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MERGED - Same MH. Ran out diesel & No electricity


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Tom, I see you are in or around Orlando?

If you are nearby I would gladly give you a hand. I'm fairly decent at sorting things out.

You have been given spot on advice but I know the frustrations chasing problems. I suspect you have two issues. The salesmans switch circuit may or may not be reliable on your unit and the "big boy" solenoid that combines batteries could be in desperate need of repair.

Your yr coach may not have a system to charge the engine batteries concurrently with your house batteries. This is common. I won't get into the BIRD/IRD conversation now. I surely don't want to muddy the waters. 

There are lots of options for adding devices to charge the engine batteries. Some incredibly simple and some a bit elegant. 

 

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Guest Ray Davis

Tom, if at all possible I would take Myron up on his offer.    Myron is being modest saying he is fairly decent at sorting things out,  he is much better than decent.

I hope he will allow me to tell that he owned a business for yrs servicing all things electrical on emergency vehicles.

This may be your lucky day.

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1 hour ago, myrontruex said:

Tom, I see you are in or around Orlando?

If you are nearby I would gladly give you a hand. I'm fairly decent at sorting things out.

You have been given spot on advice but I know the frustrations chasing problems. I suspect you have two issues. The salesmans switch circuit may or may not be reliable on your unit and the "big boy" solenoid that combines batteries could be in desperate need of repair.

Your yr coach may not have a system to charge the engine batteries concurrently with your house batteries. This is common. I won't get into the BIRD/IRD conversation now. I surely don't want to muddy the waters. 

There are lots of options for adding devices to charge the engine batteries. Some incredibly simple and some a bit elegant. 

 

You are probably right about the salesman switch. We have a short trip to Ft. Desoto Park leaving tomorrow (hopefully) and will be back on Sunday. After we get back I would like to drive it down to Davenport and get you to help me by-pass that D@mn€d salesman switch. 

Maybe you can also help me get oriented to the Monaco way. 
 

Thanks again for your generous offer. I look forward to meeting you and your wife. We’ll take you guys out to dinner when we meet. 

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4 hours ago, tomevansfl said:

You are probably right about the salesman switch. We have a short trip to Ft. Desoto Park leaving tomorrow (hopefully) and will be back on Sunday. After we get back I would like to drive it down to Davenport and get you to help me by-pass that D@mn€d salesman switch. 

Maybe you can also help me get oriented to the Monaco way. 
 

Thanks again for your generous offer. I look forward to meeting you and your wife. We’ll take you guys out to dinner when we meet. 

Comment.  If would be NICE to know HOW the house and chassis charging systems are laid out.  Earlier coaches like yours had a weird array.  Lookup @Larry Laursen.  He be the MAN that knows and can describe them.  IF you have power at storage, then a nice desulfurization charger maintainer with 2 amps output hooked up to your chassis battery would solve the issue.  But if you have 120 VAC, the really best way is the Blue Seas ML-ARC.  That way BOTH banks charge and you won’t have this issue again.  Don’t forget the jumper cables.  My bet is after you do the Genny Charging and/or drive it. You will be back in business 

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6 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

Tom, if at all possible I would take Myron up on his offer.    Myron is being modest saying he is fairly decent at sorting things out,  he is much better than decent.

I hope he will allow me to tell that he owned a business for yrs servicing all things electrical on emergency vehicles.

This may be your lucky day.

Tattletale, and let it be known I like a good challenge. Just waking up is not enough. I can often walk folks through things over the phone while playing "20 questions". Asking lots of questions and and sometimes appearing to repeat those questions is intentional. Sometimes a tiny clue that someone left out sets me in the right direction. These little clues meant nothing to the customer but can make a huge difference in diagnosis. When a difficult or intermittent problem arose with some vehicle it was very helpful having the user/customer right there in the bay or lab while we chased the darn problems down. Often finding more than one, actually, it was rare when there was only one problem. The customers were allowed to stand right next to us while we unfolded long schematics and often queried our other techs if they had seen anything similar. It was not unusual to have a customer push buttons or hold a probe because a technician just does not have enough arms or length to do some things. I believe this inspired confidence in our service center showing the customers just how focused we were chasing their elusive problems. 

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On 7/4/2022 at 2:35 PM, tomevansfl said:

We store our RV in a storage facility. Recently had service at Lazy Days in Wildwood, FL. 

