MERGED - Same MH. Ran out diesel & No electricity

[tomevansfl]

21 hours ago, tomevansfl said:

 

...

The irony of this whole ordeal is that Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care refused twice to work on my RV because it was on a Freightliner chassis there was a ...

Typo, sorry my bad, it should read:

...Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care refused twice to work on my RV because it was not on a Freightliner chassis ...

 

20 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

...Do you have a sheet in the rear bedroom closet or taped in a plastic sleeve somewhere?  That is what we call the “build sheet” or list of all components that went into the MH.  It has the brand and model and SN.  Might be in the big file folder that, hopefully, you have.  I think that you can still get them from REV… IT even had the tire codes.  Chase that down. VIN Is all you need. ...

I looked for the build sheet in the bedroom in April and found a list of the options intalled on my coach, but as I recall, the engine serial number wasn't on the sheet.  The engine size & engine manufacturer was, but not the engine serial number.  I also looked at the I.D. plate behind the driver's seat.  The VIN number, GVWR,  axle weights,  etc. was listed, but not the engine serial number.  There was a "Unit serial number". But as I recall, the rep I talked to said that wasn't a Cummins engine serial number.

[Tom Cherry]

58 minutes ago, tomevansfl said:

 

I looked for the build sheet in the bedroom in April and found a list of the options intalled on my coach, but as I recall, the engine serial number wasn't on the sheet.  The engine size & engine manufacturer was, but not the engine serial number.  I also looked at the I.D. plate behind the driver's seat.  The VIN number, GVWR,  axle weights,  etc. was listed, but not the engine serial number.  There was a "Unit serial number". But as I recall, the rep I talked to said that wasn't a Cummins engine serial number.

EDITED....a sharp eyed member has notified me that my Cummins InSight name for the Software is incorrect....it is Insite.  I apologize for the error and will fix it below.

Bummer.  On my sheet, there are individual columns....as I suspect you have.  The last one is the SN and my Cummins is there.  BUT....the good thing....you have the sheet.  So NOW....talk to the folks at Cummins BEFORE they start the work. Tell them that you want an ELECTRONIC copy of the ECM.  Tell them that you want the PDF of the ECM with ALL Parameters checked.  Ask them if you need to come by and bring a Thumb Drive for them to copy it on.  OR....can they save it to YOUR file....and email it to you.  Cummins, once they hook up the Insite software AUTOMATICALLY LOADS a copy of the ECM into your "Customer File" That is supposed to stay on file for a long time.  Also discuss what they are going to do.  I don't know exactly how they do the trouble shooting.  They MAY, first, plug in the Insite (Diagnostic Cummins Software) and read the ECM to see what error codes or trouble codes they find....or they might start looking for the wiring issues that are causing the problem.

Bottom line.....they SHOULD plug in the Insite....and then look at the codes....many are just "BS" but some are pertinent.  Often times, you have an ECM Revision, like your computer, that needs to be downloaded to correct or prevent a problem.  SO, asking for or getting the engine "Scanned" is something that they routinely do.

Then, they can tell you if there are any issues you might not be aware of.  Sometimes many of the sensors and such will report a flaky code...or they will go bad.

That's it.  Good Luck.  Let us know...

Edited September 2, 2022 by Tom Cherry
Cummins Insite not InSight Software

[MyronTruex]

What model do you have?

My Endeavor has a hidden cover in the closet directly behind the large one over the engine. It required a lot of work to get to it the first time. I have pictures if you would like. If you have my files, you have the pictures already.

The closet doors were a bear to remove do to screws that were nearly impossible to get to. They no longer exist and the facia above the closet doors has been shortened by 1/4 inch to allow it to come out much easier. It is reinstalled with a couple of black sheet rock screws that are not noticed.

This little cover has/had carpet over it and using a knife I found the edge of it. With that second cover off I set the large cover back in place and can hang over the engine and use my camera to get the serial number off the timing cover. A selfie stick would work well. 

After resolving this access problem I can now get to the small cover in about ten minutes. 

Trying to remove the rear radiator to replace my engine fan many years ago led to the discovery of the cover. I would have been ticked to have removed that monster to get to it. I changed the fan blades in just minutes and never removed the belt. Much quieter and has more power to the wheels and gets better mileage. In recent years I changed the belt as a maintenace PM. It was easy enough but two people would have made it a breeze. 

[tomevansfl]

Thanks Tom and Myron,

I just have to wait 'till they call, or should I call them to make sure to get the info you suggest?  Would a regular "generic" code reader find the information?  I have been considering getting one from Advance or Autozone for my other vehicles.

