Scissor door stop problems & Gas strut alternatives discussion

[Wheelsnkeels]

Replacement of the scissors with a gas strut was one of the best updates so far 

Monaco_door_gas_strut_upgrade.pdf

[saflyer]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:05 PM, SteveC said:

Looks like a little less than $200. Do you have a different supplier than the link you sent? They are showing $194.33.

Inflation rears its ugly head. Now it’s $213.80.

[wamcneil]

I have a new scissor arm that I’d sell for $100. There are several different ones. This  one is approximately 21” long and 1-1/4” wide.
Turned out to be the wrong size for my 03 dynasty.  My original is 21” length, but 1” wide.

Veurinks rv parts (findmyrvparts.com) has a video describing the variations.  
Cheers

Walter

[mandms59]

1 hour ago, wamcneil said:

I have a new scissor arm that I’d sell for $100. There are several different ones. This  one is approximately 21” long and 1-1/4” wide.
Turned out to be the wrong size for my 03 dynasty.  My original is 21” length, but 1” wide.

Veurinks rv parts (findmyrvparts.com) has a video describing the variations.  
Cheers

Walter

Walter,

 

I will take it.  I sent you a PM.

 

R/ Mark

[MJ.STIGER]

Came across this post. I too have a swing arm that is starting to give way. Just bought the parts to do the Gas Strut Modification. But a bit leery of adding this mod. Wanting to keep the coach nice an clean looking with out too many odd ball adds. 

I need someone to either convince me of either direction. 

[RNMCBR]

The link below explains how I fixed my entry door scissor arm. Obviously this repair requires use of a lathe and mill so it’s not practical for everyone. But it addresses one fundamental flaw in the original design - excessive wear at the riveted joints. Not only does it replace the rivets with components that have a larger bearing surface and resist wear, it is also adjustable for wear. I intended to build a new assembly with this design that would hold the door more open and incorporate a better detent design but this one has worked since 2014 without any problems. 
 

I’ve done some others too and they have held up as well. 

I hope this information is useful to someone else.

Roy

 

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/entry-door-swing-arm-fix-196439.html?referrerid=128853

[brokenarrow1244]

I really like the post by Jim Pratten, May 2022. The crimp tool has many advantages  beyond the door "fix".  If we have winds and I want the door open, I use a bungee for safety. Tighten the rivets really helps.  I agree with your feeling about alterations. With that in mind, there are a lot of items we need on the older coaches that are no longer available and force us to change some things. The door mod is not easily abandoned if you decide against keeping it.

You will make the right choice for sure.

[MJ.STIGER]

With this feed back i have decided to order a new hinge. Yes costly. But going to pull the old one out and fix it up for a spare. Then this coach and its future owner will be in good shape for years to come.

[Steve P]

18 hours ago, MJ.STIGER said:

With this feed back i have decided to order a new hinge. Yes costly. But going to pull the old one out and fix it up for a spare. Then this coach and its future owner will be in good shape for years to come.

I have a spare, purchased new from Veurinks, that I will never use.  I will sell it for a reasonable offer including shipping.  Send me a private message if interested.

[Tom Cherry]

As a reminder, go back to page 1 and look for a May 2022 post. Randall may NOT be still doing this, but his fix, or a new special rivet, is still tight as ever and that was a LONG….LONG time ago.

The ORIGINAL rivets were “soft” or not hardened….but using a crimper to tighten probably will work.  We had a member, many years ago, that replaced them with a hardened “Tinner’s” rivet and used a hydraulic press to “seat and crimp”.  Randall used an OEM automotive Rivet, hardened, and a special “Blacksmith” technique….

The harder rivet, properly installed, should last almost forever.  The MISTAKE that many, including techs, make… is to bend the joint up or down.  This is a short term fix, but actually weakens the soft joint and they will or did get worse..

[Ivylog]

At 13 years on our previous 04 Dynasty I used a sledgehammer as a backer and a heavy hammer to tighten up the center rivet off a ladder. At 20 years it’s still in the family and last year I hand to bend the little tit up some more so it didn’t get too straight making it very hard to close. About every 5 years I have to bend the portion that sticks out a little to make it harder to close. Why people replace it when a little bending or pounding on the pivot confuses me.

