ECM on a monaco diplomat

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

It doesn't even have to be a Cummins service. Any decent diesel shop would be able to do it in the parking lot. It takes me longer to boot the laptop than to get an image. My laptop is just as old Jim's but that is all I use it for.

Ivan nailed it.  Anyone with the InSight Cummins SW and a good computer can do it.  Print out is optional. Easier to read than going back and forth.  
 

YES.  CUMMINS is or were supposed to do that on every check in and maintain a file.  I have both printout, in MH and a e-copy on laptop.

[jacwjames]

6 hours ago, Grampy OG said:

Sorry this is a new one for me so I need to pose this question. If everything seems to be OK with my coach could I go into Cummins preemptively and have the data downloaded and copied to files to be saved in case of future problems? If I am understanding it is probably an hour or so of labor which would be money well spent. 

 

Thanks Ken

 

 

 

 

 

When I first bought my 2002 Windsor in 2008 there were no maintenance records.  I wanted to get a baseline so I took it the Cummins shop near me had them do a full service and inspection.  They also gave me a copy of my ECM settings in printed and on a CD.  They checked for fault codes etc.

When they were done the shop manager went over everything with me.  He actually worked for me as Maintenance Superintendent ~8 years before.  So he took the time to make sure the shop crew took care of me and when everything was said and done he said the rig was "Cherry" and I got a heck of a deal. 

When I bought my Windsor it had been a bank repo, but when I looked at it I couldn't find anything wrong with it.  Sometimes you get lucky. 

[Grampy OG]

6 hours ago, Ivan K said:

It doesn't even have to be a Cummins service. Any decent diesel shop would be able to do it in the parking lot. It takes me longer to boot the laptop than to get an image. My laptop is just as old Jim's but that is all I use it for.

Thanks Ivan. 

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

When I first bought my 2002 Windsor in 2008 there were no maintenance records.  I wanted to get a baseline so I took it the Cummins shop near me had them do a full service and inspection.  They also gave me a copy of my ECM settings in printed and on a CD.  They checked for fault codes etc.

When they were done the shop manager went over everything with me.  He actually worked for me as Maintenance Superintendent ~8 years before.  So he took the time to make sure the shop crew took care of me and when everything was said and done he said the rig was "Cherry" and I got a heck of a deal. 

When I bought my Windsor it had been a bank repo, but when I looked at it I couldn't find anything wrong with it.  Sometimes you get lucky. 

I don't think I will lag on this one. With an '03 the odds of getting a good copy from another coach can't be near as good as just getting my own. Having had several services done at the local Cummins I wonder if they don't already have that file. Oh well no sense leaving anything to chance and YUP I am glad I don't have Multiplex. I avoided that on purpose when I bought the '03.

Thanks Ken

[Tom Cherry]

9 minutes ago, Grampy OG said:

Thanks Ivan. 

I don't think I will lag on this one. With an '03 the odds of getting a good copy from another coach can't be near as good as just getting my own. Having had several services done at the local Cummins I wonder if they don't already have that file. Oh well no sense leaving anything to chance and YUP I am glad I don't have Multiplex. I avoided that on purpose when I bought the '03.

Thanks Ken

Cummins is SUPPOSED, company policy, to keep on file.  Get your VIN and call each of the dealers.  Odds are….one has it.  They are also supposed to make you an E-COPY on request.  Go to them or have it emailed….simple and easy and cheap.  You may be better off than you think…

LET US KNOW… that way we stay current.

Thanks

[Frank Bergamo]

For those of us with a CAT motor, should this also be done with our ECM’s?  Will a Cummins shop be able to do this, or just a CAT shop?

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, Frank Bergamo said:

For those of us with a CAT motor, should this also be done with our ECM’s?  Will a Cummins shop be able to do this, or just a CAT shop?

