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Wet bay- Where’s the snap disc


saflyer

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‘05 Holiday Rambler Ambassador:

Like so many I have a little time on my hands so I’m delving into an issue that isn’t very important in my RVing but would like to know if it works.  I have a wet bay heater that I’ve never seen give an indication of it working by the light next to the On/Off switch.  I don’t really know if I’ve ever been in a situation where would have come but have always left the switch in the on position.  I located the heater in the bay and found It has three wires leading to it, black, red and white.  Can anyone tell me what each wire is?  I assume one is power for the heating element, one for the fan and one the ground.  Or is one power and each of the other two grounds?

I understand there should be a snap disc thermo switch but I can’t find anything like that in the bay.  The three wires mentioned above come out of a wire bundle tube that comes out of the ceiling of the bay.  Where should I look for the snap disc?

 I have read on other forum threads there is an internal fuse In the heater that is subject to burning and can’t be replaced.  However, that thread described a means of putting another fuse in the power line, externally I believe.  The problem is the heater will be very difficult to remove.  It sits behind two drain pipes, fresh water and gray.  Looks like one will have to be removed to get the heater out.  Not a job for me.

 

Any suggestions on my project?
 

Thanks

5866369B-E1E5-4B80-B6F0-6E0E5D43E34A.jpeg

Edited by saflyer
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Mine is on the wall to the left!

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Monaco uses WHITE wires for GROUNDS. I would assume the red is constant hot and the black is switched hot. That said, the only sure way is to meter it. Meters are FREE at Harbor Freight with a purchase, if you don't have one. IMO, every tool box should have a meter and everyone should know how to use one.....Dennis

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I have an 05 HR Neptune. My wet bay is similar and my snap disc was screwed into the back wall to the right of the water pump, behind some wires. It was bad and my heater was bad. When you find the snap disc, jump across the two snap disc post with a jump wire, and if your switch is on and the heater comes on, more than likely the heater is ok.

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3 hours ago, saflyer said:

‘05 Holiday Rambler Ambassador:

Like so many I have a little time on my hands so I’m delving into an issue that isn’t very important in my RVing but would like to know if it works.  I have a wet bay heater that I’ve never seen give an indication of it working by the light next to the On/Off switch.  I don’t really know if I’ve ever been in a situation where would have come but have always left the switch in the on position.  I located the heater in the bay and found It has three wires leading to it, black, red and white.  Can anyone tell me what each wire is?  I assume one is power for the heating element, one for the fan and one the ground.  Or is one power and each of the other two grounds?

I understand there should be a snap disc thermo switch but I can’t find anything like that in the bay.  The three wires mentioned above come out of a wire bundle tube that comes out of the ceiling of the bay.  Where should I look for the snap disc?

 I have read on other forum threads there is an internal fuse In the heater that is subject to burning and can’t be replaced.  However, that thread described a means of putting another fuse in the power line, externally I believe.  The problem is the heater will be very difficult to remove.  It sits behind two drain pipes, fresh water and gray.  Looks like one will have to be removed to get the heater out.  Not a job for me.

 

Any suggestions on my project?
 

Thanks

5866369B-E1E5-4B80-B6F0-6E0E5D43E34A.jpeg

The heater is easily removed by un screwing the black knobs on the sides. Plus unplugging the wires. I had to repair mine to get it to work. Plus there is a white paper in the download files for the repair procedure. If the rain here settles down enough, I will take pics of where and what my snap disc looks like tomorrow.

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2 minutes ago, Gary M said:

The heater is easily removed by un screwing the black knobs on the sides. Plus unplugging the wires. I had to repair mine to get it to work. Plus there is a white paper in the download files for the repair procedure. If the rain here settles down enough, I will take pics of where and what my snap disc looks like tomorrow.

I tried that.  No matter how I turned the heater it’s too big to remove without removing a pipe.

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1 minute ago, saflyer said:

I tried that.  No matter how I turned the heater it’s too big to remove without removing a pipe.

Wow! Mine I believe came out between the black and gray pipes. But that was two years ago. Wish I was there to help u!! 

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12 hours ago, Gary M said:

Wow! Mine I believe came out between the black and gray pipes. But that was two years ago. Wish I was there to help u!! 

I’ll try again.  Or you could hop on a plane and come here.  Oh, wait a minute, there aren’t any planes.

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18 hours ago, saflyer said:

 I have a wet bay heater that I’ve never seen give an indication of it working by the light next to the On/Off switch.  I don’t really know if I’ve ever been in a situation where would have come but have always left the switch in the on position.

