Unused Wire Connectors in Fresh Water Tank Bay - Heating Pads?

[Bill R]

I have two unused wire connectors in my '06 Windsor 40PDQ Fresh Water Tank Bay.  See pic below.

As I am wanting to install heating pads for the fresh water tank, I was hoping they were connections for heating pads that were an option.  My manual says that turning on the System Heat button should energize the heating pads. But when I turn on the System Heat button, I do not get any voltage to these connectors. My Bay Heater does turn on, so I know I have power to the System Heat.

Based on a wiring diagram provided from this forum, see below, there seems to be a heating pad relay that is energized coming from the snap disc when the System Heat Switch is on.  Would anyone know where this relay might be?  I am hoping that if these connectors are for heating pads, then by locating the fuse and relay I can figure out why I have no power to the connectors.   Otherwise I may have to take out the service bay panel and start tracing wires.  But I am hoping someone on this forum can point me in the right direction first.

Maybe a relay and wires were not even installed since there are no heating pads?  If so, what are these connectors for?  

Sorry for so many questions.  

Thank you for assisting me again, this forum has helped me solve so many issues.

Bay Heater Wiring Diagram.pdf

[ok-rver]

wiring for 2004 Scepter is probably close to your's. dwg 38040913 "diagram, battery compartment" of a searchable group of diagrams I downloaded shows the bay heater power coming off a buss bar with 4 breakers. I looked all over for the breaker bar until I remembered that there was something in the flat panel with cover in my rear battery compartment. the cover said one of the items inside was solar. there is a relay connected to the buss bar on mine that I did not research but I believe it could be for tank heaters. I have not found the two connectors you have but have not pulled the inside cover off in my water/sewer compartment. they may be there. My water faucet is dripping water. will probably will have to pull cover when I fix.

[Bill R]

Thanks Mike,

I downloaded the diagram and unfortunately it does not appear to be the same as mine.  Unless I am not looking at it correctly.  I may have to start tracing from the snap disc.  

[johncvandoren@gmail.com]

11 hours ago, Bill R said:

I have two unused wire connectors in my '06 Windsor 40PDQ Fresh Water Tank Bay.  See pic below.

As I am wanting to install heating pads for the fresh water tank, I was hoping they were connections for heating pads that were an option.  My manual says that turning on the System Heat button should energize the heating pads. But when I turn on the System Heat button, I do not get any voltage to these connectors. My Bay Heater does turn on, so I know I have power to the System Heat.

Based on a wiring diagram provided from this forum, see below, there seems to be a heating pad relay that is energized coming from the snap disc when the System Heat Switch is on.  Would anyone know where this relay might be?  I am hoping that if these connectors are for heating pads, then by locating the fuse and relay I can figure out why I have no power to the connectors.   Otherwise I may have to take out the service bay panel and start tracing wires.  But I am hoping someone on this forum can point me in the right direction first.

Maybe a relay and wires were not even installed since there are no heating pads?  If so, what are these connectors for?  

Sorry for so many questions.  

Thank you for assisting me again, this forum has helped me solve so many issues.

Bay Heater Wiring Diagram.pdf 55.6 kB · 11 downloads

My wet bay has two similar molex connectors, and I believe one is for an optional hose reel, although I have no room for any such reel, the other for the shore power cord reel, which i do have in the rear bay.

[Bill R]

10 hours ago, johncvandoren@gmail.com said:

My wet bay has two similar molex connectors, and I believe one is for an optional hose reel, although I have no room for any such reel, the other for the shore power cord reel, which i do have in the rear bay.

Thank you John for sharing that these molex connectors you think are for you hose and power cord reels.  That does seem strange why they would have them in the potable water tank bay.  Anyway, are your connectors powered?  If so, how?   As I mentioned in my earlier post, I do not have any power to these connectors, and if I knew how they are powered, I might be able to use them as a source of power for heating pads.  Trying to minimize work and effort to run wire for heating pads to the potable water tank.

[jacwjames]

Bill,

I was looking at my wiring diagram, besides the "Cold Weather Relay" in my passenger side rear electrical bay I also have a 30 amp circuit breaker that is mounted to the copper buss bar at the bottom of the bay.  There is a separate one for the "System Heat" circuit which provides power to the small wet bay heater.  If you don't have the relay and/or circuit breaker I doubt you coach was prewired for the cold weather package.