YES and/or maybe NO.  As pointed out, any qualified Diesel shop or mobile tech dispensed from one SHOULD have a laptop or a device to read the ECM.  NOW, I am making an assumption that the CAT software will be required and that the Cummins InSight will not know “Cat” from a cutesy little furry purring creature.  LOL.

if the dealer works on CAT and CUMMINS…they MUST have both…or maybe, guessing, a third party OEM diagnostic that will read both.  I personally would want ONLY the CAT Approved and supplied (Licensed) diagnostic software.  As long as they have the CAT system, the they can run a diagnostic….copy the program electronically and put it on a flash drive or a CD for you. That is what you need IN THE MH. Optional…a hard (50+ page) printout will work as well.

So, do some research.  Frank printed out mine. I SUSPECT that to print it out, one needs the “software” with the PRINT option.  That would be easier to reprogram from….but the tech that did my buddies did it from his laptop and the diagnostic tablet or whatever interface he was using…and it was less than an hours job to go through and type in the values or “check this box” setup.

That’s my advice….

[Frank McElroy]

I know I'm coming in late to this discussion but I might be able to clarify a few things.

As time went on and as engine technologies developed to meet tighter emission standards, the complexity of the ECM did the same.  Adding DPF, and DEF brought it up another notch.

There are two levels of ECM engine controls. One is set at the Cummins factory and it sets the basic engine operating conditions to meet application specific parameters and emission standards.  Only Cummins R&D has the password to unlock the software to make these changes.  We're talking things like changing the software that controls commanded fuel rail pressures based on engine load, VGT position, injector pulse widths, injector timing, egr control etc.

With a professional version of INSITE software, a technician can change a number of parameters mentioned in Tom's posts.  Things like auto engine brake while using cruise control, governor settings, and about a hundred other drive train parameter settings can be changed.  An internal trip function can be reset so a new owner can monitor how they are driving the coach.

Some of the parameters are engine specific.  A good example is the calibration of the VGT turbo to the engine and the specific calibration numbers of the six cylinder injectors.  Yes, the engines with DPF and above have calibrated fuel injectors that the ECM uses to set cylinder specific fuel injection characteristics.  When an injector gets changed in that engine a new injector calibration number needs to be entered into the software.

Every time a shop uses Insite software, a new work order is automatically created and stored on the laptop.  In theory your shop should have a copy of your ECM parameters.  But in practice, many shops will delete those files mainly to save hard drive space.

[Grampy OG]

On 7/23/2022 at 3:48 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Cummins is SUPPOSED, company policy, to keep on file.  Get your VIN and call each of the dealers.  Odds are….one has it.  They are also supposed to make you an E-COPY on request.  Go to them or have it emailed….simple and easy and cheap.  You may be better off than you think…

LET US KNOW… that way we stay current.

Thanks

Thanks for that heads up Tom. The only dealer I have taken this to is only 3 miles from my house. I will just pop in and talk to the service manager. Getting stuff done on the phone anymore has gotten harder and harder for me. 

Yes I will post what I find out after I go over Tuesday morning. 

Ken

 

[chris timms]

On 7/24/2022 at 4:01 PM, Tom Cherry said:

YES and/or maybe NO.  As pointed out, any qualified Diesel shop or mobile tech dispensed from one SHOULD have a laptop or a device to read the ECM.  NOW, I am making an assumption that the CAT software will be required and that the Cummins InSight will not know “Cat” from a cutesy little furry purring creature.  LOL.

if the dealer works on CAT and CUMMINS…they MUST have both…or maybe, guessing, a third party OEM diagnostic that will read both.  I personally would want ONLY the CAT Approved and supplied (Licensed) diagnostic software.  As long as they have the CAT system, the they can run a diagnostic….copy the program electronically and put it on a flash drive or a CD for you. That is what you need IN THE MH. Optional…a hard (50+ page) printout will work as well.

So, do some research.  Frank printed out mine. I SUSPECT that to print it out, one needs the “software” with the PRINT option.  That would be easier to reprogram from….but the tech that did my buddies did it from his laptop and the diagnostic tablet or whatever interface he was using…and it was less than an hours job to go through and type in the values or “check this box” setup.

