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Black Tank Treatment


Guest bobstromain

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Guest bobstromain

I never had any issues with treatment in the last 17 years until the past 6 months or so.  Using the tissue recommended for RV or Marine tissue, tried 3 different treatments and none of them dissolving tissue as it should.   Causes the valve to not totally seal off.  I changed the valve, and it sealed for a while.  After serious flushing it finally sealed again.  Any recommendations of a good product is appreciated.

Bob St. Romain

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many discussions on the topic.

1) leave the tank closed while using and dump when near full

2) dump the black and then the grey

3) use correct paper and no sanitary products into the toilet

4) use one of many treatments for both smell and to break down waste in the tank

5) Driving sloshes and breaks up solids

6) dump all at once when needed

7) Many tanks have a flush that should be used regularly.  One poster recently created a thread on an automatic flush system he devised to do this for you.

😎 if above fails, Use a Jetter nozzle on a power washer hose, insert into a modified clear elbow that is plumbed to a drain tank and power wash the insides like new.  Not a pretty job, but effective.

 

If just the valve isn't sealing, replace the blade post draining tanks.  Easy job.  Inexpensive.   Don't overtighten. That's my guess of where the problem really is.

Put a clear lid on the end to contain any leak by.

 

 

Edited by DavidL
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I know that I'll be in minority but here goes.

When we bought our first Class C in 1997 one of my wife's friends, who was a very senior RV'er, advised us not to put toilet paper down the commode.  She had a small waste basket beside the toilet and put TP in there and then just threw that away.  She never had a problem.  So that's what we've done for the last 25 years.  Anyone that comes to visit and/or stays with us is asked to do the same thing (our house our rules).  We have never had a problem with out tanks or dumping. 

We do not use any type of treatment especially since I've built a house & RV garage with a dump that goes to the septic tank, don't want to take a chance on killing the bacteria in the tank.  Anyone that visits, parks, and hooks up to the dump is asked not to use an treatment and make sure they dump before they come to visit (our house our rules).  We don't have a problem with any odors etc and since we don't put TP down the commode no blockage. 

 

About 12 years ago we were at the Oshkosh Dog show with a friend, all having to boon dock.  After a week as we were getting ready to leave we were going to dump.  We went first, the site had a strange style dump, basically a large concrete trough you pulled up to and let it rip, and then it all drained into a large hole, not the most pleasant of experiences but you do what you got to do.  We finished and pulled forward and my wife's friend pulled up.  When she opened her black tank valve nothing happen, she was frantic on what to do.  There were a bunch of people in line and someone suggested we try rocking the coach (~40' Class A) so a bunch of got next to coach and in rhythm we all pushed back and forth.  All of a sudden all S%#T broke loose literally.  It was ~50% TP, a thick sludge, but it finally did drain.   Not sure if she used any type of treatment or not, but with the amount of TP it probably wouldn't have made any difference. 

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I have a Valterra shut off valve that attaches to drain pipe. I keep it and the tank valves closed. When the gray water tank is full, I open the gray water then the black water. Since there is more gray than black water, it flows into the black tank. When the water level is equal, I close the black valve and open the Valterra valve and drain the gray. Close the gray and Valterra and go through the same procedure again when the gray is full. When the black tank is full, open the Valterra valve then the black valve and drain the black. When empty close Valterra and open gray and let it flow till water level is equal with the black tank and then close gray and open Valterra. If you have a clear plastic fitting you will see solids (which seem to be lighter than water) flowing out at the end of this step meaning that the solids are still on the tank bottom. After about 3 transfers from the 60 gallons of the gray water tank, you probably will not have any solids flowing out. It is much faster than filling the whole black tank to drain again just to have the solids remain on the bottom. 

Gary 05 AMB DST

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I have been RVing for way too long. I have used every thing from the porty potty in our first popup to the electric commode in our class A.

We have never put anything in the black tank that did not come from our bodies.

Most tanks range in size from 20-80 gallons depending on the RV size. That being said, the black tanks on RV"s are not septic tanks.

No amount of "additive" of any kind will have time to work to break down waste and paper before the tank fills and has to be dumped.

We have used the same House Rules as Jim does and have never had an issue with the tanks or valves.

Thanks to Vito for the tip on Dawn dish liquid to make the drains smell sweet. My wife insists on a product that CW sells at about $8/ quart but that is about to change.

