Black Box Hostages

[Gary Cole]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/new-senate-bill-farm-equipment-right-to-repair-rcna1396

No one person understands how the black boxes work these days. Much of the design and manufacturing work is by multiple contractors. Oftentimes the individual components on the circuit boards do not have a traceable part number or they are completely mysterious integrated chips. 

Obtaining the necessary software is next to impossible by design.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Gary Cole

[Rick A]

It’d be better if they called it Control Box. We all understand that concept in basic terms! 

[JDCrow]

Interesting read.  I have 2 pieces of equipment and purposely bought older pre emission. 
 

My new to me Ford F-350 I can program myself with an open source program, Forscan. Our F150 and the F350 both have telemetries that report back to Ford. 

Tesla can read everything that goes on with their cars, and even can disable them completely. It’s been rumored that totaled Teslas are just done, cannot be repaired. Just rumors at this point.

To be honest though, I’ve had so much problems with non oem shops diagnosing and and working on my trucks in the past, I’ll only use the dealers now. 

[DavidL]

I was responsible for Advanced Engineering for Connected Services (Uconnect Brand) for Fiat/ Chrysler (FCA).

Before FCA when it was "DCX" I had several meetings with John Deer on all things connected vehicles and serviceability.  And before that I was responsible for Chrysler / DCX service strategy.

Then FCA came about, with that comes Case New Holland and now I was in competition with John Deer so the discussions ended.

 

But....the high line John Deer tractor is SO ADVANCED there ain't no chance in hell a guy that is good at farming will be able to efficiently, safely and practically service a state of the art JD tractor that farms the field WITHOUT the farmer in it.  The Reason that farmer spent $1-4Mill on that tractor is FOR those features.  So I love these yahoo articles that the reporters have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about to bring this up as an "intentional" design to cut out serviceability.

These guys are thinking you just turn the carb screw a little clockwise to lean out the mixture a bit.  Those days are long gone for reliability, efficiency, environmental, cost, AND serviceability (by those with the right training and tools).  And your food will be less expensive and taste better because of it.

Now, on an RV forum where the users are typically very senior, won't understand this all that well because it's out of their comfort zone.

But it is what it is.

 

 

"My new to me Ford F-350 I can program myself with an open source program, Forscan. Our F150 and the F350 both have telemetries that report back to Ford."

Yes, you can access relatively minor aspects of the basic engine controller values that control things like wastegate pressure, fuel pressure etc.  But this is totally kid stuff compared to what's going on in a modern auto and ridiculous comparison to an autonomous John Deere tractor.  This is more similar to the ole "hot rodder" who can put a stronger spring on the waste gate to increase boost.

 

"Tesla can read everything that goes on with their cars, and even can disable them completely. It’s been rumored that totaled Teslas are just done, cannot be repaired. Just rumors at this point."

Yes, they have connectivity and can see lots of data on the vehicle CAN bus.  I was the feature owner of that for FCA.  I called it "Generic CAN Messenger" and "Service and Quality Data Feed (SQDF).   And yes, can disable them (so can many other car makers that started with GM's OnStar program many years ago).  Wrong that Teslas cannot be repaired.  Yes, those are unfounded rumors.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by DavidL

[JDCrow]

Carb screw LOL.

When I get into the Forscan on my Ford, there are so many sensors and modules that you have to be carful what values you put in. You can totally screw up your truck and render it useless. Always back up the original program so I can return to it. 
 

We do basic stuff, allow the fog lights to stay on with the Brights, get rid of the dang horn honk when you leave the truck running and walk away with the keys. 
 

Again, I’ll only let factory trainer dealers into my truck. I’ve only ran into young man who has taken the time to get serous education for the new hybrids and electric vehicles. But he struggled a bit with my “basic” Fords. 

[Endeavor to RV]

The issue the article is addressing is choice of who does the repair. Right now John Deere does not have to share their diagnostic software and information. They are forced to wait for a JD tech to from the dealer to repair their equipment. JD essentially has a monopoly on the repair of their equipment. 

The independent farm equipment shops will learn how to repair the new stuff once they have access to software and information. I'm a independent mechanic now, but spent the first half of my career at a new car dealer. I have access to the same information now I did at the dealer. There are training and teaching tools for independent mechanics to keep current. Once farm equipment has the same rules as the auto industry the independents will learn and offered a valued service to farmers and equipment operators.

[Gary Cole]

What I find troubling about todays networked black box vehicles is the exorbitant cost of replacement components. Manufacturers are able to charge whatever they want because an aftermarket source does not exist for obvious reasons. $1000.00 for a box which cost $10.00 to design and manufacture in an overseas Asian factory is the new norm. The fact that the components are largely non repairable has to be seen as a plus for the vehicle manufacturers. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Gary Cole