I never knew how this worked as I had never been in areas where it was cold enough to worry about it...until last year.  Low and behold my owners manual had the info.  When I turn on the System  Heat switch it turns on a heating pad underneath my fresh water tank and sends power to the bay heater. After that, the snap disc determines when to let that power get to the bay heater.  According to the manual, the snap disc allows power to the bay heater at about 35* and it turns off the power when bay temps reach somewhere around 50*. The light next to the System Heat switch comes on only when the bay heater is activated by the snap disc. The power to the heating pad is on whenever the System Heat switch is on and this can drain your batts. if you are not plugged in. 

Hope this helps.

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2 hours ago, saflyer said:

I’ll try again.  Or you could hop on a plane and come here.  Oh, wait a minute, there aren’t any planes.

Ill get my rocket back pac out of mothballs. See ya soon. Rain slowed down so here are two more pics of my 09 Knight wet bay. The snap disc is on the left wall in front of water pump. Red wire clips in to it.

0FC223E0-6EDA-4A0A-88E7-BEEC74F9E837.jpeg

0F1E5994-63B5-40E7-8FA5-FDE1BD5085C6.jpeg

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Gary M.

The wet bay heater on our '09 Cayman stopped working after the first time I tried it. Fuse. Replaced it twice, same result. Checked the specs and the draw on batteries is really fierce and would preclude its use unless generator or shore power. Don't remember the exact draw but it was stunning. There were files on Monacoers concerning replacing the fuse with something or other from Radio shack, but don't remember now. So, decided to just forget the wet bay heater, and use a 'trouble light' with a 60 watt bulb in it. Of course we live in north Florida, so don't need much heat on the few nights it gets into the 20's.  IMHO easy is good.

Frank Walter '09 Cayman 38SBD

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42 minutes ago, flynnwalter said:

Gary M.

The wet bay heater on our '09 Cayman stopped working after the first time I tried it. Fuse. Replaced it twice, same result. Checked the specs and the draw on batteries is really fierce and would preclude its use unless generator or shore power. Don't remember the exact draw but it was stunning. There were files on Monacoers concerning replacing the fuse with something or other from Radio shack, but don't remember now. So, decided to just forget the wet bay heater, and use a 'trouble light' with a 60 watt bulb in it. Of course we live in north Florida, so don't need much heat on the few nights it gets into the 20's.  IMHO easy is good.

Frank Walter '09 Cayman 38SBD

Are talking about internal thermodisc pictured below. There is instructions in the downloads to repair the heater. Its worked great when I needed it.

48BE54E7-D2D7-4176-8722-4125AB7D2851.jpeg

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23 hours ago, Gary M said:

Wow! Mine I believe came out between the black and gray pipes. But that was two years ago. Wish I was there to help u!! 

OK, tried again.  Had to bend the metal bracket the heater mounts to so I could turn it sideways.  Then I was barely able to slide it out above the potable water drain pipe.  
 

I looked all over for the snap disc.  I assume it is along the power line.  Those wires disappear up between the wet bay forward wall and the forward side of the gray water tank.  The only way to see up there is to remove the entire wet bay control panel, not an easy task. Can’t find the snap disc anywhere.  I’ll test the heater tomorrow.  In a way I hope it doesn’t work.  But that still doesn’t rule out a bad snap disc, if there is one.

 

 

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2 hours ago, saflyer said:

OK, tried again.  Had to bend the metal bracket the heater mounts to so I could turn it sideways.  Then I was barely able to slide it out above the potable water drain pipe.  
 

I looked all over for the snap disc.  I assume it is along the power line.  Those wires disappear up between the wet bay forward wall and the forward side of the gray water tank.  The only way to see up there is to remove the entire wet bay control panel, not an easy task. Can’t find the snap disc anywhere.  I’ll test the heater tomorrow.  In a way I hope it doesn’t work.  But that still doesn’t rule out a bad snap disc, if there is one.

 

 

Well if it doesn't work, don't forget about the repair file. It was a couple of dollars for parts and around $20 for crimping set from Amazon.

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As Co-Author of the White Paper on how to fix, once and for all, the Cargo Heater....but I was the "writer...and part time tech", I am jumping in here.   Frank M. did extensive testing on a unit that I procured for him.  He also did some circuit tracing.  He also set up an elaborate experimentation box or conditions and figured out HOW it works.  Suffice it to say, he now knows MORE about the heater and the problem than the vendor does.

I talked to the vendor several times and sent them information.  They were a small mom and pop shop.  Monaco used their products and all was well.  SOMETIME there was a melt down.  

My background as the Product Engineering Manager in a liability case tells me that quickly a lawyer came in and the company put in a "safety" fuse.  The earlier (maybe 2005?) units did not have the fuse.  I talked to the lady that had been on the line, done all the QC testing, and also was in charge of "fixing" the returned units.  There USED to be a "designer" that specified the components.  He added the Fuse.  He left the company.  There is NO engineering or tech support.  They just keep building them like he told them to.