That’s my advice….

Thanks, managed to find an 2003 diplomat manufactured in the month of August of that year ,40 minutes away 

my diplomat is 2002 October manufactured so hopefully nothing changed in the ECM additional input info 

will try on Wednesday 

thanks for advice 

[chris timms]

Thanks to all your information posted, engine on 2003 diplomat up and running once again , info down loaded from Cummins engineer from similar model diplomat all good  , will keep copy in case any one is in need

holiday ready ( after MOT )  Cornwall Engand 

[Tom Cherry]

43 minutes ago, chris timms said:

Thanks to all your information posted, engine on 2003 diplomat up and running once again , info down loaded from Cummins engineer from similar model diplomat all good  , will keep copy in case any one is in need

holiday ready ( after MOT )  Cornwall Engand 

WONDERFUL!  Hard to beat perseverance and a little stubbornness….  LOL.

Let us know, just out of curiosity, if the shifting and drivability functions seem “close”.  Even if the 2002 had the optional 350 vs the 330 ….which was also the standard and only engine in 2003, the tire sizes and rear end ratios were the same….so I would assume that the “factory” Cummins emissions were downloaded into your ECM and the rest of the “Monaco” parameters were identical.  Really a happy ending. Great.

[chris timms]

Hi Tom   , all functions seem to work as they did before no glitches , took it about 30miles for MOT and passed ,

great to be back in driving seat again , only thing that has changed is the oil pressure dial is not working , presume i've knocked the sensor or wire connector 

when looking for faults, not sure how important it is to fix before i go away ,

cheers Chris

[Tom Cherry]

3 minutes ago, chris timms said:

Hi Tom   , all functions seem to work as they did before no glitches , took it about 30miles for MOT and passed ,

great to be back in driving seat again , only thing that has changed is the oil pressure dial is not working , presume i've knocked the sensor or wire connector 

when looking for faults, not sure how important it is to fix before i go away ,

cheers Chris

Thanks....that is great.  We all learn.  Please send the Ecopy of the program to @Frank McElroy  He and some others might be keeping these on file and it adds to our data base resources.  

Pack up the brood...and enjoy...

[Mike T Phillips]

I took my 2008 holiday rambler to Cummings power south in Tampa, fl  for a check engine light that was a water in fuel Sensor it turned out to be a high voltage on that line. Cummings Power south in Tampa flashed the computer without making a copy of the programming I have lost the cruise control the exhaust brake and the speedometer when they reset the speedometer they said it to a manual transmission and told me it was an Allison transmission part that was bad. After leaving them I went to an Allison transmission shop they said everything on the Allison transmission was perfect I took it to another diesel dealer and he told me that it was a code 240. Code 240 is a bad speed sensor after replacing the speed sensor at another diesel shop they found out that the programming was bad I took it to another Cummings dealer and they can’t seem to figure out the settings for the cruise control or the exhaust break any help would be greatly appreciated I have a Cummings for 425 ISL in a 2008 holiday rambler 43 foot

[jacwjames]

12 minutes ago, Mike T Phillips said:

I took my 2008 holiday rambler to Cummings power south in Tampa, fl  for a check engine light that was a water in fuel Sensor it turned out to be a high voltage on that line. Cummings Power south in Tampa flashed the computer without making a copy of the programming I have lost the cruise control the exhaust brake and the speedometer when they reset the speedometer they said it to a manual transmission and told me it was an Allison transmission part that was bad. After leaving them I went to an Allison transmission shop they said everything on the Allison transmission was perfect I took it to another diesel dealer and he told me that it was a code 240. Code 240 is a bad speed sensor after replacing the speed sensor at another diesel shop they found out that the programming was bad I took it to another Cummings dealer and they can’t seem to figure out the settings for the cruise control or the exhaust break any help would be greatly appreciated I have a Cummings for 425 ISL in a 2008 holiday rambler 43 foot

Prior to this had you had any engine work done on it at a different Cummins shop.  They may have made a copy of it.  