When I picked up the RV from Lazy Days I started the generator to run the roof A/C on the way back to the storage facility. The generator started and ran but there didn’t seem to be any electricity going to the A/C thermostat (nothing showed in the LCD panel). I was in a bit of a hurry so I drove back using only dash air & dash mounted fans. I thought maybe I just didn’t give it long enough for electricity to get through the system to power the A/C.

I went to the storage lot to prep for an upcoming trip at the end of this week and needed to pull forward to access the bay doors. I turned both battery cutoffs back to on position. The inverter panel shows 96.5% charge on the house batteries. None of the lights come on but the microwave clock and the refrigerator are running. The power step came out when I opened the entry door. The generator started when I tried it. 

The chassis battery show 10 volts. I tried using the auxiliary start, but the engine wouldn’t turn over…starter clicking only. There still seems no power to the A/C panel and the fantastic vents won’t run. The lights aren’t coming on either. 
 

I checked the fuse on the generator and it was in the on position. I also checked all of the fuses and breakers in the bedroom and all were in on position. I can’t get to the power switch in the electrical bay to check it because there isn’t room to open the door because of the trailer in the next space.

What am I missing? Any suggestions?

Comment for all.  The fact that his refrigerator, presumably a gas one, not a residential, was running but he had no lights has been churning around in my brain.  I was reading a manual today helping someone offline and came across something that I KNEW, but got filed away.  The Refrigerator and the Inverter are BOTH WIRED upstream of the Salesman switch.  When the Salesman switch is off it kills all the internal power, including the 12 VDC house fuse panel.  That includes the power to the Thermostat(s).  Typically, or at least on mine, the Thermostat circuit also powers the cable / Broadcast Antenna selector switch as the antenna has a built in signal amplifier….plus in some cases others items like the door awning.

Just one additional factoid to remember when trouble shooting

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8 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Comment for all.  The fact that his refrigerator, presumably a gas one, not a residential, was running but he had no lights has been churning around in my brain.  I was reading a manual today helping someone offline and came across something that I KNEW, but got filed away.  The Refrigerator and the Inverter are BOTH WIRED upstream of the Salesman switch.  When the Salesman switch is off it kills all the internal power, including the 12 VDC house fuse panel.  That includes the power to the Thermostat(s).  Typically, or at least on mine, the Thermostat circuit also powers the cable / Broadcast Antenna selector switch as the antenna has a built in signal amplifier….plus in some cases others items like the door awning.

Just one additional factoid to remember when trouble shooting

Actually, Tom, our refrigerator is a residential refrigerator. I knew it was running because the light in side was the only light that would come on. The only LP appliances we have are the stove, furnace, and water heater. As it turned out the salesman switch had been turned off at Lazydays. 

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14 minutes ago, tomevansfl said:

Actually, Tom, our refrigerator is a residential refrigerator. I knew it was running because the light in side was the only light that would come on. The only LP appliances we have are the stove, furnace, and water heater. As it turned out the salesman switch had been turned off at Lazydays. 

Glad you cleared that up.  Of course running the Genny gave your inverter DC charging….BUT, the inverter has a built in Automatic Transfer Switch and just passes power through it.  Makes sense.

DO YOU HAVE 120VAC at your storage location?

The advise from you “electrician”, who graciously volunteered to help is good.  You do not, I’ll wager, have Chassis Charging capability.  OR, if you have one of the “Lambert” designed “battery thief”, then it is not working

BTW….how did you finally get the engine running….assuming you did…?

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2 hours ago, tomevansfl said:

Didn’t get the engine running. Let the generator run for about 8 hours. Was never able to get aux start enough power to start. I believe the batteries are toast. 

Finding the Big boy you can jumper across it or just put all wires on one side of the large terminals. I say this but there are lots of cautions to be aware of.

Using one single vehicle jumper cable across the 12 volt battery posts of each bank is easy as well and in some cases can be easiest. You do not want to simply run back and try to start the engine with this kind of setup. The massive current demand can cause arcing and sparks which is extremely dangerous in a battery compartment. 

Most cheap jump start cables cannot handle the current in any case and really is just a simple way to get the charging current from the house bank/converter. If you can put both of the cables on the positive you can charge even faster.

I would give your generator/shoreline at least an hour to bring those up. Even then an hour is not great but may get you started. 

Finding your Big Boy solenoid you can activate it manually or use the aux start button to activate it. Put a gold tee or anything under it to prop it on.

You need to measure the voltage on both banks to be sure the power is actually getting to the dead bank.

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First, understand these things are snow flakes and there are many variations and setups. The Big Boy in question on your RV could be in the battery compartment or in the rear area engine compartment if you have a side radiator. I will post and edit a response written some time ago. Hopefully, I can edit it to suit your RV a little closer.