 

Cliff

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Just to add our two cents.  We have been doing this for more than 25 years, and full timing for over 17.  At first we followed the toilet paper wars, which one broke down better etc.  Then later we used and still use regular TP, we are constantly on the move except for 4 months in Florida for the winter so the tanks get sloshed a lot.  Your house your rules is your business, but in this house there is no way the TP isn't going in the toilet!  We also add Happy Camper to the black tank.  We dump about once a week, we leave the gray open until a day before dumping, then close the gray valve, my wife does a couple loads of wash, a few showers etc and the gray tank is full.  Then using our Sani-Con we dump the black then leaving the black valve open, open the gray to allow gray into the black tank, about 25%, then close the gray, and dump the black again, we do that until 25% is left in the gray tank and then close the black, and open the gray and pump the rest of the gray through the hose.  Every month we use the black tank washer several fills, no problems so far, no plugs, no masses of TP, we have a clear section at the Sani-Con so we can see, no smells, works good.  JMO

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I use regular toilet paper and have no issues. Have for 5 years (?) now. A lot of this black tank stuff is over thought. What I do (currently) is put a Green Gobbler in the tank when empty and then I don't drain it until it's full. When flushing, for me that's about two weeks, the toilet paper is well dissolved and hard to see as it goes out the drain. In fact, pretty much everything is nothing but liquid. You see the odd clump of toilet paper but that is because it's recent. The vast majority is just liquified. 

Green Gobbler's work as well as any of the other 'treatments' and probably better. They are much cheaper and can be gotten anywhere. They are made for septic tanks so they are appropriately 'overkill' for the black tank in a motorhome. But they will eat pretty much everything in that two week window.

Besides that, how often in life do you get to say you threw a green goblin down your toilet?? 🤣

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We have always added a few drops of virgin coconut oil to the tank to always keep valves operating smoothly. We use regular toilet paper and flush with indicated flush valve. Just got to give it about 10 minutes to flush and clean sensors. Of course that’s just us. Camp about 4 days a month. 

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On 2/3/2022 at 10:52 AM, DavidL said:

many discussions on the topic.

1) leave the tank closed while using and dump when near full

2) dump the black and then the grey

3) use correct paper and no sanitary products into the toilet

4) use one of many treatments for both smell and to break down waste in the tank

5) Driving sloshes and breaks up solids

6) dump all at once when needed

7) Many tanks have a flush that should be used regularly.  One poster recently created a thread on an automatic flush system he devised to do this for you.

😎 if above fails, Use a Jetter nozzle on a power washer hose, insert into a modified clear elbow that is plumbed to a drain tank and power wash the insides like new.  Not a pretty job, but effective.

 

If just the valve isn't sealing, replace the blade post draining tanks.  Easy job.  Inexpensive.   Don't overtighten. That's my guess of where the problem really is.

Put a clear lid on the end to contain any leak by.

 

 

In my opinion, there's not much more to say about black tanks that that... And I think folks tend to make it way more complicated than it needs to be.

I've got kind of a unique perspective because I dump by gravity through a 1" hose adapter on the dump valves. For a variety of reasons, I didn't want to install a 3" or 4" waste line for my rv parking spot so I buried 100' of 1" PVC in the yard to connect the motorhome with the septic. I use the motorhome as an office during the week and use the restroom like any other restroom. I use no additives, have no odors and discharge the black tank about once a week .  This setup has shown me that toilet paper and solids break down on their own pretty quickly and even a 3/4" dump hose will pass the slurry just fine. As long as David's guidelines above are followed, there really shouldn't be any issues.

Anyway... back to the original issue of the gate valve getting fouled... I suspect the OP's problem is having paper slurry in the gateway while closing the valve, smashing it into the gate's channel. Maybe try flushing the toilet several times after the dump to try and clear most of the paper slurry from that area before closing the valve? My personal approach is to back-flush the black valve with water from the gray tank, but that's hard to do with a conventional 3" dump hose.

Or maybe get a flushing elbow to rinse that area after you dump? Like this: https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-F02-4100-Hydroflush-Removable-Anti-siphon/dp/B0002UHVAA

Cheers,

Walter

Edited by wamcneil
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We started with an Airstream in 2006. My wife doesn’t trust household toilet paper but I do so to keep the Missus happy, we use RV toilet paper.

I used to use the Orange stuff in little packets and add one every day. Not long ago I switched to Digest-it by Unique. It is an enzyme that, well, digest the solids. They make a sensor cleaner formula as well. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=unique+rv+digest-it+holding+tank+treatment&crid=1HXLVCIFPHBB8&sprefix=unique%2Caps%2C101&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_4_6

So far no odor & seems to dissolve everything. It was recommended by the National RV Training Academy. 

