Slide undercarriage damage

[96 EVO]

When those plastic glide plates start deteriorating, they go quickly!

Mine went from a few surface cracks to big chunks falling out in one trip.

[BlueCastleRV]

On 7/4/2022 at 5:56 AM, throgmartin said:

Hi Mike:

I am a little late on this topic and for that I apologize. I looked over your pictures carefully and can tell you that the good news is you have no rot - yet. Unfortunately you will need Guardian Plates to correct the problem.

So you can better understand the problem and so others can maybe learn as well let me explain - your floor is called a flush floor. In other words it runs on an internal glide bar. There are no rollers. I have seen this type of damage hundreds of times and it is normally caused by a loosening of the laminate on the edges. One has to remember that on a flush floor the vast amount of weight and forces are applied at the edges of the slide during operation. This is why some Monaco's have a glide bar in addition to what are called corner blocks. These blocks are thick and stout and are 5 to 6 inches wide and are mounted to the floor of the bus at the corners.

The fix is an easy one - install Guardian Plates. Luckily you caught it early. I have seen it where the laminate has ripped inward by 24 inches and at that point the fix requires custom made plates ( much wider ) which are a PITA to install. My advice is to use a razor knife and trim the loose laminate off. Do NOT use glue or tape or you will create an absolute mess. Remember the bottom of the floor rides on a plastic glide bar and whatever you apply to the laminate will get wiped off the very first time you run the slide in and will get stuck on the glide bar creating a hell of a mess. Trust me when I say owners who applied tape, adhesive or whatever to the damaged areas of laminate on a flush floor slide have cost themselves a lot of extra time, money and headaches. It all gets ate up by the glide bar. If your coach is sitting in our service lot you are going to be paying one of my techs a lot of labor time to clean the gunk from that glide bar completely before installing guardian plates. I have done numerous slides like that and it takes time and effort because the glide bar is NOT in an easily accessed area. Never apply anything like tape or adhesive to the bottom of a flush floor slide.

Give my VP, Bethany, a call on Wednesday ( I closed the office and shop on Tuesday so my staff could have a long holiday weekend ). Her number is 352-942-2653. She knows the Guardian Plate system inside and out. Make sure you tell her I have already assisted you here on the forum. She can get your plates into production and ready for shipment. If you have any other questions let her or myself know. We can also assist you via phone and facettme during the installation process in the event you run into a problem. I also encourage you to watch my buddy Mike Z's youtube install videos. He made those for me and does a great job explaining the install procedures.

Just to make you feel better, here are some photos of slides I myself have plated. Obviously the owner never seen the damage as few owners ever inspect and look for this under their slides. I was able to fix all of them with the Guardian Plate system.

 

Thanks Chris! I spoke with Bethany this morning and we’ll be coming to see you on July 20th for installation. I very much appreciate your personal response here and look forward to the upgrade!

A big thanks to everyone on the forum who took the time. These are great rigs and let’s keep them that way!

 

Happy 4th of July!

Mike

[Tom Whitlow]

I dropped our coach at Talin in Brooksville, FL late on May 10th.  Picked it back up on the 12th.  Chris did a fantastic job!  Very pleased with the quality of his work.  I believe he also fixed the air whistling I was having with the entrance door.  Beautiful polished stainless steel plates.  If my coach wasn't in the shop, I'd take some photos.   Impressive job.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Tom Whitlow
Correction of misrepresentation

[96 EVO]

13 hours ago, Tom Whitlow said:

   Beautiful chrome plates.   

Man, don't let him see you calling them that 😲!

There polished stainless steel!

[BlueCastleRV]

I wanted to wrap up this thread by saying thanks to everyone at TalinRV, Great job with the guardian plates and first class all around. We were in and back on the road in a couple days.

 

[Tom Cherry]

59 minutes ago, BlueCastleRV said:

I wanted to wrap up this thread by saying thanks to everyone at TalinRV, Great job with the guardian plates and first class all around. We were in and back on the road in a couple days.