Second, let’s clear up the "Big Boy" question. It is like calling all tissues Kleenex.

To be specific there are several variations of the "Big Boy" solenoid. The solenoid is a very simple electric switch controlled by a 12-volt source. See, even the Big Boy is not always called that. As an electronic tech, I will refer to it as the relay. How's that for confusion.

So, Big Boy, Solenoid, Relay, and often because of the mfgr of these they are called Trombetta relays.

How these relays are activated can be complex or as simple as sending 12 volts and ground to them.

You will notice on your relay in the battery compartment, (or wherever it is located), that there are two wires. One is likely purple. (may vary of course), In any case one is ground and the other is switched 12 volts. The purple wire is the switched voltage in most cases.

Again, 12 volts is sent to the purple wire and the big relay goes clunk and makes contact between the large wires thus combining the batteries. Your "Big Boy" will have enormous cables attached on each large post. It will have two smaller terminals that cause a magnetic action inside the device which simply slams a piece of copper across the large posts inside.

That relay under normal working conditions will get very warm or even hot to the touch if it runs for several hours. For example, if things are working properly and you are using shoreline it will be working 24/7 and get hot to the touch. This is normal.

So, the heart of the system is that relay somewhere near the batteries in the back being controlled by 12 volts. How and where that 12-volt control comes from can be the tricky part to understand...

We will get to the BIRD part shortly.

First, if the engine is running and after a few minutes of warming up and the grid heater (later model engines), stops loading down the battery, voltage on the chassis batteries should rise enough to engage the BIRD device and send the 12 volts to the relay. This is the “Delay” part of the bird. It would not make sense to combine the batteries without the alternator having brought up chassis batteries a bit or for extreme loads such as the grid heater to be gone. .

So, let’s take the situation where your chassis batteries have been run down for some reason. You left the radio on for two days etc.

Pressing and holding the Aux start button bypasses the fancy “BIRD” circuitry and sends 12 volts directly to the relay/trombetta/Big Boy, in the battery compartment or wherever it is located.  This combines the battery banks just as a set of jumper cables would.

     Now that we understand how the relay functions let’s begin managing when it is turned on. We already discussed how the “Aux” start button controls it. That is a manual function and can easily be tested by listening to the relay as someone presses the button. If no clunk is heard, then the relay is most likely already activated. To test this without a meter, simply remove the purple wire (or any small terminal wires) . Wear some gloves because there will be a tiny static like discharge that can surprise you. If you have a meter you can measure the voltage on the little terminals. You can also carefully feel the relay to see if it is warm or hot IF it has been engaged for some time.

Here is how the Bi-Directional Relay Delay functions to control that purple wire.(or whatever color they are, electrons are color blind)

Keep in mind the “DELAY” part as you are troubleshooting. It can take a couple of minutes for it to activate. No sense in combining batteries if the first bank being charged is not up enough.

Parked with nothing running and no shoreline the bird is asleep. No combining. However, if you have solar that is indeed a charging source and may be enough to activate the bird.

Now you plug into shoreline. The little circuit board in the front run panel (or wherever yours may be), wakes up and sees that your converter is doing a fine job of charging the house batteries. The converter is connected directly to them via cutoff switches and fuses or circuit breakers.  The BIRD now sends voltage to the relay and engages it, thus combining the batteries.

Time to leave, shoreline is disconnected so the BIRD drops out the control voltage. You fire up the big engine and in a couple of minutes the BIRD sees a nice alternator doing its thing. Time to send voltage to the relay again.  

We have just discussed the BI-directional part of the BIRD. This demonstrates how it can work from one set of battery banks to the other depending on which one is getting the charge.

Arriving at your favorite boondocking place you decide to fire up the generator to run some heavy loads. This generator is the same thing as having shoreline power, so it works as described before.

So, you spend the weekend without the generator running anymore and enjoy the quiet along with some tv and perhaps running the microwave on the inverter. The inverter of course, not the converter. They can be combined in one box and I can address that more if needed. Inverters are real battery hogs so now you have a very large set of batteries.

You are packed, and the big engine is started, thus providing a big enough voltage to activate the BIRD. You are now charging 6 batteries or more and the alternator is straining. This is rough on the alternator, so you follow the manufacturer and my advice and fire up the generator so the “converter” comes alive and supplies voltage to the drained house batteries.

