Tom Cherry Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 I bought my Camelot and it had factory warranty in January 2009. A few months later….BELLY UP. I drove it from Jacksonville to NC and noted some issues. Carried it to the HR Dealership in Greensboro that was operated by a good friend. Monaco refused to honor some of the items….as they should have been corrected by the selling dealer. Remember, if a defect is found PRIOR to the sale, the dealer eats that. So, they fixed or figured out all the issues, but I had a $150 or so bill. It surprised the service manager as to how “chincy” Monaco was getting. He told me to write a letter and odds are, I would get a reimbursement check. Apparently there MAY have been a “payables” file or entry with my name and it was, we assumed, approved for payment….but they filed and went belly up. I would get an occasional letter or form with some case or file or claim number. Today, over 13 years and 4 months later….I got another. Keep the faith….the bankruptcy court is trying to resolve the claim. I KID YOU NOT. As a matter of interest, several dealers, LD being the largest, did a class action suit against Navistar for the late or nonpayment of warranty claims. Monaco was “aging” them and were at least 4, maybe 6 months behind. Based on some comments from members here that had connections at LD, they got a settlement that was in the single digits….as in Millions. My buddy was part of the dealers that sat down with Navistar’s lawyers and the court trustee and also the “Monaco Management”, that was to take back over. My best guess, Navistar paid about 25% MORE than the original purchase price….to retain the dealer network. There was that much bad blood and many dealers walked. I think there was a tiered settlement. Sign up or continue to be a Monaco (Navistar) dealer and you get X%of your claim. Decline and you get Y%….purportedly, maybe 50 - 75% of the X percentage. I do wonder if I will ever get a check for $0.51 to settle….the beat goes on and we wonder at the speed of our judicial system. That letter made me laugh when all the talking heads and financials gurus were droning on about the purchase of some company that uses a blue bird as a logo. What do they know? Maybe in 20 years….as the Monaco sale was only $35 - $40 Million….not $44 BILLION. Remember the rules. No political venting….but chuckle and post if you see fit….or not… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrayj1 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Tom, nothing political about it, just good lawyering that gives the short end to dealers and customers. As long as we have lawyers running things we don't have a chance in hell of getting Monaco right or anything bigger than Monaco. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 I received the same letter today. It was interesting that the web site given in the letter had a typo. Here is a link to the Notice of Final Report with details under case number 09-10750. https://www.deb.uscourts.gov/trustees-final-reports-cases-filed-between-2000-2010 Tom, I'll let you search the 99 page document to see if your name shows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted July 12, 2022 Author Share Posted July 12, 2022 32 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said: I received the same letter today. It was interesting that the web site given in the letter had a typo. Here is a link to the Notice of Final Report with details under case number 09-10750. https://www.deb.uscourts.gov/trustees-final-reports-cases-filed-between-2000-2010 Tom, I'll let you search the 99 page document to see if your name shows up. You and I are not listed, one of the plants that I closed is….LD has over $7 Million….but not approved payment. Most of the claims are below 10% of the listed amount. Don’t quit your day job…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Hutto Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Hey Tom And Frank… Why don’t y’all file and ask for payment in the form of wiring diagrams, piping diagrams, videos and other technical documents! or better yet, some of the legacy parts laying in a warehouse somewhere 🤪 I'm sure we could get this fine group to chip in and buy you each Happy Meals (which is likely more than you’ll get from the lawsuit🤣) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 Scotty - all my warranty claims were paid in full and I was lucky enough to request and get the electrical schematics while Monaco had good customer service in early 2007. My coach also came with a number of freebies like wine glasses, Monaco carpet floor mats and other items. At the time I bought my coach I had lots of custom changes like exterior paint, Corian counter colors, interior carpet, and Intellitec keypad switch options. I worked directly with the Monaco factory in Oregon. In early 2007 Monaco would FedEx samples of fabric and Corian to select and the extra cost to custom make the coach was zero. I must say that my experience was great. Bought my 2008 coach from DeMartini in California. I picked it up a week after production in April 2007. I worked directly with the dealer owner Tim. Our agreement was that if I had any warranty issue, he would ship out the parts and I would install. There were a few items that needed repair and Tim honored our handshake agreement. My experience with both the Monaco factory and DeMartini was a very positive one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 10 hours ago, Wrayj1 said: Tom, nothing political about it, just good lawyering that gives the short end to dealers and customers. As long as we have lawyers running things we don't have a chance in hell of getting Monaco right or anything bigger than Monaco. Agreed. Lawyers will milk this suit until the stone is bone dry. But let's not forget the accountants and CFO's that should have been jumping up & down screaming the company was hemorrhaging. Yeah, they got chincy in the end (too little too late) but before that they should have upped the pricing or lowered their costs . . . . or maybe we can blame Frank McElroy 😉 . Frank, you got Her Royal Majesty's customer service but that was costly to Monaco. Multiply that times all the coaches they were building. Yeah, I would've milked that sweet deal too. At that point in time everything seemed like wine & roses (they probably threw some of that in, too). Happy Meals have gone out of sight. I'm out. - bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 We bought out 2002 Windsor in late 2008, the day I sent a deposit for I found out the operation I was working at was closing down. But I decided to go ahead with the purchase. In 2009 after I was laid off we decided to take a trip to AK, what you might say "making Lemonade out of Lemons". Talk about a leap of faith, we had only taken one other trip prior to making the ~15K 3.5 month trip. Since we didn't have to worry about time we decide to do the west coast on our way back. My wife actually had a friend in Eugene so we took an opportunity to tour the plant, this was in Sept 2009. The plant was working with skeleton