Last time I was on the Cummins Quickserve site in the System View tab under Electronic Management system it has a Calibration Software with a number associated to it,  Wonder if that would help your stellar Cummins shop fix their mistake?

[Mike T Phillips]

This coach is new to me as last October.    And this is the first time I have ever taken it to a Cummings shop.     The previous owner has died so I can’t ask him 

[jacwjames]

1 minute ago, Mike T Phillips said:

This coach is new to me as last October.    And this is the first time I have ever taken it to a Cummings shop.     The previous owner has died so I can’t ask him 

Cummins should be able to check their database for any work done on the engine, as long as they shops submitted it into the network. 

Your only other option is to look for the same make/model/year coach with the same engine

[Ivan K]

48 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Last time I was on the Cummins Quickserve site in the System View tab under Electronic Management system it has a Calibration Software with a number associated to it,  Wonder if that would help your stellar Cummins shop fix their mistake?

The calibration file only makes a specific engine type work as far as Cummins part goes but it does not have any of the 'accessory' details that Monaco added. Not saving an image as part of a work order is a major screwup by the tech. This doesn't only apply to motorhomes. The software will either automatically take an image, or if that option is disabled, it will prompt to say yes or no.

[Mike T Phillips]

Thought I saw somewhere on this fireman their was a website you could go to with your engine number and get the parameters but I can’t find it now

Forem not fireman.     

[vanwill52]

Had to have my ECM replaced a couple of years ago.  It was bad enough that it would not allow downloading the parameters file.  The independent shop doing the work found out which Cummins dealer sold the engine to Monaco.  The tech called them and they sent him a digital copy of the parameters.  This included all the Monaco-specific parameters.  The Cummins shop had pre-programmed the ECM to suit the exact Monaco it was being installed on.  Their were no glitches, and everything worked as before.

[Mike T Phillips]

How do I find this info as to which sho sold the engine to Monaco 

[vanwill52]

Engine/ECM serial numbers.

[Mike T Phillips]

This is the only numbers I can find 

[Frank McElroy]

11 hours ago, Mike T Phillips said:

I took my 2008 holiday rambler to Cummings power south in Tampa, fl  for a check engine light that was a water in fuel Sensor it turned out to be a high voltage on that line. Cummings Power south in Tampa flashed the computer without making a copy of the programming I have lost the cruise control the exhaust brake and the speedometer when they reset the speedometer they said it to a manual transmission and told me it was an Allison transmission part that was bad. After leaving them I went to an Allison transmission shop they said everything on the Allison transmission was perfect I took it to another diesel dealer and he told me that it was a code 240. Code 240 is a bad speed sensor after replacing the speed sensor at another diesel shop they found out that the programming was bad I took it to another Cummings dealer and they can’t seem to figure out the settings for the cruise control or the exhaust break any help would be greatly appreciated I have a Cummings for 425 ISL in a 2008 holiday rambler 43 foot

When a shop using the Cummins Insite software connects to the engine computer, the software automatically stores an image copy on the technician's computer in the work orders history.  So, unless the tech deliberately went into the Insite work orders list and deleted the work order when they first connected to your coach, they already have the parameter list before they flashed the computer.  It sounds like the tech doesn't know how to retrieve Insite work order history.

[jacwjames]

20 minutes ago, Mike T Phillips said:

This is the only numbers I can find 

I believe the Engine No is the SN.

It would be worth your while to set up an account on the Cummins Quickserve site https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html

Once you create and account you can register your engine and it will give you all the info you need for your engine, parts, service manuals etc. 

You might also try and contact REV https://www.monacocoach.com/contact-us/

People have had some success getting info from them, ask for a Build sheet which will have a list of most of the major components (including the engine) with the manufacturer, make/model/Sn.     Also try and get a digital copy of wiring diagram and chassis wiring diagram.  Worth a shot.