everywhere.

I am done for tonight will have another look in the morning.

I really appreciate all the help.

Cliff

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10 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Did you take the black cover off the firewall.  That's where I was able to see mine, they are mounted on the brake pedal amongst all the tubuing connections. 

I'll take a picture tomorrow. 

Have not had a chance to do that yet, it's on my to do list.

Thanks

Cliff

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When you do get the cover off and locate the switches take a good look at the wires, they have identification markings on them.  You should be able to determine which one is for the cruise cancel and which one is for the PacBrake/Cruise cancel.

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2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

When you do get the cover off and locate the switches take a good look at the wires, they have identification markings on them.  You should be able to determine which one is for the cruise cancel and which one is for the PacBrake/Cruise cancel.

Rather then tear out the whole black box I made a door. You are right the switches are buried in there. 

There are 2 white wires going to each switch 2 are marked Brake and return and the other 2 are not readable so I am assuming they are the cruse cancel. 

I am going to OHM out the switches to see if that is the issue as soon as I get wife to step on brake for me.

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My 2002 Windsor Chassis wiring diagram shows the treadle valve and switches.  Download a copy form the the Downloads section.   when you open it it will be blurry, hit CTRL & 5 at the same time and it will clear right up.  Zoom in at 1600%   Then do a search using the keyword Treadle and it will take you right to the area on the diagram. 

I will admit I am a little confused on how the two switches interact and then provide a signal to the Allison brake sense relay, maybe someone else can chime in. 

No idea where the relays are located, I looked in my front run bay and couldn't find any for the cruse or pac brake cancel.   I do have one for the Allison brake sense relay, it is in my front drivers side run bay.

I tried to take a picture of the switches but too tight to get a decent shot.  The switches look like the link I provided to the REV parts page. 

I have searched for these switches and have not been able to find any.   The REV site says they had ~15 of them but they are pricey. 

You should be able to test them though, ohming them is the first step.  One of the wires feeding the switch should have power on it, you might check the incoming harness and confirm.  I believe the switch close to make a connection.

They are low pressure switches, 5 psi based on the numbering code that NASON has.   If one of your switches is bad, try and confirm the part number and make some calls. 

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2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

My 2002 Windsor Chassis wiring diagram shows the treadle valve and switches.  Download a copy form the the Downloads section.   when you open it it will be blurry, hit CTRL & 5 at the same time and it will clear right up.  Zoom in at 1600%   Then do a search using the keyword Treadle and it will take you right to the area on the diagram. 

I will admit I am a little confused on how the two switches interact and then provide a signal to the Allison brake sense relay, maybe someone else can chime in. 

No idea where the relays are located, I looked in my front run bay and couldn't find any for the cruse or pac brake cancel.   I do have one for the Allison brake sense relay, it is in my front drivers side run bay.

I tried to take a picture of the switches but too tight to get a decent shot.  The switches look like the link I provided to the REV parts page. 

I have searched for these switches and have not been able to find any.   The REV site says they had ~15 of them but they are pricey. 

You should be able to test them though, ohming them is the first step.  One of the wires feeding the switch should have power on it, you might check the incoming harness and confirm.  I believe the switch close to make a connection.

They are low pressure switches, 5 psi based on the numbering code that NASON has.   If one of your switches is bad, try and confirm the part number and make some calls. 

Jim,

I was able to OHM out both switches and with the aid of the wife pressing on the brake, both switches operate correctly so that rules out the switches.

I have the diagram but was not aware of the ctrl 5 to clear it up.

I am going there now.

Cliff

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I've spent a little time trying to decipher the wiring for the Treadle valve.

>>>>Do you have a Monaco 1 and Monaco 2 fuse box in your front run bay?

On my coach I have 2 smaller fuse boxes in my front drivers side run bay.  The #2 Monaco box has a 20 amp fuse for the brake circuit, I believe this is what provides power in on the 2 switches, labeled "B" Brake Sig.  The return wires are the grounds labeled "A", if you trace the circuit it shows it goes all the way to the batter (-) post. 

In the #2 Monaco box it also shows several relays. Exhaust Brake 1 & 2, and Brake Lights.  These do interact within the circuit that involves the treadle valve circuits.  

I would check all the connections in the #2 box (IF you have one). all the fuses, and you might check the relays. 

I still do not know where the cruise cancel and exhaust brake/cruse cancel relays shown in the wiring schematic.   You might have to get a wire tracer and see if you can follow the signal.   Don't make a mistake like I did and buy a cheap one.  

The relays might be in the drivers side console, it's a rats nest of wires there.

 

 

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11 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I've spent a little time trying to decipher the wiring for the Treadle valve.

>>>>Do you have a Monaco 1 and Monaco 2 fuse box in your front run bay?

On my coach I have 2 smaller fuse boxes in my front drivers side run bay.  The #2 Monaco box has a 20 amp fuse for the brake circuit, I believe this is what provides power in on the 2 switches, labeled "B" Brake Sig.  The return wires are the grounds labeled "A", if you trace the circuit it shows it goes all the way to the batter (-) post. 

In the #2 Monaco box it also shows several relays. Exhaust Brake 1 & 2, and Brake Lights.  These do interact within the circuit that involves the treadle valve circuits.  

I would check all the connections in the #2 box (IF you have one). all the fuses, and you might check the relays. 

I still do not know where the cruise cancel and exhaust brake/cruse cancel relays shown in the wiring schematic.   You might have to get a wire tracer and see if you can follow the signal.   Don't make a mistake like I did and buy a cheap one.  

The relays might be in the drivers side console, it's a rats nest of wires there.

 

 

Jim,

I have both of them and I have a good wire tracer.

At this point I am going to leave it as is since we will be traveling Sept1 from Florida to Vermont for the summer I just will not use the cruise. I will have more time once we get to our destination.

Thanks for all your help 

Cliff

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Jim,

OK, I think I might have the cruise problem fixed, will tell for sure on the road test next week.

I couldn't let it get the best of me so I went back at it this morning and it was starring me in the face for several days, duh.

In the process of tracing the brake and cruse signal paths from the treadle switches back to the brain is when I discovered the splice in the line.

The previous owner had a brake controller installed for his toad, I don't need this for my Ranger I have the Blue OX so I have never used it and just kind of overlooked it.

The wire they spliced into is the cruse cancel signal, which will supply a path for the Draw tight controller to operate, but I am thinking that it might interfere with the cruise cancel operation,  Just a theory of mine but sounds logical.

The brake controller should have been spliced into the BRAKE signal form the other switch, the one that lights the red lights.

So now it (Draw Tight Controller) is gone away and hopefully all is fixed.

Cliff

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Cruise control issue is solved. 
Someone had installed a brake control for a toad or trailer and tied into the wrong brake signal line. I am using the Blue Ox/patriot and don’t need the brake control unit so I disconnected it…problem solved and tested good.

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