At this stage, your rv has two sources of charging voltage. The converter via the generator, and the alternator. This poses a bit of an issue with the alternator and can cause it to show a fault.  However, the BIRD is rather smart and knows the engine is running along with the generator. With these two competing charging sources, it simply turns the Relay off and allows each battery bank to be charged separately.

Now that you understand how it works, here is a scenario that could get you home if your alternator dies. Just start the generator and prop the AUX button up so it forces the banks to combine. Since your alternator is offline there will not be any conflicts. This will easily get you any distance you wish to travel. The bird might see the charging voltage from the generator/converter and pull the relay in on its own but holding the switch will assure it gets charged.

Of course, you could put a small jumper from 12 volts to the purple wire(et), on the relay and do the same without pushing the button.

Now you understand how, when, and why the relay is activated. What you don’t know is if it is actually working. The relay is a very simple device inside. It is a magnet that pulls a contact across the two large wires connected to it. Very often these contacts burn and fail to make contact. This can be intermittent and drive a technician crazy.

If the relay is activated there is either a charging source or the AUX button is being held down. When it is activated it is like placing a nail across the two large terminals. So you should see the same voltage on each of the large terminals and at the batteries. If you do not see the same voltage across the large terminals, then the relay is bad.

This can be a bit tricky if both banks of batteries have been fully charged and the relay is making contact but a poor one. You will see the same voltage on each large terminal and think the relay is ok. You need to run one bank down a bit so there will be lots of current trying to charge for an accurate assessment.

If you are having one bank of batteries low after having a charging source for several hours and you find voltage on the purple wire (etc.), then the relay is bad.,

These relays are a known source of problems and I had a heck of a time understanding how the system works. I am a senior certified electronic tech and extremely qualified to work on such a simple system as long as I know how it is supposed to function. I did not have that information in 2008.

Replacing the relay is easy and cheap as things go on these things. Be sure to turn both battery banks off and I would highly recommend removing the negative leads of each bank for additional safety. You can weld with these battery cables so do be careful.

Once you replace the relay, do yourself and us a favor by taking the old one apart and inspecting the inside.

The actual BIRD control board is a common failure item too but has become difficult to source. I found one on e-bay.

Don’t despair if that is the problem because there are plenty of other solutions available.

There is another relay that has nothing to do with the charging system but gives plenty of problems. It is the “Salesman” switch/relay. It is the relay controlled by the switch by the door or nearby. The relay is in the box up front near the BIRD board. (snow flakes)The BIRD board is a small board. The relay is on the bottom left.

This thing controls lots of functions and can go bad anytime. Simply bypassing it with a jumper is an easy and permanent fix if it fails.

I will follow up with links to lots of information.

Now to be a bit more specific on your rv. It is unlikely you have a "BIRD". The previous response was for some folks with similar units.

Your rv likely has or had an IRD. Isolator Relay Delay. It is NOT bi-directional. That is, your converter being powered by shoreline or generator may only charge your house batteries, thus leaving your engine batteries to fend for themselves. The parasitic draws on these things can be difficult to track down and it is best to turn the engine batteries off when parked for three days or more. 

Or to update the system with some very efficient devices and keep those expensive batteries happy. 

My sincere apologies for not being able to give credit to the author of the following document. It is likely one of the folks on this forum because I know of one tech writer that could have done it for sure. If I find out that will be added to the file of course. 

https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aqrv2TUdbV6x50MBZYy0cBkV2xFH?e=ZK4WRn Here is a Big Boy being rebuilt. 

Happy Trails,

Myron

08 Endeavor

 

Edited by myrontruex
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18 hours ago, tomevansfl said:

Didn’t get the engine running. Let the generator run for about 8 hours. Was never able to get aux start enough power to start. I believe the batteries are toast. 

Tom,

Did you use the Auto Jumper cable between the Chassis and the House Battery Bank. You do NOT have, we believe, the ability to charge your Chassis Batteries from the Genny. That is ONLY done on yours by driving and letting the Alternator do it.  Unless you do that or use Jumper Cables and kick off the Engine from a car running, you are NOT going to get the Chassis charged. I personally do NOT believe that your Chassis batteries are "TOAST". I think they are just run down.

Use the Jumper and get the engine started from the House Bank....with the Genny Running.

Then you can start to analyze.

For a simple Explanation, the "Big Boy" is a generic term for the Battery Boost Solenoid. ReRead my earlier post.  That explains it. You CANNOT crank the Engine from the BOOST.  It was NEVER DESIGNED THAT WAY. You run the risk of killing it.

EDIT....I reviewed Myron's post. It is great. THERE IS ONE KEY SENTENCE...