Pitcure is if the little tit that keeps the arms from getting too straight to close. By bending up  (with a pipe wrench) the end that sticks out, you can increase the force necessary to close… doesn’t take much.

Edited March 22 by Ivylog

[Dr4Film]

The scissor arm on our 06 Dynasty is just loose enough to allow me to lock the door open by sliding that little tit under the top arm so the arm is perfectly straight. The door will stay open unless it is very blustery outside and the wind catches the front of the door.

I am happy with the way my scissor arm operates. I must be one of the lucky ones.

[Ivylog]

1 minute ago, Dr4Film said:

The scissor arm on our 06 Dynasty is just loose enough to allow me to lock the door open by sliding that little tit under the top arm so the arm is perfectly straight. The door will stay open unless it is very blustery outside and the wind catches the front of the door.

I am happy with the way my scissor arm operates. I must be one of the lucky ones.

How do get the door to close if it’s straight? I don’t consider myself lucky, just shade tree enough to understand how it works and what it takes to adjust it as opposed to replacing or removing to tighten the center rivet or replace with a gas strut.

[Tom Cherry]

Without turning this into a complex physics and metallurgical engineering project.  My experience was that , when new, all was well.  As time went on, the door was “adjusted” every few years by a knowledgeable tech….and it got worse.  After 5 years, the Extended warranty replaced it.  We had a member that was really sharp and ran a business and had a lot or Monaco experience and worked on his, along with his shop personnel.  He ordered a 100 piece box of the harder rivets.  Many folks sent their “link” to him and he installed the harder rivet and comtrolled the compression or the “peening” with a hydraulic press and a special fixture that he made.

The results were phenomenal.  No one ever had another issue with their links.  YES….Monaco did bend or adjust the link when they installed it.  Yes, when folks got back the repaired link with the harder rivet, some had to bend ormfit or adjust.  YES….some doors were less troublesome than others.  YES, many enterprising members tightened, as in peened or reset the softer rivets….in place or on their “bench”.

My new arm or link got loose about 4 years after replacement and our member had quit fixing them and Randall was praised on IRV2 and I talked to him.  He was a Monaco owner and also the parts manager for a new car dealership and they had a replacable rivet, harder, that was almost a match for the OEM soft rivet.  He experimented and had a little cottage industry and was low key and honest.

As with most things mechanical and also assembly line tolerances….one size doth not fit all.

Many can reseat or tighten or peen and salvage theirs.  Many choose to abandon and go strut.  Many chose to have theirs repaired, with a harder and more precisely “peened and tightened” rivet…

The only constant, from taking to techs and also reading posts for 15 years….constantly bending up or down and actually loosening the soft rivet joint is what one should NOT DO…  I found that out the hard way and eventually folks posted that ….many times.

Whatever works for you and whatever approach you take….the OEM soft rivet eventually loosens….I would not recommend constantly adjusting and just bending….but if it works….it works.  The long range fix….tighten or be able to tighten the soft rivet and do that as needed.  Otherwise replace the soft rivet….and the harder one, once you adjust the center, will be good to go.  I’m working on 8 years of Randall’s fix and it is still as tight as when he shipped it back to me.

 

 

[Jetjockey]

The soft rivots are likely aluminum . Using aluminum as a  pivot point is probably not a good Choice

There are also steel and stainless steel rivots available.. I have used  them. The harder the rivot the more of the wear develops in the hole which in time can be more difficult to complete a repair. Have to descide which is acceptable to you  and your application.

 

Edited March 22 by Jetjockey
Addit

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, Jetjockey said:

The soft rivots are likely aluminum . Using aluminum as a  pivot point is probably not a good Choice

There are also steel and stainless steel rivots available.. I have used  them. The harder the rivot the more of the wear develops in the hole which in time can be more difficult to complete a repair. Have to descide which is acceptable to you  and your application.

 

memory says the OEM's are steel.  However, they are something like a 1019 or low carbon steel that are used for most Grade 2 or unhardened fasteners. The Tinner's rivets are a higher carbon steel and then hardened and tempered...and when you peen or seat and crimp them, they stay.  The original low carbon steel rivets just "wear" as in the peened area erodes and the shank and countersunk head also wears.