[Tom Cherry]

4 minutes ago, tomevansfl said:

Thanks Tom and Myron,

I just have to wait 'till they call, or should I call them to make sure to get the info you suggest?  Would a regular "generic" code reader find the information?  I have been considering getting one from Advance or Autozone for my other vehicles.

MY TAKE.  YES.  Call them or email the Service Writer.  Tell them EXACTLY what you want....in addition to the "NO START".  Even go by.  They need to have a complete list.  I never take in my MH to any repair shop without a detailed printout of what I want done.  So, print it out and have them attach it to the service ticket.  Poor communication will result in you getting the MH "fixed" but not having the necessary backup INFO in case you ever have....and that DOES happen....an ECM issue.

In addition, telling them to do the complete SCAN and finding issues BEFORE they turn into failed engines or more costly items is, to me, good judgement.  

As to the scanners.  I don't use one....but I don't know what I would do....if I had one.  If I have an engine light....I will get it scanned by a Cummins or Cummins Equipped Insite Shop to see what the issues.  BUT, other folks like to know what is going on.  I gave up on working on high tech engines long ago.  I can and have rebuilt several engines from the bottom up....so it not like I am "not" mechanically inclined. I was Engineering Manager for a Carburetor company and also was the Project Manager for a new Fuel Injector line....so I am really familiar with the ECM and electronics and how all the different modules work on cars.  BUT, rarely can I get into the electronics without the proper diagnostic tool....

BUT....others are more inquisitive.....so the jury is out.  It is YOUR call.

BUT>>>>get straight with Cummins and get the PDF and the EIF files before you leave there....as well as the recap of anything of consequence that the Insite Diagnostic scan or probe turned up.

Good Luck...

[tomevansfl]

Update: I have called Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care twice and both times they said they have it in shop and will do the inspection/assessment that day.  Neither time have they called with results.
 

The last time I called the tech said he would email an estimate that day, but he didn’t. Because the engine wouldn’t turn over I had to have it towed. If it would start I’d go get it and take my chances with a different shop. 
 

I can understand them being busy and all they had to do is tell me that. But if they can’t be honest about that, how can I trust them to be honest about the repairs. 

Based on my experience I cannot, and will not, recommend Cummins of Orlando/Cummins Coach Care. 

BTW, it was towed to Cummins of Orland/Cummins Coach Care before Labor Day. It has been with them for over a month now. 

[Tom Cherry]

That is a pity.  I understand that Cummins has "purchased" all the Franchise Owned repair shops.  All I can say is that in March of 2020, they had a tech out within an hour.  He diagnosed my friend's issues.  He told them that there would be an ECM overnighted in.  The next day, after it was installed, the tech made the "OPPS
 remark.  Then I contacted Frank and within an hour, the Tech had the adders or the line items for his 08 Navigator.  He left the CG at noon....so his turnaround was about 24 hours.  It is a shame that dealerships have changed.....

 

[tomevansfl]

Moderator merged threads.  Same MH but two separate problems and this was just posted on the individual threads.  Similar responses from members.  Combined as this issue is “how to fix BOTH & Service Estimate”
 

 

OK folks, for the bad news:

 

I received an email estimate yesterday.  Replacing the two chassis batteries was included.  The diagnosis indicated trash in the fuel system.  The estimate was to remove the fuel tank, replace fuel filters and Guardian Repair, whatever that is.

Per the technician:

"after following the diagnostic steps we found fuel restriction to be very high, not what we expected, but technician continued and removed the fuel filter and found trash in the fuel filter. I have written this quote to drain, remove and clean fuel tank, fuel lines and replace fuel filters"

The total for labor was $4,500 plus a total of about $2,000 for parts.

I hope I can get it done cheaper somewhere else, what do you guys suggest?

[Dr4Film]

Do not walk but RUN form this place as they are going to drain your savings account as quickly as you sign on the bottom-line.

[jacwjames]

Get some Biobor algae treatment and some Startron enzyme treatment. 

Then google how to change your fuel filters and buy 6 of each type of filter you use, primary and secondary. 

Then try driving your rig and if you start sensing the rig is loosing power or stumbling change the primary filter,  Drive again and if does the same thing change primary and secondary.  Continue this until the problem goes away. 

The system actually reciculates quite a bit of fuel so over time you will polish the fuel in the tank.

If you want to get proactive install a FASS fueling system, I installed a 100 gph unit meaning it recirculate about 90 gallon per hour on a full tank, gets better as you empty your tank.  Won't take long to polish all the fuel plus you eliminate the original lift pump which is problem anyway. 