Using a Automotive Jumper Cable between the House and the Chassis is just like PUSHING the Battery Boost button, but you have GREATER power. In addition, leaving the cable in place and running the Genny charges BOTH.

This is the SIMPLIEST Solution to get your engine running, short of using LONG Heavy Duty Jumper cables from a running car. It is HARD to say HOW LONG to run the Genny. After half an hour or SO....look at the Xantrex. Note the Reading.  Then TRY to start the Engine. If it fails.....then your Chassis might be really bad....but another half hour or so will tell the tale. I have seen some cars that the battery was so dead, that you have to leave the cables hooked up for a long time.....and then it started....

Let us know....

Stick to the basics....Jumper cable the two banks.....and then drive or let them both run. Your Chassis batteries WILL be charged. IF you can NOT start it after you shut down....after say 2 hours of running, THEN your Chassis batteries are bad....

If it starts and runs and will start again.....then reread my post about letting it sit and heat soak the engine. That is a simple no cost test. You also have your Jumper cables to restart it. I would ONLY replace the Chassis AFTER I tested the batt and follow the advice there.  

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Tom,

On your 2001 Diplomat the chassis batteries are NOT charged when on shore power or generator, unless the previous owner installed an after-market device.  You need to press and hold the Battery Boost switch down for a long time.  You can put something under it and let it charge the chassis batteries for an hour or more.  The salesman, battery safety switch, turns off the 12 volt DC to the house on the coach.  This also turns off the controls on the A/C units and they will not run, as you experienced.

You can purchase and install an Amp-L-Start on the unit and charge the chassis batteries when on shore or generator. Information on the device is here: AMP-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer - Overview Page (lslproducts.net)  I have no connection to them.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I was not able to start the engine after having jumper cables connecting the house batteries to the chassis battery and running the generator for more than 6 hours. I had to cancel the weekend trip I had planned for the following weekend. Life gets in the way sometimes but I am now ready to get the issue resolved.
 

I called Coach Net and they are sending a heavy duty jump start with the option to tow if it can’t be jumped. I realize they go for the simplest thing first. However, could it be the starter?  Not mechanical here but where is it located. I want to try tapping it to see if that will correct (a solution I heard my dad talk about when I was a kid. 

My coach has a rear radiator. Where would I find the start button in the back?…the one techs use so they don’t have to keep going into the cockpit to start the engine. 

I’m willing to try most anything at this point. 

Edited by tomevansfl
Wrong response to wrong question.
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Guest Ray Davis
1 hour ago, tomevansfl said:

I was not able to start the engine after having jumper cables connecting the house batteries to the chassis battery and running the generator for more than 6 hours. I had to cancel the weekend trip I had planned for the following weekend. Life gets in the way sometimes but I am now ready to get the issue resolved.
 

I called Coach Net and they are sending a heavy duty jump start with the option to tow if it can’t be jumped. I realize they go for the simplest thing first. However, could it be the starter?  Not mechanical here but where is it located. I want to try tapping it to see if that will correct (a solution I heard my dad talk about when I was a kid. 

My coach has a rear radiator. Where would I find the start button in the back?…the one techs use so they don’t have to keep going into the cockpit to start the engine. 

I’m willing to try most anything at this point. 

Good morning Tom.   I can feel your pain & frustration.  I have a couple of quetions.

Do you know for sure the jumper cables were making good contact, and charging the chassis batteries?         Did you see a spark when hooking them up?   If the chassis batteries were way down I think you would see a spark indicating you made contact.  What voltage do they measure now?

Here is a little test, turn on the headlights and see if they dim when trying to start.   If they don't dim it implies power is not getting to the starter, dimming implies power is getting there and the starter is trying.

You could have poor / corroded battery or ground connections.

Good luck, let us know how the Coach Net jump start goes.

 

Edited by Ray Davis
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Having owned a 2000 and now a 2005 Endeavor, sister to the Diplomat, I am not aware of any rear starter button.  I did all my service work for 10 years on both coaches.  The relays that trigger the starter solenoid are located in the rear passenger side compartment above the inverter.  They are behind a black plastic cover and mounted on an aluminum plate.  There are 3 relays on the plate, 2 are for the air heater in the intake and one for the starter solenoid.  You will need to use a 12volt circuit tester or VOM to determine which is which.  The starting circuit has several relays in the front run compartment below the driver's window also.  These are trigger by the Allison Transmission controller to check that the transmission is in neutral.   The most common failure is the ignition switch, which is a GM truck switch.  