My coach came prewired for the optional Cold Weather Package, I just got luck and found the extra wires on top of my black tank earlier last year.  With the circuit breaker, relay, and  wires already installed it was pretty easy installing the heating pads. 

[jacwjames]

Also, after thinking about this if the two connectors are for either a hose reel or power cable reel they should be protected by a fuse and or circuit breaker.  Do you have any circuit breakers on the buss bar (if you have one) in the rear electrical bay.  On my electrical schematic it shows a cord reel even though I don' have one and can't remember if there is an actual breaker.

If you are unsuccessful in finding a heat pad harness you may have to take the time and wire one in.  The hardest part would be running the wires for power.  You could put a separate switch in for this that just turns it off/on.  The heating pads I bought have an internal thermostat which controls them so you wouldn't necessarily tie into the existing snap disc as the wiring diagrams show. 

[johncvandoren@gmail.com]

2 hours ago, Bill R said:

Thank you John for sharing that these molex connectors you think are for you hose and power cord reels.  That does seem strange why they would have them in the potable water tank bay.  Anyway, are your connectors powered?  If so, how?   As I mentioned in my earlier post, I do not have any power to these connectors, and if I knew how they are powered, I might be able to use them as a source of power for heating pads.  Trying to minimize work and effort to run wire for heating pads to the potable water tank.

My Wet Bay is below all the tanks. And I found those wires & connectors on top of the black & grey tanks.  Then I found fuses in the front run bay for both hose and power cord reels.  My power cord reel is in the far rear bay where the ATS/Surge Protector is mounted.  No buss bar or relays there.  Hope this helps.

[Dr4Film]

20 hours ago, jacwjames said:

The heating pads I bought have an internal thermostat which controls them so you wouldn't necessarily tie into the existing snap disc as the wiring diagrams show. 

Jim,

Where on the tanks did you install the after-market heating pads?

Don't they go under the tanks when factory installed?

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

Jim,

Where on the tanks did you install the after-market heating pads?

Don't they go under the tanks when factory installed?

Richard,

Yes, the heating pads that I installed are suppose to be on the bottom of the tanks.  I was able to drain the fresh water tank and lift it up enough to install two of the pads.  The fresh water tank was sitting on top of a piece styrofoam but I had enough room to fit two underneath.  I put one spanning across the bottom of the black and gray water, this was actually harder since I couldn't lift those tanks due to the drains mounted on the top but I was actually able to force the shelf they were sitting on down and then slide the pads underneath.  The pads came with a self adhesive on the back, I was able to peel off some of the paper, slide the pad underneath, and slowly pull the rest of the paper off. 

On all three I used a fused connector and I actually left to fuse out the black and gray since there was a warning on the heating pad not to try and heat an empty tank.  The way mine are wired the small wet bay heater has to be on before the heating pads come on. 

I've been checking the temps of the tanks during cold weather and they seem to stay ~45-50F.  Last Nov I was traveling in cold weather, down below 20F but the tanks were ~48F when I checked them with a heat gun.

Since all the wiring was already in place I just had to buy the heating pad ~$150 and fuse holders.  Well worth the cost and effort. 

One thing that I did after my trip was install a small indicator light in the bedroom so I can see when the heating pads are working.   In the cold weather I never knew if they were working since my system heat light is up a the front of the coach.  Not knowing drove me crazy.  I never did see it come on until I was driving in really cold weather, having the light will calm my nerves. 

[Larry Maida]

I have the system with the heater. It only activates when temps in bay are less than 40 deg

[Bill R]

On 1/27/2022 at 8:57 AM, jacwjames said:

Also, after thinking about this if the two connectors are for either a hose reel or power cable reel they should be protected by a fuse and or circuit breaker.  Do you have any circuit breakers on the buss bar (if you have one) in the rear electrical bay.  On my electrical schematic it shows a cord reel even though I don' have one and can't remember if there is an actual breaker.

If you are unsuccessful in finding a heat pad harness you may have to take the time and wire one in.  The hardest part would be running the wires for power.  You could put a separate switch in for this that just turns it off/on.  The heating pads I bought have an internal thermostat which controls them so you wouldn't necessarily tie into the existing snap disc as the wiring diagrams show. 