Happy Camper is also good. I’d probably use Happy Camper if I couldn’t get Digest-it. 

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I also use Digest-it but mostly only for long boondocking stays and not picky with paper. But I never had a problem with the gravity drain when not using anything, so while I assume that it works, it's really just for a peace of mind between flushes to me. I carry a secondary dump valve for just in case and never needed it yet. I don't spend much time on this subject. 

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  • 11 months later...

I have had good success using this Walex BIO-PAK 11530 holding tank treatment on a 30 ft Jayco Travel Trailer black tank for the past 4 years.. The tank contents appears to come out relatively clean and I've never had any odor problems. But I also perform additional cleaning and flushing multiple times a year using Pinesol and Dawn dish soap, and occasionally a couple bags of ice in the black tank while traveling between destinations. So this product works well for me over the past 4 years and I have not had the need to try something else. 

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My black tank and grey tank were not flushing as well as they should and the resulting odors were not pleasant.

after some investigation I found that the whirly birds in both tanks were not working any more (20 years old).

Found replacements at Camping World on line and they were actually less expensive than the rest.

Long story short the tanks now get clean and odors gone.IMG_1755.thumb.JPG.73eecab8205a54bfdc740fa25e06ebeb.JPGIMG_1756.thumb.JPG.f1678457cee84c3564eff343284333d8.JPG

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Guest Ray Davis
11 hours ago, Dalton07 said:

My RV's bathroom compartment runs the risk of developing a bad odor over time. Additionally, the possibility of the waste getting contaminated by my moving RV exists. Therefore, employing this holding tank treatment to treat my water tank is appropriate.

  I'm confused  what do you mean by "  the possibility of the waste getting contaminated "  I'd say waste is contamination  and  who puts holding tank treatment in their water tank?

Did you get the words water and waste reversed?     

There should be no way your fresh water tank can become contaminated by your waste holding tanks

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36 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

  I'm confused  what do you mean by "  the possibility of the waste getting contaminated "  I'd say waste is contamination  and  who puts holding tank treatment in their water tank?

Did you get the words water and waste reversed?     

There should be no way your fresh water tank can become contaminated by your waste holding tanks

Interesting.  I'm no expert, but after over 14 years of reading daily all the posts here to learn....and then moderating for over 10 years, where I DO read most if not all of the daily posts....I'll add a little.  If you search here, there are over 10 pages of posts in various topics.  They include Dump Valves sticking; waste/black tank sensors; Sanicon problems;  back flush issues; and probably some that I missed.

The debate has gone on way before that....going back to the "Geo Method" for cleaning and maintaining tanks compared to purchasing chemical compared to using no chemicals.  Enter in the "what to do when I store"....which has a large impact on how your systems work.  I don't pretend to be an expert from a chemistry standpoint as to the biodegradation of human wastes and toilet paper.  But, I was involved in process engineering and had to help plants in rural areas or South America maintain their domestic septic tanks as well as having my own septic tank and also being in charge of maintenance and having to clean and reline about 6/10's of a mile (over 3000 ft or 10 football fields) of sewer lines ...and having to deal with industrial macerators (Sanicons)....I'll offer this