The lady also said that every unit is tested....for maybe a minute and it passes (heats up and there is a voltage or maybe amperage test).  She said that there had never been a problem with any of the returned unit...except that every one of them had a bad (blown" fuse.  She replaced that and sent them back.

Frank went through the circuit.  He looked at the specs.  The fuse was a bad choice.  Then, after he came up with the fix, he tested it quite a bit.  He concluded that putting in a new fuse...MIGHT work for a few cycles...no way to go past that.  BUT, when the heater was working, it was constantly cycling on and off.  This is from Memory....many years ago.  That cycling....as the heater had an internal "thermostat" was what was blowing the fuse.  The fuse was not rated for continuous current or also for the heat generated by the internal coil.  SO....the OEM fuses would blow.

Many folks used a Radio Shack fuse....some actually put TWO in parallel to see if that worked.  Don't knock that or say that it won't work...but Frank looked at the specs and felt that what he chose was the best repair.  To date, there is no feedback that the White Paper repair has failed.

OK....Snap Disk.  That was the original question.  Mine is hanging DOWN in the wiring harness.  So, I am assuming that you looked there.  BUT, if some well meaning and not properly instructed assembler decided to "neaten it up", he MIGHT have zip tied it to roof....and you might have to do some wire chasing.  

I have attached TWO files.  One is the wiring diagram from my Camelot.  Basically, you turn on the switch.  That  then provides the "Trigger" on the ON (or active) .  That is the BLUE wire.  That also, if you have it, turn on the Mat heater under the water tank.  Then there is the Snap Disk that provides an ON circuit to the heater (when the snap disk is closed).  The main power comes from a fused (20 A) source.  The faint yellow lines are there for lights and such.

Bottom line....there is 3 wires for the heater.  ON (Yellow) , Fused Power (Red)  and Ground (Black).  That's it.  NOW.....as an aside.  The Snap Disks have been known (or folks thought so) to fail.  Some have put the disks in flexible ice packs like you use for muscles or "god forbid", somehow dipped them in melting ice water.

Also I included the White Paper.

Good Luck....

PS....IF you are going to use the heaters, then you have to be PLUGGED in as it will kill the House Batteries almost immediately.  IF you have a trouble light with a 60 or 75 or 100 watt INCANDESCENT bulb (not an LED), then you can order a simple plug in Thermostat of Freeze Prevention thermostat on Amazon for around $15 -$20.  Run an extension cord to the wet bay.  Plug in the thermostat.  Plug the trouble light in.  BINGO....you have better or more reliable freeze protection.  Just a work around that SOME choose to use.

12 volt heater wet bay.pdf Cargo Heater Fix Final Rev3 4_12_16.pdf

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Shows how different these coaches can be from model to model. Our snap disk is located behind the white panel in the service bay high up near the frame rail. As you can see from the photos I got tired of removing the white panel and modified it. Also upgraded the water pump and moved it up to the ceiling of the compartment and added a surge tank.  

Latching relay and snap disk location.jpg

Snap disk location.jpg

New pump and surge tank installed above gray tank.jpg

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30 minutes ago, Bob Nodine said:

Shows how different these coaches can be from model to model. Our snap disk is located behind the white panel in the service bay high up near the frame rail. As you can see from the photos I got tired of removing the white panel and modified it. Also upgraded the water pump and moved it up to the ceiling of the compartment and added a surge tank.  

 

Bob,

It’s fascinating to see how different two 2006 Diplomats can be!  I know you’ve made a lot of mods, but is that the original location of your hose reel? I’m planning on reworking my wet bay this spring, - I’ve already purchased most of the components (AquaJet pump, etc) - and have taken a lot of ideas from pics you’ve sent me. 

Have you considered removing the shower?  Mine has never had a hose, and is mostly a nuisance. I use the spigot to wash hands - I have a small hose running from thereto the rinse, but was planning to connect those with  a pex line with a ball valve and check valve. 

Scotty

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20 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Bob,

It’s fascinating to see how different two 2006 Diplomats can be!  I know you’ve made a lot of mods, but is that the original location of your hose reel? I’m planning on reworking my wet bay this spring, - I’ve already purchased most of the components (AquaJet pump, etc) - and have taken a lot of ideas from pics you’ve sent me. 

Have you considered removing the shower?  Mine has never had a hose, and is mostly a nuisance. I use the spigot to wash hands - I have a small hose running from thereto the rinse, but was planning to connect those with  a pex line with a ball valve and check valve. 