Thank you Jim, John, Richard and all.  I still need a bit of hand holding on this.  I have become quite familiar with a lot of the systems, but the passenger side electrical bay is one I feel the least competent.  So I have attached pictures below of mine.  '06 Windsor 40PDQ.  If I have the cold weather relay or circuitry then I don't know how to recognize it.  Thus the attached pics for help if someone could point it out if I have such a beast?

My strategy is to upgrade my System Heat heater fan to be like what Richard has shared in previous posts (RoadPro).  And then tie in heating pads for the tanks.  Either independently or preferably as one system using the System Heat if possible.  But, first steps first. 

1) Identify if there is a heat system type relay, which I need help with identifying in my electrical bay.  Pics below

2)  Pull the wet bay panel off and see if I have any wires on top of the black and grey tanks as many of you said you had, and trace wiring to find source of power for System Heat if not in electrical bay.

3)  Identify what the two unused molex wires are that I have in the fresh water tank bay.  These may be able to help me, or may not help at all.  I will probably put a signal generator on those to see where they are going. 

All my appreciation in advance for any help.

[jacwjames]

Your first picture shows the house & chassis disconnects along with the circuit breakers.   Also has your isolation relay that combines the battery banks. 

Your second photo has 3 fuse holders for the engine/transmission circuits.  It also shows the copper buss bar that holds small circuit breakers, this is where all of my circuits for the wet bay heater and cold weather package gets its power.  I have a 30 amp CB for the wet bay heater, a 5 amp CB for the System Heat Switch, and a 30 amp CB for the Cold Weather package.  There are a couple others also.  All of these are shown on the label that is attached to the door for this compartment. 

On my coach the relay for the cold weather package is attached at the top of this compartment right next to the relay that provided power to the battery maintainer that I have since removed and installed the Bluesea ML ACR.  

There is a signal relay at the top of the compartment in the second picture, do you know what this is for.  This would be the only candidate that might be a cold weather package relay if you have one.   It does look like it might provide power to a circuit, two larger wires carry the power and are switched with the other wires.   Can you trace these wires.   

Do you have a label showing all of these components.  Do you have the electrical schematic for your coach?   Mine shows all the circuits in pretty good detail 

Edited January 28, 2022 by jacwjames

[Bill R]

5 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Your first picture shows the house & chassis disconnects along with the circuit breakers.   Also has your isolation relay that combines the battery banks. 

Your second photo has 3 fuse holders for the engine/transmission circuits.  It also shows the copper buss bar that holds small circuit breakers, this is where all of my circuits for the wet bay heater and cold weather package gets its power.  I have a 30 amp CB for the wet bay heater, a 5 amp CB for the System Heat Switch, and a 30 amp CB for the Cold Weather package.  There are a couple others also.  All of these are shown on the label that is attached to the door for this compartment. 

On my coach the relay for the cold weather package is attached at the top of this compartment right next to the relay that provided power to the battery maintainer that I have since removed and installed the Bluesea ML ACR.  

There is a signal relay at the top of the compartment in the second picture, do you know what this is for.  This would be the only candidate that might be a cold weather package relay if you have one.   It does look like it might provide power to a circuit, two larger wires carry the power and are switched with the other wires.   Can you trace these wires.   

Do you have a label showing all of these components.  Do you have the electrical schematic for your coach?   Mine shows all the circuits in pretty good detail 

Thanks Jim, I am embarrassed to say I have not looked on the panel door to see if there is a schematic.  My only excuse is that the door would have been above me and I didn't bother to look up.  I'll check to see if there is one.  I'll also check that relay you pointed out to see if it powers the System Heat.  I do not have any schematics for this electric bay.  I do of the coach but it does not include this bay.  Thank you for pointing me in a direction to begin investigating.  I will report back what I find out and go from there.

[jacwjames]

Bill,

I checked the down loads section and there is a wiring diagram for your coach.  I went through it and on page 41 of 61 there is a drawing of your passenger side rear run bay.  Based on this drawing the relay in the upper left hand side of the panel the relay I mentioned in my post is for the Cold Weather Package.  It also shows there is a 30 amp Circuit Breaker on the copper buss bar at the bottom (plus a 5 amp & 30 amp CB for the System Heat which is the small heater fan). 