[Ivan K]

Looks like they estimate at least 3 full days worth of work. To change filters and blow a hose? I would not pull a tank that is not leaking, what kind of trash, algae  probably. The filter and battery cost?  Must include some imaginary parts. It would help to see the itemized quote to understand the scale of ripoff.

[Tom Cherry]

BUMMER.  I can make a comment on “parts”.  An Interstate 750 battery should be, over the counter, around $200.  I bought two for $150/$160 each 2 years ago.  I just priced a starting battery for GD’S car.  My Interstate distributor wanted $160 and Costco was $180 plus tax.  Budget $225 each.  

The two fuel filters, Cummins Fleetguard were $20 & $30 or $50 total…AMAZON.  

DOUBLE recommendation on BIOBOR AND STARTRON.  many, including myself use it.  Amazon SELLS both.  Maybe $50 for both.  Recommendations posted on how to use.  

FUEL POLISHING is a common practice or pumping out and filtering.  There will be many mobile services that do it for boaters locally.  The do. NOT REMOVE the tank.  I would want to know the type and amount of “trash”.  Metallic or wood or whatever particles would come from someone pumping unfiltered diesel..  gunk or sludge would be sediment from the conversion from the “old diesel” to the new.  Typically a black “tarry” substance.  Algae would be a concern.  You kill the algae.  If it was heavily infected, it probably will clog a filter.  The StarTron enzyme will “eat or break down”.  All diesel powered boat owners swear by Biobor as a preventative or a shock treatment (killer) and StarTron as a precaution so the engine will digest it.

if your tank is that bad, you will need 2 or 3 Genny filters also.

i would look for options.  

 

[birdshill123]

There is a lesson in this thread.  Stay away from Cummins unless it is warranty.  Freightliner is just as bad.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by birdshill123

[96 EVO]

45 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Looks like they estimate at least 3 full days worth of work.  

Wonder if they are planning on pulling the tank?

[Ivan K]

47 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Wonder if they are planning on pulling the tank?

Apparently they were and it would make it easy to clean for them and expensive for Tom.

[tomevansfl]

I have ordered the Star Tron and Biobor from Amazon.

Can I get the fuel filters from an auto parts store, or should I order from Amazon?

Anyone have the parts number for the fuel filters for 2001 Diplomat?

[Ivan K]

For me is always best to get under and see what's there for the first time. Someone might have made a change and then you are stuck with the wrong filter and start over. Also, my manual lists filter numbers in one of the last sections, I would assume it to be a norm. Does not matter where you buy, most of my filters are not available at regular automotive stores but it depends, google helps to find out.

[tomevansfl]

I don't have a hard copy of my manual.  I have a .pdf copy but is a pain to use because you have to scroll through one page at a time; you can't jump to the section you want.  But I will check it to see if there is a list of filters.

[Tom Cherry]

Here is the information - Section 10 of your manual - Page 270.  Ivan is correct.  Since it appears you are not going to accept the quotation....these are some options.  

Get you Engine SN from the Cummins Orlando.  They should have it on the ticket or in their files.  Call Cummins. 

The number is 1-800-Cummins..... 1 (800) 286-6467 

Then ask them.  They will give your the correct Fleetguard numbers.  

Another option....when you pick up the MH....stop in Parts.  Then ask for the Primary and the Secondary Filters.  Buy them....but ONLY one.  Parts will have to look up your service record.  Get a copy of that with the Engine Serial Number.....you will pay a little more for the first set...but you have the current Cummins numbers.

THEN....go to Filter Barn or Amazon and order additional sets. I personally only use the Fleetguard....but others use Baldwin and one of yours was a Raycor.

I agree with Ivan....see what is there....but when you get the number.....get the manufacturer....and then you can cross reference.....

Just saw your post.  YES....online is tough.  BUT, I suggest that you start at the beginning and take a week or a month and read the manual.....you can write down the page number for the Table of Contents.....or print it out.  Do the same for the index at the end.  That way, you can quickly find things.  You might also want to print out the first page of each of the 10 sections that lists what is where.  Hard copies of that in a notebook would make your searches easier.  

NOW....HERE is a TRICK. 

Download the manual.  Save it on your harddrive of on the desktop.  Open it in the FREE Adobe Reader.  Then move your cursor to the body of the first page.  RIGHT CLICK.  The Drop Down will have a FIND bar.  Click on that.  Then you can put in ANY search term.  Like FILTER.  Then as you click, Adobe will take you sequentially through every page or reference to filter.  I often use this to help members and saves me from searching.  BUT, you have to open the manual with the ADOBE FREE READER.  This will NOT work if you download the file and view it in your browser.  