  • Most folks, not full timers, are better off using the RV TP. There are many, but for the best "hygiene" based on feed back from wee kids to elderly, the Camco 2 Ply works better.  Some folks have purchased cheaper ones.  I knew one full timer that actually ran his own "dissolve" test where he took about 3 or 4 sheet (tear offs) of the Camco and compared it to some of the major brands.  He finally found a really cheap, but not "scratchy" brand that dissolved as fast.  He had quart jars with water and then put in the paper and shook them for about 15 seconds....let them sit and then did that every few hours or maybe days.  That is pushing it....but that is the only way to ensure that you get wastes dissolving.  YES....driving does speed up the process...so you travel and camp habits impact it.  NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL.
  • Odors are something that often depend on the vent system of the MH and the valving.  I have NOT done a lot of crawling and looking up under my sink in the toilet room.  I DO know that I have a Vacuum breaker and if I "abuse" my black flush system, it will burp and you think that you  have a water leak.  There are many posts here on that.
  • As to ODORS.....your nose and your perception and maybe the prevailing winds and also your eating habits and such dictate IF you need to use something to reduce odors. I read the "BEST" article.  It was, IMHO, written by someone with a smidge of RV knowledge, but was paid to write it.  How much testing went into it versus the "financial credits" for listing the product and the vendors and such...I know NOT. Folks have used about every chemical known or supposedly known. they include (couldn't figure out how to indent
  • Ridex - septic tank bacteria supplement.  Many of our older members and founders said this was the gold standard (cheap).  However, the most popular Tank Sensor vendor (SeeLevel) says NO DO NOT USE....I tried that.  OK....but it will NOT help digest quicker nor will it keep the sidewalls clean.
  • Speaking of SIDEWALLS.....that is the number one reason that folks complain about the idiot lights not working.  The idiot light sensors are just DC probes and they make a circuit.  Mine, along with countless thousands who post here and other places, are not very accurate.  WHY....simple.  You get a sludge (urine, feces, TP, etc) built up on the interior walls.  When you dump and that crud or coating or sludge dries out....NO CIRCUIT.  But, drive and then rewet it or camp and it dries out but you keep flushing, the capillary action or wicking UP on this coating will make a circuit....so it is FALSE.  Even the SeeLevel Capacitance system needs CLEAN walls....folks have installed them and they don't work. SeeLevel has specific instructions on how to clean and keep clean the interior walls so they work.  BUT, they are, properly maintained, a whole lot more accurate than the probes.
  • OTHER Witch's brew (reminds me of the old song...Love Potion # 9...."She mixed it up in the sink...it looked like India Ink....).  I have tried many of the cleaners and used the GeoMethod and such.  I gave up on my sensors.....and just dump regularly....usually based on the GRAY tank.  I have tried various additives....and Happy Camper, based on my one man experiment...works about as good as any....I tried their cleaners and the results were probably OK, as I did NOT drop a camera into the black tank....but the sensor accuracy never improved.
  • Sanicon, both the instructions and from talking to one of the DEVELOPMENT techs, suggests that you use the BACKWASHING method.  Drain the Black Tank....then allow the Gray Tank to fill the Black tank....then repeat.  OMG....some say....your Gray Tank will be CONTAMINATED.  GUESS WHAT....it already is and it will stay "SEPTIC" based on the sewer definition.  All the particles of food that are washed off doing the dishes start to Biodegrade....YES....not like human wastes...but CERTAINLY not potable.  The left over soap and detergent actually DO clean the black tank and keep it healthier and cleaner....  Sometime use a clear section on the dump valve....and watch the final dregs of the gray tank come out.  There is a whitish looking gunk of decaying food and whatever there...mixed with the left over soaps....so USE IT.
  • Backflushing and how to do it or NOT.  The pictures show a common problem.  Mine does not, I think, have the "Whirly Gig" style. I have a cover and it would take a SawsAll and a LOT of brute force to get to my backflush device or insert.  Here is what I use and others have found it helpful.  I use a Washing machine hose or a short length of hose.  I have a Washing Machine Filter (washer) between the outside hookup backflush fitting and the hose.  I use Teflon tape and it stay hooked up. On the end of the hose, I have a 1/4 turn valve....one of the Full Flow (more expensive) ones.  I then can turn ON and OFF my backflush.  With the Sanicon, I need some head pressure, so I will run the backflush for a few minutes.....then open the black valve and turn on the Sanicon.  Would work the same way for Gravity.  I then shut the black valve.  I turn OFF the backflush and then open the gray valve (remember....I use a Sanicon) and let the black tank fill.  You could do the same when the tanks were dropping....
  • FINAL ITEM.  Do NOT GET EVERY milliliter of water or wastes out.  That is a big mistake.  That is what I did for years before going to storage.  I changed so that I leave a few gallons in EACH tank.  I mix in the Happy Camper....one scoop for the Black and half for the Gray.  I never let my tanks fill up totally.  The water and chemicals continue to allow the bildgrading.....and that has actually IMPROVED the accuracy of the probes.
  • NOW....for the long term winter.....I DO drain the tanks....but when I dewinterize, I put in maybe 5 plus gallons and TWO scoops in the black and ONE in the Gray and driving it helps.  SOME folks use the ICE CUBES to slosh and abrade and knock off some of the crud on the sidewalls.  Probably, from a common sense thing, works.  Some will dump their tanks at the CG, then put in maybe 2-5 gallons in each one and usually the chemicals....then right before they pull out....dump half the ice into each one.

That's my take on it.....this is s a composite of all the stuff that I read....pondered and actually experimented with....  Right WRONG or Indifferent....it works for me....