 

Nice.  Fascinating that my 2009 slide underside is totally different from yours.  You should be good to go.  Chris has a great crew from all the reports….

I can still remember crawling around and jacking up and riveting (big old hand tool) and then the clean up.  Looks almost as good as mine….LOL.  Chris could not afford to hire me and DW….

Happy Trails…

[96 EVO]

What's the Eternabond there for?

[Tom Whitlow]

I watched the Talin tech apply the short piece of Eternabond on the outside corners and asked why he did it.  He said they had a couple of earlier plates allow a little water to get in there.  So, the Eternabond is precautionary.  

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, Tom Whitlow said:

I watched the Talin tech apply the short piece of Eternabond on the outside corners and asked why he did it.  He said they had a couple of earlier plates allow a little water to get in there.  So, the Eternabond is precautionary.  

Having done 3 sets of plates, that is probably something that was easier to correct or prevent than getting a 100% leakproof seal….as well as a time saver. I was extra careful or maybe OCD meticulous on getting plenty of the sealer (Proflex, if I remember what Chris supplied in the kit) on the vertical section of the plate.  Then after the plate had a chance to “set and cure” for a day or so, I went back in and resealed the joint.  To make it visually “perfect” and look OEM, it took some doing and redoing….if one understands the “art” of getting a good functional bead that is aesthetically pleasing.

It also depends on what Monaco put on originally.  My slides had an extruded “rain gutter” or maybe more correctly, a flashing right above the corner.  On the first one, it was obvious to anyone with a lick of common sense and knew of the field issues that the assembler goofed and had them upside down.  So. I reversed them.  In effect, but calking them in place and reattaching using the original screws or maybe pop rivets, I added what roofers would call a “counter flashing.  

On the second two, I used the 3M Marine Sealer that Chris preferred and they were, in my OCD world, sealed and never to be water penetrated again.  

Chris’ guys have a great reputation…and that extra seal on the side is probably a good idea, unless you have the full length flashing or cap like I did.

[throgmartin]

A little history on these plates. I wasted thousands of dollars on stainless trying to perfect the Guardian Plate system. I had 2 beta testers who worked with me that were first class mechanics. They would install them then call me and we would go over changes that needed to be made. There ended up being 6 CAD drawing revisions made before I arrived at the perfect plate system. Many of the early plates were installed, ripped off and after revisions installed again on my coach. I had many failures in the beginning.

What prompted me to begin production of the plates is that I lost 3 ft of floor on my driver front slide. I had it replaced and a year and a half later the rot started again. I worked with a close friend of mine PJ McGann on designing the plates. He was a former Monaco factory supervisor in charge of body construction so his expertise was invaluable.

We later expanded our offerings to include custom roller plates for the bottoms of bed frames. We have had 2 customers come in just in the last two weeks who had to have their bed frames rebuilt and plates installed because their bedroom slide would not operate correctly. We have done a great deal of them over the years. I never considered plates for the bed frame rollers till 2018. They work great and makes the bed frame stout and run smoothly. That is another weak spot on Monaco/HR coaches - the inverted rollers on the inside of the bed frame tear up the wood.

I actually formed Talin out of boredom. I founded Stone Vos in 2006 after needing toppers for my coach. I wanted toppers that would last over a decade so I began making my own. Soon after others wanted me to make toppers and which turned Stone Vos into a thriving company that has produced well over 50,000 awning fabric products. After my wife retired from teaching and took over Stone Vos I had nothing left to do so I founded Talin. I launched the Guardian Plate system and soon after customers wanted me to do the installs so I began doing installs myself alone. After installing hundreds of plates I hired Dustin and now him and our team do the installs. I have since semi retired ( whatever that means ). I make every team member work with me on Guardian plate installs including our Vice President, Bethany. 