To check the relays in the back, have someone turn on the ignition while someone has a 12 volt circuit tester at the rear.  The air heaters will come on when the dash indicator lights up.  This will determine what relays supply the heaters.  Next have a person turn the ignition switch to start and see if you get power to the other relay.  If you have power to the relay check power on the large terminals to see if you have power of them.  If you have power on the large terminals, then the starter solenoid is probably the problem.  If you don't have any power at the relays coil terminals, then the problem is up front, either the ignition switch or relays in the FRB.   I have been through this with a friends coach.  We installed a "rear start" button in the rear passenger compartment to trigger the relay because he had inconsistent starting.  He finally got it fixed at a truck repair in Michigan after several years.

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Do you hear any clicking when you turn the ignition switch to the start position?

Have someone cycle the switch while you listen in the area Larry is speaking about. 

Turn your headlights on and have someone turn the ignition switch on as if starting the engine. Are they still bright or do they dim or even go out?

It sounds like Larry is very familiar with your setup. I have an 08 Endeavor (Diplomat sister), so the wiring may be a bit different.

There may be a simple fuse blown. My fuses are in a couple of places. Under the driver in the outside bay and in the rear compartment on the right side.

 

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On 8/29/2022 at 9:17 AM, tomevansfl said:

I was not able to start the engine after having jumper cables connecting the house batteries to the chassis battery and running the generator for more than 6 hours. I had to cancel the weekend trip I had planned for the following weekend. Life gets in the way sometimes but I am now ready to get the issue resolved.
 

I called Coach Net and they are sending a heavy duty jump start with the option to tow if it can’t be jumped. I realize they go for the simplest thing first. However, could it be the starter?  Not mechanical here but where is it located. I want to try tapping it to see if that will correct (a solution I heard my dad talk about when I was a kid. 

My coach has a rear radiator. Where would I find the start button in the back?…the one techs use so they don’t have to keep going into the cockpit to start the engine. 

I’m willing to try most anything at this point. 

Catching up.  Waiting for your response.  To make a comment.

Many have discussed…..so a recap.

The big boy solenoid is a 200 A device or “electric powered” switch.  You may have a Trumbull (memory? or another brand.  The Intellitec brand is most widely used. The term Big Boy is like Kleenex for a tissue.  There are TWO solenoids in your “battery or electronics” area.  One is the salesman’s switch which is typically 80 Amp. It is a “latching” style.  You push the switch at the top.  It springs back to center off.  That momentary contact turned ON the switch.  There is NO power or current going to the coil to drain the battery.  Push the bottom…OFF…again it toggles a contact bar…so it stays in that position,

The solenoid provides power to the House Fuse panel.  That panel is inside….see manual for location.  One of the fuses (Satellite?) provides 12 VDC power to each AC unit.  So each AC unit has 120 VAC (an individual circuit breaker in the large or big AC panel for each).  It also must have 12 VDC power to run the control board on each one.  That is what lights up the Thermostat.  When the Salesman switch was OFF.  No internal 12 VDC power.  No lights or other needed items, including the thermostat.  If you really want to find out which fuse is the AC, then pull one out.  If the thermostat goes dark….bingo.  Keep pulling….one at a time…until you isolate it.  Only ONE fuse provides power for both AC’.

Next up.  Big Boy.  The 200 Amp solenoid is what “connects” the House and Chassis batteries.  Read and REread the Manual. Your cranking amp are well above 1000 Amps.  If you tried to use it to “crank” the engine, odds are, you burn up or arc or put the contacts.  NOW, if the House batteries (assuming they crank the Generator) are down enough to not crank, but still have some low amperage DC, then you can hold ON the Battery Boost switch.  BUT, if they are totally DEAD, then there is no voltage to the Battery Boost switch.  

The Intellitec Big Boy is made to only have a full 12 VDC ON for less than 30 seconds or so.  Longer than that heats up the coil and damages it.  

IN some newer MH, the Big Boy will receive a lower voltage…say 4 VDC.  That will “hold” it on and not burn up the coil.  Then either the alternator when driving or the House when AC (shore or Genny) is on….will charge BOTH SETS.

My “Jumper Cable” trick was temporary to let the AC power charge the House bank….as well as the Chassis bank.  

Typically, the Chassis bank starts to decline or not hold a charge, gradually.  Then  the Jumper cable will provide a little boost from the House and you can start the engine.  You “sudden” no start is an indicator of some electrical failure in the starting system….which has a LOT of components.  There is a relay that checks to see if the transmission is in NEUTRAL….and maybe others.  The starter has a relay or solenoid, in some cases….plus the starter’s windings have to be OK.