  • OK..nak
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Tom, I've been using your method for years. No Sanicon but I do have a Valterra shut off valve on my drain pipe. I wait for the gray to fill, sometimes I'll drain the gray into the black tank till they are at an equal level, close the gray and wait for gray to fill and do the process again. When it's time to drain, close the gray valve, open Valterra and black valve, drain the black, close the Valterra valve and open gray valve and fill the black with the remaining gray. Close the gray valve and open the Valterra and drain black. It amazes me that I can do this 3 or 4 times and still get TP out of the black tank. WHEW. It is harder explaining it than doing it.

I have heard of putting a hole in the end of the black on the passenger side with a fitting of some kind to keep the black in the tank. Drain the black tank, open the fitting, plug or cap, and spray the black tank with a power washer. Haven't seen anything to confirm this, any ideas?

Gary 05 AMB DST

Edited by Gary 05 AMB DST
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17 minutes ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said:

Tom, I've been using your method for years. No Sanicon but I do have a Valterra shut off valve on my drain pipe. I wait for the gray to fill, sometimes I'll drain the gray into the black tank till they are at an equal level, close the gray and wait for gray to fill and do the process again. When it's time to drain, close the gray valve, open Valterra and black valve, drain the black, close the Valterra valve and open gray valve and fill the black with the remaining gray. Close the gray valve and open the Valterra and drain black. It amazes me that I can do this 3 or 4 times and still get TP out of the black tank. WHEW. It is harder explaining it than doing it.

I have heard of putting a hole in the end of the black on the passenger side with a fitting of some kind to keep the black in the tank. Drain the black tank, open the fitting, plug or cap, and spray the black tank with a power washer. Haven't seen anything to confirm this, any ideas?

Gary 05 AMB DST

Can’t help you there.  My back flush fitting is connected to a piece of flex hose BEHIND the wet bay panel.  I used my phone and a snake camera.  No way I could do that…. Some folks, I thought, had used one of the gutter cleaning power washer wands, HOPEFULLY ON REALLY LOW PRESSURE, to clean the inside,  I have talked to renowned chemists and without some highly noxious and maybe toxic witch’s brew, I don’t know how to clean them.  I come from a career of plating and cleaning and waste water treatment and the sludge or crap that builds up would or is a tough nut.  Abrasion, as in soaking and scraping might work,  but then you run the risk of “damaging” or abrading the tank’s slick skin surface…..so then when it comes back, it is like having a primer coat under paint.

As to your experience….about alternate draining and cycling and such,  AMEN.  Even after 4 cycles and keeping the back flush running with good line pressure, you can still get TP and feces solids out.  That is when I gave up on a pristine cleaning and just got it reasonably well dumped….so we experienced the same attributes…

Thank Monaco for the stupidity of a flat bottom tank,  my 06 Winnie gasser, I think, had a slightly sloped bottom running to the center dump.  

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I tilt the coach when dumping, just like some do for fueling up. Where we go, we usually don't have FHU and if there is no line at the dump station and the flushing water hose fitting is not flattened by some idiot driving over it, the sprayer inside passenger side of our tank does a good job and can make the bottom nice and clean pretty quick, looking down through the toilet. No idea what the sprayer looks like, never needed to know. Then I just estimate to leave few gallons in it to keep the bottom and the valve wet and less 'sticky', until next opportunity. And I don't consider the holding tanks to be the same as residential septic system that may need treatment when it gets cleaned years later.

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12 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

Thank Monaco for the stupidity of a flat bottom tank,  my 06 Winnie gasser, I think, had a slightly sloped bottom running to the center dump.  

I installed a See Level system some time ago and have had nothing but problems with the black tank sensor not reading correctly, in fact at this point I have 3 sensors on my black tank.  The problem is 2 of them will only read down to 75% and then work properly to 100%.  So on continuing to address this I installed the 3rd sensor on the opposite side of the tank away from the plumbing bay.  My tank is 3 inches shorter on that side and the bottom of my black and gray tank which sits on top of my water tank both have sloping bottoms.  Since the new location is right below the toilet I have, with some degree of success, put a pressure washer wand with a 90 sprayer on and cleaned the side of the tank.  It worked!  But it goes back to reading too high if I don't use the in tank sprayer every dump.  I am going to pressure wash it again soon and spend even more time with it.  I have accepted with the slanted bottom the sensor reads zero until I fill up the slant, approximately one third of the tank's volume.

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