I have no idea how many plates we have turned out since 2017 but it is in the thousands. Of all my accomplishments in the RV Industry the Guardian Plate system is the one thing I have remained proud of. It has literally saved Monaco/HR owners hundreds of thousands of dollars in floor replacement costs. Before the Guardian Plates the only alternative coach owners had were expensive floor replacements. Large slide floor replacements are running $ 8 - 10,000. Full wall slides are between $ 15,000 and 20,000 dollars for floor replacements and many start rotting again once replaced. The Guardian plates correct the floor rot problems and roller damage forever. It is a crazy story to think boredom and necessity launched Talin. It is even crazier when you consider I had 2 brain cells left at the time and one was holding the other one hostage.  🙂

[jacwjames]

Thanks for the history.  I appreciate the number of times you used the word "Team" while discussing the your company/workers.  That's what makes things work, something I tried to instill during my career.  As they say, there is not "I" in Team. 

After hearing the stories of the slide floor damage I keep a close eye on mine, at some point if I ever get a sense that I have a problem I have do doubt I will be buying a set of the Guardian plates.

When I redid my flooring last year I decided to remove the bed box, prior to this I had noticed the slide acting up but had no indications of problems with the rollers and box.  Got a pretty rude awakening when I flipped the box up on end.  I ended up buying some metal from one of the big box stores and adding it to the bottom where the rollers run. 

While I had the bed box out I added some extra support underneath since the bottom is made of some pretty thin veneer.  One problem that I had was that my wife decided to store heavy stuff in the storage area.  At one point she had ~200lb of dog food>> not any more.   The slide works much better. 

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Guardian plates?  If your damage is not that bad, aluminum plates from Lowes will suffice.  That is what I installed on my 2004 Windsor.  Worked great for hundreds of opening and closing the slide.

Chuck B 

2004 Windsor

[SteveB]

That's a great story Chris. 

Just got in touch with Bethany, this weekend sent her photos and measurements for the DF plates.  I would have never known I had a problem until I sheared the small original drip edge off and got a look at the floor.  Great invention and look forward to stopping water infiltration with the plates soon.

[throgmartin]

1 hour ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

Guardian plates?  If your damage is not that bad, aluminum plates from Lowes will suffice.  That is what I installed on my 2004 Windsor.  Worked great for hundreds of opening and closing the slide.

Chuck B 

2004 Windsor

Chuck:

 

You typically offer great advice but this time you are way off the mark. Plating just the bottom does not nothing to stop floor rot. It actually will hide future floor rot. I know this to be true because I have torn dozens of plates off coaches that other service centers plated the way you describe. Underneath it was floor rot. To better clarify, floor rot is caused by water intrusion from the bottom trim piece at the edge of the slide. This trim piece has to be removed and a Guardian plate with a 90 degree outside angle covers the abandon trim piece.

Slapping a piece of metal on the bottom will do nothing to prevent floor rot. The only time we use flat plates is on rollers that are located inboard of the edge by more then 9 inches. Alliance started this fallacy about slapping a flat plate on the bottom of a slide near the edge and pronouncing the floor rot cured. I lost track of the number of Alliance plates I have ripped off because I had to get to the floor rot underneath. Flat plates near the edge are nothing more then band aids that hide future floor rot. 

One other thing, I designed the Guardian Plates to do is take the side brace and lock it into the floor to provide a much more rigid structure. This helps square the slide as well. It takes a weak slide which Monaco designed and provides much more support and a more solid structure.  

I spent 2 years researching, making and customizing floor rot, roller damage issues, flush floor failures, glide bar design and problems and roller designs to arrive at the Guardian Plate system. Speaking of Alliance, did you know they made their plates from aluminum ? There were a lot of complaints because as the aluminum aged, it tarnished. When a slide was brought in it wiped black tarnish on the carpet which is nearly impossible to remove. It also is a weak alloy and I have seen aluminum plates dent from the rollers. This is why I only use American made 304 mirror Stainless. It wont rust, form indentations and the rollers perform better on it. It is so darn hard that I have to have a fabrication company use a massive hydraulic press to bend the 90 degree edges. You will never get a nice aesthetically pleasing and perfect 90 degree bend using a hand brake. You can with cheap Chinese stainless but the 304 stainless we use is sourced from one steel mill who produces stainless for military fight jet projects.