Hard to say “what is wrong”.  Your initial issue with NO POWER inside was not related, I think, to the starting issue.  Typically most folks install a short jumper cable and bypass the salesman’s solenoid as folks will bump it OFF (my wife) or it fails…

Let us know what they find out.

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2 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

Maybe not,  looks like he abondoned this thread and jumped on this one.

Coach Won't Start & Trip in 2 Days!! - General Discussion - Bill D’s Monacoers

 

 

Thanks.  That comment has been edited with a warning as well as a communication to the poster.  Such jumping violates what we call the “common sense and courtesy” fundamentals of the site.

Too many members have invested a lot of time and helpful information for the poster to let such behavior go on without a formal comment.

 

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Guest Ray Davis
2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Thanks.  That comment has been edited with a warning as well as a communication to the poster.  Such jumping violates what we call the “common sense and courtesy” fundamentals of the site.

Too many members have invested a lot of time and helpful information for the poster to let such behavior go on without a formal comment.

 

Wow, I didn't mean to start anything.  I'm sure he didn't realize we were waiting over on the other thread for feed back.   

 

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On 8/30/2022 at 5:30 PM, Ray Davis said:

Wow, I didn't mean to start anything.  I'm sure he didn't realize we were waiting over on the other thread for feed back.   

 

Ray, thank you for understanding. 
 

To update:

This post is to report there is nothing to report. But I’ll try. 

I again called Coach Care.  At first they wouldn’t service it because it was not on a freightliner chassis. When I assured them I only wanted service on the engine not the chassis or house (they had already refused to repair my black tank drain for that reason).

Speaking of my black tank. I had to take my RV to Lazydays in Wildwood, FL some 60 miles away to get the black tank repaired. I feel they overcharged for what they did.

I tried virtually all RV dealers in Orange County and got the same response: none of them will service a Monaco since Monaco no longer exist  They would only work on a Monaco if they sold it to me. I bought from a small dealership near Tampa.

I had my RV at LazyDays for several weeks waiting for their diesel technician to get to it. LazyDays reported they drove the RV and it didn’t skip so they couldn’t fix anything. 

My Diplomat cranked with no problems at LazyDays but it skipped all the way home once the engine warmed up.

I tried the recommendations for the electrical issues from the group without success. I had my RV towed to Cummins of Orlando/Coach Care on Monday based on recommendations from this group. It is there to fix the non-cranking and the engine skipping.

I store my RV at a storage facility about 2 miles from my house and don’t have the opportunity to tear into it there and my tree-lined street has limbs that are too low for me to get it to my house. Even if I could, my HOA wouldn’t allow it and would probably fine me for having it at my home for more than the 24 hours per the by-laws.  So I’m very limited to what I can do to the chassis and it’s components. 

After Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care agreed to perform service on the engine they then refused to service it without the engine serial number.

I had my RV towed despite not being able to provide the engine serial number. I explained I couldn’t get to the engine because I have a rear radiator and couldn’t get to the engine without removing the radiator. I tried to find the engine number by looking through the “slot” in the bedroom floor but couldn’t find it from the vantage point I had.
 

The irony of this whole ordeal is that Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care refused twice to work on my RV because it was on a Freightliner chassis there was a Holiday Rambler in the lot awaiting service.  Same vintage and Roadmaster chassis. So much for not working on anything other than Freightliner. To be fair, I don’t know what was to be serviced but I did notice the Holiday Rambler also had a rear radiator.  I’d like to know how they got its engine serial number. (By the way, I contacted REV via REV’s website to see if they could look it up from my VIN number. Their automated response system acknowledged my inquiry and I would be contacted by a real person, but I am yet to get a real response. 
So there is really no progress to report.

I hope this has satisfied everyone’s concerns.  I am greatful for all of the advise I’ve been given and I am sorry if my silence during this frustrating experience has offended anyone .

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5 hours ago, tomevansfl said:

Ray, thank you for understanding. 
 

To update:

This post is to report there is nothing to report. But I’ll try. 

I again called Coach Care.  At first they wouldn’t service it because it was not on a freightliner chassis. When I assured them I only wanted service on the engine not the chassis or house (they had already refused to repair my black tank drain for that reason).

Speaking of my black tank. I had to take my RV to Lazydays in Wildwood, FL some 60 miles away to get the black tank repaired. I feel they overcharged for what they did.