Yes, SS might work, but it is much harder and might not have the same properities as  the Tinner;'s rivent which was meant to been peened over like "Rosy the Riveter" used to use.

 

 

[Dr4Film]

3 hours ago, Ivylog said:

How do get the door to close if it’s straight? I don’t consider myself lucky, just shade tree enough to understand how it works and what it takes to adjust it as opposed to replacing or removing to tighten the center rivet or replace with a gas strut.

I simply give the middle of the arm a punch with my hand then grab the door handle to close.

[eddie4ne]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:32 AM, SteveC said:

If you are a member of the Monaco RV Owners Facebook Group there is a pdf document in the files section that gives detailed instructions on replacing the scissor with a gas strut. The file is called Monaco_door_gas_strut_upgrade.pdf. I made the upgrade on my 2000 Signature and it greatly improved the door operation on my rig. If you do the upgrade, measure and plan carefully. Every rig is slightly different with regards to the measurements given.

Please help! I am unable to find the file. What am I doing wrong?

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, eddie4ne said:

Please help! I am unable to find the file. What am I doing wrong?

Go to the search.  This is a PDF and it is a FILE.  You can use only one or two words as the “files” are much fewer.

In the search box, put in strut. You COULD use door & strut….but strut will really narrow it down.  Then click on EVERYWHERE.  Choose FILES.  Go.  Bingo,,,.you got it,

NOW…for searches of content….same deal.  But sometimes you have to narrow it down.  Same deal…if you wanted to see the posts about the subject…..use scissors & door.  Then go to everywhere and choose TOPICS.  Bingo….every topic with those two words in a post,

Lots of time I use one word…OPPS….way too many hits.  Then I choose a second word and try both.

Sometimes a word that you might use is now what folks used….so you just play around.

Good Luck

[Frank McElroy]

44 minutes ago, eddie4ne said:

Please help! I am unable to find the file. What am I doing wrong?

You need to do your search on the "1st Monaco RV Owners Group" Facebook site. (Not the "Monaco RV Owners" Facebook site.)

[Frank McElroy]

1 hour ago, Frank McElroy said:

You need to do your search on the "1st Monaco RV Owners Group" Facebook site. (Not the "Monaco RV Owners" Facebook site.)

I think a bit more background history on the Facebook Monaco Group name change is in order.

The original Facebook  "Monaco RV Owners Group", formed on 8/31/2017, changed its name to "1st Monaco RV Owners Group" about 2 days ago.  This is a private moderated group that screens members and reviews content much like we do.

Back on 7/14/23, a couple of members banned from the original FB group, decided to form a new public unmoderated Facebook group called "Monaco RV Owners" and so far Facebook has allowed the virtually identical name to stay.  For that reason, the original group decided to add "1st" to their original name.

[Jeff H]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:08 AM, Wheelsnkeels said:

This is the best solution after replacing the scissor stop multiple times. We installed the gas strut a couple years ago not only is it a dramatic improvement over the original. It also eliminated a significant amount of road noise emanating from the door area. 
 

the scissor assembly was bouncing in the area above the door making quite a racket. 

I agree.  I changed mine out to the gas strut and the door works much better, even sounds more solid when it closes.

[eddie4ne]

2 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

You need to do your search on the "1st Monaco RV Owners Group" Facebook site. (Not the "Monaco RV Owners" Facebook site.)

Didn’t know there was such a thing…thanks for the info. Will definitely join!

I have problems finding referenced downloads in the past…and felt really stupid! I stumbled upon the downlodand have saved it

sharon

[Mike T Phillips]

NOTE.

This new topic was merged with one that is current.

END of EDIT

I know I have seen the articles about replacing the door scissors replaced with a gas or pneumatic shock closer. I have had my door scissors repaired twice and they say it is no longer possible so now I need to put one of the gas shocks on and I can’t seem to locate the article that tails exactly how to do that or which one to order if somebody could direct me in that direction or length the article, I would greatly appreciate it, Mike Phillips 43 foot holiday rambler imperial 2008 

[klcdenver]

Not the easiest to find. I have done 2 of these. Not hard to do. Good luck, you will like it.

 

Monaco_door_gas_strut_upgrade.pdf