Earlier in the wiring schematic there was a page on the System heat and optional cold weather package & heating pads.  It did show a wiring connector similar to what you had in one of your pictures so I'm wondering if those were for the heating pads??? 

So it looks like your coach is prewired for heating pads,

I found my wires on the Passenger Side of my coach sitting on top of the black tank.  a Red and With 10 awg wire coiled in a black plastic loom covering.   I checked mine by turning the system heat switch on and taking the two wires on the snap disc and connecting them together to force the small heater to run and then checked voltage on the wires.  From there it, as they say, the rest was history!!

You may have to get a wire tracer to pin point the wires. 

[Bill R]

12 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Bill,

I checked the down loads section and there is a wiring diagram for your coach.  I went through it and on page 41 of 61 there is a drawing of your passenger side rear run bay.  Based on this drawing the relay in the upper left hand side of the panel the relay I mentioned in my post is for the Cold Weather Package.  It also shows there is a 30 amp Circuit Breaker on the copper buss bar at the bottom (plus a 5 amp & 30 amp CB for the System Heat which is the small heater fan). 

Earlier in the wiring schematic there was a page on the System heat and optional cold weather package & heating pads.  It did show a wiring connector similar to what you had in one of your pictures so I'm wondering if those were for the heating pads??? 

So it looks like your coach is prewired for heating pads,

I found my wires on the Passenger Side of my coach sitting on top of the black tank.  a Red and With 10 awg wire coiled in a black plastic loom covering.   I checked mine by turning the system heat switch on and taking the two wires on the snap disc and connecting them together to force the small heater to run and then checked voltage on the wires.  From there it, as they say, the rest was history!!

You may have to get a wire tracer to pin point the wires. 

Jim, so awesome!

I found the drawing you mentioned.  Exactly how my panel is.  Now to start checking voltages and start tracing.  On my way!!  Will provide an update on what I found.

[jacwjames]

I would start at the relay and make sure it has power going to it, one of the large red wires should be carrying voltage.  The if you bypass the snap disc for the wet bay heater the relay should kick in and you should have voltage on the other wire. 

Then you'll have to find with the power terminates near the tanks, it could be the connectors you show but I thought you said you tested them.  If not there should be a par of ~10 awg wires that would supply power to the tank pad heaters when the snap disc is closed and sends voltage that way. 

[Bill R]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:20 AM, jacwjames said:

I would start at the relay and make sure it has power going to it, one of the large red wires should be carrying voltage.  The if you bypass the snap disc for the wet bay heater the relay should kick in and you should have voltage on the other wire. 

Then you'll have to find with the power terminates near the tanks, it could be the connectors you show but I thought you said you tested them.  If not there should be a par of ~10 awg wires that would supply power to the tank pad heaters when the snap disc is closed and sends voltage that way. 

Jim and all.......I got it!!!!

The bus bar at the bottom of the rear electrical panel shown in the pic in a previous post does power the Bay Heater with one of the 30A breakers.  The other 30A breaker powers the relay at the top left of the electrical panel.  The System Heat button inside the coach powers both the snap disc in the wet bay and the relay in the electrical bay when it is turned on.   When the snap disc in the wet bay gets below 40F it will energize the Bay Heater internal relay and turn the Heater on.  And then off at 55F.   So when I had the System Heat button on, the Bay Heater would turn on and the relay in the electrical panel was energized, BUT..........there was NO power coming out of the relay.  Obviously a bad relay.  When I bypassed the relay to provide power to the exiting wire..........BOOM.........I had power at both of the harnesses in the fresh water tank bay.   So GOOD.

Now all I need to do is get a new relay (now I know for sure this is the cold weather package relay), two heating pads, install, and be all set.

For me the moral of the story is even if you have all the correct wiring diagrams, you still need help from others who can lead the way.  THANK-YOU to all who responded, and Kudos to Jim for helping me land.   Thank you everyone....SUCESS!!!!!

[jacwjames]

Well that is great news.  Glad you got it figured out.

The relay should be easy to get and replace.  Tank heaters can be found on AMAZON or Ebay. 

I installed 2 under my fresh water tank and one under the gray & Black.  The ones I got said they were good for 50 gallon, my fresh water tank is 100 when full.