I tried virtually all RV dealers in Orange County and got the same response: none of them will service a Monaco since Monaco no longer exist  They would only work on a Monaco if they sold it to me. I bought from a small dealership near Tampa.

I had my RV at LazyDays for several weeks waiting for their diesel technician to get to it. LazyDays reported they drove the RV and it didn’t skip so they couldn’t fix anything. 

My Diplomat cranked with no problems at LazyDays but it skipped all the way home once the engine warmed up.

I tried the recommendations for the electrical issues from the group without success. I had my RV towed to Cummins of Orlando/Coach Care on Monday based on recommendations from this group. It is there to fix the non-cranking and the engine skipping.

I store my RV at a storage facility about 2 miles from my house and don’t have the opportunity to tear into it there and my tree-lined street has limbs that are too low for me to get it to my house. Even if I could, my HOA wouldn’t allow it and would probably fine me for having it at my home for more than the 24 hours per the by-laws.  So I’m very limited to what I can do to the chassis and it’s components. 

After Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care agreed to perform service on the engine they then refused to service it without the engine serial number.

I had my RV towed despite not being able to provide the engine serial number. I explained I couldn’t get to the engine because I have a rear radiator and couldn’t get to the engine without removing the radiator. I tried to find the engine number by looking through the “slot” in the bedroom floor but couldn’t find it from the vantage point I had.
 

The irony of this whole ordeal is that Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care refused twice to work on my RV because it was on a Freightliner chassis there was a Holiday Rambler in the lot awaiting service.  Same vintage and Roadmaster chassis. So much for not working on anything other than Freightliner. To be fair, I don’t know what was to be serviced but I did notice the Holiday Rambler also had a rear radiator.  I’d like to know how they got its engine serial number. (By the way, I contacted REV via REV’s website to see if they could look it up from my VIN number. Their automated response system acknowledged my inquiry and I would be contacted by a real person, but I am yet to get a real response. 
So there is really no progress to report.

I hope this has satisfied everyone’s concerns.  I am greatful for all of the advise I’ve been given and I am sorry if my silence during this frustrating experience has offended anyone .

EDITED.....More INFO on the InSight system

Tom,

Thanks for the update.  Unfortunately LD does not, now, have the quality reputation they once had.  Bummer on your trials and tribulations.   Couple of points I know personally and some info for you.

The Cummins dealer in Orlando has apparently been “systemitied”. You are the second person that had to provide the SN….  They mid a major job for a buddy in 2020 and were great and the mobile tech was super. One phone call.  Dead in CG…fixed.  

Here is my suggested follow up or “to do”.  

Do you have a sheet in the rear bedroom closet or taped in a plastic sleeve somewhere?  That is what we call the “build sheet” or list of all components that went into the MH.  It has the brand and model and SN.  Might be in the big file folder that, hopefully, you have.  I think that you can still get them from REV… IT even had the tire codes.  Chase that down. VIN Is all you need.

EDITED.....Next.  Whoever is working on your MH will (must/should) have the Cummins “InSight” diagnostic software.  Tell them you want a copy of the ECM on a thumb (CD?) DRIVE.  Tell them you want a printable copy as well.  The Electronic Copy is an EIF (file extension) that can only be read or used by the Cummins InSight Software.  That is an EXACT COPY of your ECM....including ALL the Monaco added info. 

NOW.....also request this.  Tell them to "print" it out as a PDF File.  The KEY HERE....they MUST SPECIFY ALL PARAMETERS....or the WHOLE FILE.  That will actually be 50 - 60 (or in that ballpark) page printout.  It is NOT necessary to print it out....unless you want to.  I have that....but one could read it off a laptop and finish reprogramming.

NOW....to clarify....  IF you loose your ECM, then a Cummins tech (or one with InSight) could immediately COPY over the program.  That INCLUDES the Engine serial number.  BUT, if someone had an ECM go bad....and had the EIF file for another, identical year model....then they would have all the emissions data and all the Cummins stuff in the ECM that Cummins supplies.  BUT, then the tech, as he did for my buddy, would have to MANUALLY input the Monaco Data and check the Cummins "Stuff".  If he tried to import or upload YOUR ECM into another MH, that would then put in YOUR engine SN and the ECM would be all confused.  Got that? END OF EDIT

The Tech can give you your SN, so you can write it down if you get another Artificial Intelligence Brain Dead person....Yes…it is a Roadmaster chassis and NOT a Freightliner…

Let us know as this progresses…  we understand that followup might get lost when the alligators nip at you…no problem…we just want to know and why and also what fixed it as that is how we learn.

 

 

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