Scotty

Scotty,

Our coach was a plain Jane version with almost no options. I have installed many of the options myself including the hose reel and the Sanicon. The OEM hose reel was installed on the opposite side where I now have located the water pump and surge tank. I chose to install the reel where you see it. No  I have no plans to get rid of the shower. We use it often to wash our hands, barbecue grill stuff, and rinse the sand off the Sanicon hose and the bottom of the service area. As you can see I did ditch the RV type shower head for a garden hose sprayer that can be adjusted to different patterns. The garden hose sprayer just screws off the hose adapter end and we can add a hose extension allowing us to put the dog on the tailgate of the truck and give him a bath. That way we can adjust the water temp but if we were using a Y at the site faucet it would be cold water only.

 

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I ran across this "Back Seat Heat Plus 1100 btu 12 Volts/300 watts/25 amps Truck Heater on Amazon.  I just checked again and see the price has jumped from $86 to $123 since the last time I looked at it (the $13 shipping fee is now included in the price).  It looks very similar to wet bay heater and has a similar capacity.  Add the external 35 to 50 degree snap disk in the power coming in and you're all set. 

https://www.amazon.com/RoadWorthy-Back-Seat-Truck-Heater/dp/B0002D6JW8/

 

spacer.png

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1 hour ago, Moonwink said:

I ran across this "Back Seat Heat Plus 1100 btu 12 Volts/300 watts/25 amps Truck Heater on Amazon.  I just checked again and see the price has jumped from $86 to $123 since the last time I looked at it (the $13 shipping fee is now included in the price).  It looks very similar to wet bay heater and has a similar capacity.  Add the external 35 to 50 degree snap disk in the power coming in and you're all set. 

https://www.amazon.com/RoadWorthy-Back-Seat-Truck-Heater/dp/B0002D6JW8/

 

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Thanks.  I finally got my heater out so can test it.  If it's bad this might be the answer.  Hopefully the snap disk is still good.

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13 minutes ago, saflyer said:

Thanks.  I finally got my heater out so can test it.  If it's bad this might be the answer.  Hopefully the snap disk is still good.

If u find out your heater is bad, send it to me and I’ll fix it and keep as spare or re sell it. 👍 I have the repair parts on hand.

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This was SUPPOSED to be for SAFLER.  I would NOT put money into one that has a worse record of what you have.  Read the following....

The backseat heater has a trigger or switch wire....so it would be a "sort of plug...and a whole lot of fitting to play". 

BUT, if you scan or read the 33 rating (2.5 X 5), it's reliability as well as the ability to produce a meaningful amount of heat seems marginal.  There were also comments of it melting and toasting and such.  Personally, the original Cargo Heater was a pretty robust unit....UNTIL the lawyers stepped in.  If you fix one according to the white paper, you should have the equivalent of the older (non fuse protected) heater and the safety of a fusible link.

This unit, based on the ratings does not seem to be on a par with the ORIGINAL Cargo Heaters...   Remember folks for years had NO problems until the added the "Safety" and the safety was not designed properly and all the failures started.  According to the lady that fixed them, all the "new" heaters returned were because of the blown fuse.  SO....the fix... Put in a new one.....which would last until it was used and fail again.  Frank came up with right fix....But Cargo did not want to know about it...

I would SUPPOSE that the logic was that Monaco wanted 12 VDC heater.  OK....but then you put in a 300 watt unit.  That is 25 Amps.  You have 450 Amp Hours of capacity.  You are not supposed to run down your house batteries past 50% SOC.  SO, that means that you have 225 Amp Hours.  OK, you can run the heater for 9 Hours....  assuming FULL duty cycle.

If the heater has failed and you don't want to do the repairs. ....  Then abandon it.  Purchase a Trouble Light (McGil Metal) for maybe $20.  Some SO Cable and a male 3 prong plug.  A short (8 Ft) appliance cord is all you need (assuming you have power on the other side of the bay like I do.  The freeze stat is $20 or so.  Maybe you are in for $50 or so.  You then restrain or make sure the trouble light is in position.  You most likely would have to have been on Shore to run the heater otherwise, you got no house capacity left.

My thought would be to fix the existing one.  If not....then abandon it entirely and use a trouble light.  I would not go to the trouble of figuring out HOW to mount this one and rewiring and such....I think it might let you down and give you a false sense of security...

Just some food for thought.  

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Just looked at the control panel in the wet Bay Area. (Can’t get this stinking thing to stop capitalizing Bay Area.  It must think I’m talking about San Francisco but you all know what the subject is) Anyway removing it to try and find the snap disk is WAY out of my league.  Since I can’t picture needing the wet bay heater I’m going to leave that project for another time.  I’ll just go with Tom’s drop light suggestion if I’m ever in a cold situation.

Thanks for all the help.

Edited by saflyer
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