 

Anyone can make Guardian plates by copying our design but none will have the same high quality. I am OCD about every single item I source for our plates.

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:33 AM, throgmartin said:

I had 2 brain cells left at the time and one was holding the other one hostage.  🙂

Self deprecating humor,  good stuff,  but I'm pretty sure you have 3 cells left maybe even 4.  😁 

The story of how your companies came about is really interesting, I like it.   We all get bored and we all have great ideas, well great in out own minds,  but all most non of us have built our ideas much less built a company out of it.  So congratulations, well done.

[Tom Cherry]

21 hours ago, throgmartin said:

Chuck:

 

You typically offer great advice but this time you are way off the mark. Plating just the bottom does not nothing to stop floor rot. It actually will hide future floor rot. I know this to be true because I have torn dozens of plates off coaches that other service centers plated the way you describe. Underneath it was floor rot. To better clarify, floor rot is caused by water intrusion from the bottom trim piece at the edge of the slide. This trim piece has to be removed and a Guardian plate with a 90 degree outside angle covers the abandon trim piece.

Slapping a piece of metal on the bottom will do nothing to prevent floor rot. The only time we use flat plates is on rollers that are located inboard of the edge by more then 9 inches. Alliance started this fallacy about slapping a flat plate on the bottom of a slide near the edge and pronouncing the floor rot cured. I lost track of the number of Alliance plates I have ripped off because I had to get to the floor rot underneath. Flat plates near the edge are nothing more then band aids that hide future floor rot. 

One other thing, I designed the Guardian Plates to do is take the side brace and lock it into the floor to provide a much more rigid structure. This helps square the slide as well. It takes a weak slide which Monaco designed and provides much more support and a more solid structure.  

I spent 2 years researching, making and customizing floor rot, roller damage issues, flush floor failures, glide bar design and problems and roller designs to arrive at the Guardian Plate system. Speaking of Alliance, did you know they made their plates from aluminum ? There were a lot of complaints because as the aluminum aged, it tarnished. When a slide was brought in it wiped black tarnish on the carpet which is nearly impossible to remove. It also is a weak alloy and I have seen aluminum plates dent from the rollers. This is why I only use American made 304 mirror Stainless. It wont rust, form indentations and the rollers perform better on it. It is so darn hard that I have to have a fabrication company use a massive hydraulic press to bend the 90 degree edges. You will never get a nice aesthetically pleasing and perfect 90 degree bend using a hand brake. You can with cheap Chinese stainless but the 304 stainless we use is sourced from one steel mill who produces stainless for military fight jet projects.

Anyone can make Guardian plates by copying our design but none will have the same high quality. I am OCD about every single item I source for our plates.

 

Ditto,

Chuck, you are a valuable resource, especially to our Windsor folks.  If Monaco had not “value engineered” their designs and cheapened up the original corner and slide floor materials….as well as having a covey….as RV demand grew…of untrained and supply issues…. Then we would not be where we are today.

YES.  IF one has a MH that, like my original Bedroom slide, developed an indent and then that indent propagated to a serious triangular void or hole….the kick plate might have worked.  I did consider that.  The problem that we faced in the infancy of failing floors was lack of knowledge.  

Chris was concerned when I sent him photos of my “UH OH”, as well as P.J. McCantts, that the failure came from concealed water damage.  I inspected and hole saw cut and did a “Engineer’s NCSI Forensics” examination.  The wood was clean and pure and no damage.  Just a freak structural failure.