2001 Diplomat Filter and Misc Information.pdf

[Dr4Film]

Cummins may only have one filter listed for the engine. In many cases, Roadmaster Chassis added a secondary filter after the engine was installed in the chassis. So, the information that Cummins may have can be different than what the Monaco manual states.

[tomevansfl]

55 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Cummins may only have one filter listed for the engine. In many cases, Roadmaster Chassis added a secondary filter after the engine was installed in the chassis. So, the information that Cummins may have can be different than what the Monaco manual states.

Thanks

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, tomevansfl said:

I don't have a hard copy of my manual.  I have a .pdf copy but is a pain to use because you have to scroll through one page at a time; you can't jump to the section you want.  But I will check it to see if there is a list of filters.

If you have a true PDF you can use the search function an look for key words to get you to the location pretty quick.  I do this all the time. 

Usually when we are on a trip and I have spare time I'll pull out my paper manual and go through it just to keep myself familiar with it.  I learn something new every time I do this. 

[tomevansfl]

Just a recap and update.
 

I picked up my RV today. I told them when I dropped it off on 9/8 that I wanted the fuel filters replaced (because trash in the lines was causing the engine to skip) and new batteries for the chassis or starter repair if that was the issue.
 

When I dropped it off, they had told me there was a $500 inspection fee and implied it would be credited if I had work done. They told me they would get to it the following week.  
 

I dealt with two people in the service department. First gave me an estimate of $6,500 to clean the fuel tank and fuel lines.  I declined. Second I dealt with another service writer for they oil change, fuel filters, and batteries.

When I picked it up, they added the inspection fee in addition to the batteries, oil change and air filter replacement. Total was $1,579.

They had my RV from 9/8-10/20 and that was all they did. I understand the batteries and air filter were not stock items but that just seems too long for the work they did. 
 

I rather doubt I’ll go back to Cummins Coach Care when I need service again. 

[RoadTripper2084]

That is absolutely ridiculous, but sadly these days, not at all uncommon.

I would chalk this up as an expensive, but extremely valuable learning experience.

Try to find a local independent diesel shop with good reviews.

[tomevansfl]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:39 PM, RoadTripper2084 said:

That is absolutely ridiculous, but sadly these days, not at all uncommon.

I would chalk this up as an expensive, but extremely valuable learning experience.

Try to find a local independent diesel shop with good reviews.

Thanks, I will be looking for an experienced Cummins shop not one owned/francise by Cummins.

On 10/5/2022 at 11:10 AM, Tom Cherry said:

Here is the information - Section 10 of your manual - Page 270.  Ivan is correct.  Since it appears you are not going to accept the quotation....these are some options.  

Get you Engine SN from the Cummins Orlando.  They should have it on the ticket or in their files.  Call Cummins. 

The number is 1-800-Cummins..... 1 (800) 286-6467 

Then ask them.  They will give your the correct Fleetguard numbers.  

Another option....when you pick up the MH....stop in Parts.  Then ask for the Primary and the Secondary Filters.  Buy them....but ONLY one.  Parts will have to look up your service record.  Get a copy of that with the Engine Serial Number.....you will pay a little more for the first set...but you have the current Cummins numbers.

THEN....go to Filter Barn or Amazon and order additional sets. I personally only use the Fleetguard....but others use Baldwin and one of yours was a Raycor.

I agree with Ivan....see what is there....but when you get the number.....get the manufacturer....and then you can cross reference.....

Just saw your post.  YES....online is tough.  BUT, I suggest that you start at the beginning and take a week or a month and read the manual.....you can write down the page number for the Table of Contents.....or print it out.  Do the same for the index at the end.  That way, you can quickly find things.  You might also want to print out the first page of each of the 10 sections that lists what is where.  Hard copies of that in a notebook would make your searches easier.  

NOW....HERE is a TRICK. 

Download the manual.  Save it on your harddrive of on the desktop.  Open it in the FREE Adobe Reader.  Then move your cursor to the body of the first page.  RIGHT CLICK.  The Drop Down will have a FIND bar.  Click on that.  Then you can put in ANY search term.  Like FILTER.  Then as you click, Adobe will take you sequentially through every page or reference to filter.  I often use this to help members and saves me from searching.  BUT, you have to open the manual with the ADOBE FREE READER.  This will NOT work if you download the file and view it in your browser.  

2001 Diplomat Filter and Misc Information.pdf 266.88 kB · 1 download

Thanks, I downloaded your copy of the manual.  It navigates better than the online version.