crews. They were turning out very few coaches and when we were done with the tour we were able to walk through several that had just come off the line. We witnessed multiple problems as far as craftsman ship in the living areas but they had crews trying to remedy the problems. But I've wondered how many problems were there on thing I couldn't see. Electrical/mechanical gremlins just waiting for them to pop up. There was a salesman there begging people to buy one of the rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyjo Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 I got a letter too. I have no idea why, as I don't think Monaco owes me any money. Here is what I got: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 Fount this for background information: https://delawarebankruptcy.foxrothschild.com/2009/03/articles/bankruptcy-case-summary/monaco-coach-files-for-bankruptcy-and-seeks-order-approving-dealer-incentive-program/ Seems like a domino effect when the economy went belly-up. The market tanked (along with Lehman Brothers) so they couldn't sell RV's but add the requirement to buy back from defaulting dealers. Bummer. - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdshill123 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 Someday one of the B schools will do a paper on the bankruptcy. If this were a vehicle mfr. things would have been different, Without bringing up some of the wounds we all suffered the whole thing "stunk". I still believe that Navistar and Monaco colluded to make sure that no one other than them received anything! Before the bankruptcy Navistar had a person on the Monaco board. I was lucky that I had some warranty repairs done at Guaranty. Monaco could not supply parts as the suppliers were owed a lot of money. However some of them shipped the parts for warranty direct to the dealer. The bankruptcy Judge acted in a "strange" manner. Somehow after everything was approved Navistar found out that the purchase of Roadmaster was not part of the bankruptcy and Navistar would be liable for all warranty repairs. They went to the Judge and the "deal" was altered to include Roadmaster. Navistar paid very little for the whole Company. Finished and unfinished coaches and major parts were worth close to the whole amount paid. It seems that everything Navistar touched lost most of it's value. Think of Workhorse .When Rev bought Fleetwood they continued to offer Tech support and honored all warrantees. But when Rev took over Monaco things changed. None of this needed to happen. Monaco was a large Company and made some serious errors when the economy took a dive. They could easily have recovered. When you look at the quality of today's MH's and the high prices Monaco cold have outsold them all. End of Rant!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted July 26, 2022 Author Share Posted July 26, 2022 NOT EXACTLY....ABSOLUTELY PERTAINS>>>> but with a little "Moderator's Poetic License"....I thought this was fascinating. This was an excerpt from a major "piece" on the MarketWatch Financial Site.....just copied and pasted.... I don't know...nor does it matter if some of the hyperlinks come. These articles are usually behind a paywall, but I dumped all my history lately so I get a bit of free browsing. WHO'DA THOUGHT? Wonder if THIS TOO, shall pass, as in 2008....? The pandemic spurred millions of Americans to abandon city life, fleeing to the ‘burbs. A new report highlights a novel destination for would-be homeowners to consider: The R.V. capital of the world. The Wall Street Journal/Realtor.com Emerging Housing Markets Index, released Tuesday, ranked Elkhart-Goshen, Ind., as the top housing market. The northern Indiana city is known to produce as much as 80% of recreational vehicles globally, with manufacturers headquartered in the city. These include companies like Jayco, Keystone, and more. The metro area has one of the lowest unemployment rates compared to others on the index, at 1.6%, the report said. The median list price for a home in Elkhart-Goshen was $279,450 in June, which was up 17.2% from the previous year - Realtor.Com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrayj1 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 No offense to those who live in Indiana, but the humidity, the bugs as well as too far from the Pacific Ocean would make that a no go for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Not sure how many employees Keystone has, but it's 334 less now. https://news.yahoo.com/keystone-rv-close-two-goshen-090404211.html Slowdown in the RV market? - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdshill123 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 It is2008 all over again. The rv factories were pumping out units as if there was no end. Then came the bankruptcies Could happen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted July 26, 2022 Author Share Posted July 26, 2022 3 hours ago, cbr046 said: Not sure how many employees Keystone has, but it's 334 less now. https://news.yahoo.com/keystone-rv-close-two-goshen-090404211.html Slowdown in the RV market? - bob Good find. Real World….better than some AI researched fluff piece. Obviously, as I made recommendations that lead to more WARNS than I have fingers and toes….the WARNS are reality. CW (stock) has been a YoYo. Folks started buying RV and new large $$ trucks to tow with and MH when fuel was barely above $2 per regular and Diesel was under control. THEN, they wanted to get COVID QUARANTINE FEVER RELIEF. If you happened to be in an urban area….when a bike shop got a tractor trailer load of Bikes….priced in the high 3”s or low 4’s…it was like a riot. Now….nobody wants them…and you can buy a barely used one for half or less of the purchase price….and as the “R” word looms on the horizon….it does not look like the used bike prices will go up, Personally…sticker shock, Made a deal with my GK’s….just like my kids. Save your birthday and spare money and work and I would match it. So when they wanted a car….they had a LOT of skin in the game. Two years ago, we found a good used 2011 Maxima….plain Jane and reasonable miles. It was bought when NO ONE was inside the dealership. Now, a 2013 same condition is 75% MORE…ok, maybe only 50%….and few and far between. We’re holding off on GD until late year…predicting mass repos that will kill the overall market. Probably not to the “dire straits” fire sale price we got…but a LOT cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J A Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Well as Hillary said, " At this point, wht difference does it make". I was in that mess too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinvz Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Well we do not have a claim to submit, so no benefit due. We bought our 2006 LaPalma in 2014. Wilmington DE where the court is, is about 5 miles down the road. If enough of you guys sign up I can attend the session and bill you for the service as that will be the only way I could get anything ... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now