Being an OCD Engineering Manager and head of several Maintenance departments and also the “water leaking through the roof” guy, I know a thing or two about water damage.  I thought about the kick plates.  I looked into getting and cutting or having a steel service center cut me a SS plate.  But, as you know, you need TWO plates to equally raise the entire slide floor to keep the mechanism functional. 

It seemed a bit short sighted to go to the time and trouble of installing a piece of aluminum that was not anodized or maybe too thin…and I know that you can get brass and such.  The other issue, and I looked at the design of the “rain gutters”, that I could kill two birds.  I would prevent potential or future water damage if I did the whole job and not just a partial repair. I pulled my records.  I fixed the rear bedroom, my first set, September, 2016.  The ONLY way I caught the problem as I don’t crawl under the slides every day was that I noticed a split or deep gash in the outer RR tire while traveling.  I took it in and me and the tire guy had the same opinion.  REPLACE.  Ouch…only a 4 YO tire.  Then, a month or two later, after finishing my trip and a few short hops to the beach, I bent down and admired my “new” purchase.  Looked up.  SAY WHAT….I had the gash and it was already an issue.  
 

I knew from the chatter on the old site that Chris had just started working on the plates and he seemed to be the “Shell Answer Man” on the bottom side issues of slide flooring,  We talked…sent pictures…measured….called P.J. McCantts as he was helping Chris as a friend.  Bottom line, I spent a heck of a lot less on the SS Guardian Plates than I did for the tire.  Collateral Pothole damage.  I talked to Chris WAY TOO MUCH as I gingerly started to grind off piece’s parts.  I then, on the other side, found a hammer and hooked HD putty knife method to peel off the outside or vertical portion of the aluminum angle frame and shared it with him…and the group.  Bottom line….the labor, even for experienced techs with their jacks and pneumatic tools and all their tricks, is still a time consuming process.  I work slow, methodically and am very OCD.  I also did secondary research on the adhesive that holds the plate in and the Loctite Tech told me that not matter what adhesive was used, that you got curing expansion on long runs or high surface area plates.  I let mine cure, with the Jack post under a little upward or compression to minimize the separation or the expansion.

Bottom line…I have pride in what I did.  Learned a lot.  Have NO $$$ regrets about using less costly materials and now, don’t have to worry about any failing seal or corner or all the water and/or structural issues that we see here.

I have had folks and techs ask what and how I did that….they get referred to Chris.  The next two, as I pointed out, another whole adventure.  Chris is aware of the issues, potentially, with the plastic non adjustable BAL Accuslide.  So folks might benefit.  The nylon plates, that Monaco added to the 2009….a running change ….maybe experimented on some earlier models was a fiasco.  Chris coached me through this and eventually, the mechanics and the methodology of how to install and do the job right came into focus.  I did them in March, 2018.  

SO….yes…in some cases, maybe, the kick plates will work….but folks, like you, that know and understand the mechanics of the slides might get by just to salvage the wearing section.  BUT…the installation is still tedious and you have to cut and fabricate and bevel and you do NOT end up with the Sherman Tank of a glide or repair plate….compared to the thicker SS Guardian Plates.  I DOUBT that I would have been as thorough and meticulous and bonded or attached the aluminum if I had not heard all the trials and issues to get them on and last.  The additional labor, NOT REQUIRED for my wear issues to address  and prevent future water incursion might have been 1/3 more.  But, I KNOW…trust me….that the vertical slide wall will fail before any water gets into the lower corner.  

Chris’ plates work.  He has a good, copyible, design and it focuses on water entry prevention as well as reinforcement of the under layer with a laminated SS plate that will be salvaged when they crush mine at the Junk Yard….IF they can peel them off.

Now, the ONE POINT that folks need to know from my “rebuttal” is that a drop down slide is a horse of a different breed….and Chris has worked and experimented with that so it was a piece of cake….and came up with a lasting fix to the thick and cracking cheap pieces of plastic or nylon that were OEM.

Thanks….