Reliable Toad Braking System recommendations

[jacwjames]

I usually surf between Monacoers.org and IRV2.com sites.  Each offer great information and IRV2 gives insite into other make/model coaches.

There was a recent post detailing damage to the rear cap of a Sea Breeze but the OP did not explain how it happened.  He finally did this AM by providing a link to a blog they maintain.   https://rvseniormoments.com/2022/08/05/how-should-we-fix-our-rvs-rear-cap/

Scroll down and you'll see how it happened but basically coming to a dead stop the Jeep they were pulling actually climbed the pack of the coach, the tow bar acting as a lever to get it up there.   I've never seen anything like that.

So a lot of times Newbies will post "do I need a supplemental braking system" , see this more on IRV2 then the Monacoers site but the answer is YES.   When I bought my Jeep GC I set it up myself with the baseplate, tow bar, lights & braking system.  It did not get towed until it was all done. 

 

Last year one of my wives friends with family visited in their 40' Class A gas rig,  they were pulling a full size F150 Pickup and were pretty heavily loaded.  Out of curiosity I asked what kind of braking system they were using.  The answer was NONE, they had one and had just recently paid to have someone rig up the truck with lights etc but never set up the braking system.    FWIW, I just sent them a link to this Blog this AM.   Hopefully that will push them to get the system set up and working.

If you know people who don't use a braking system you might consider doing the same thing. 

Jim

 

[JDCrow]

Also, they claimed their toad  braking failed from a dead battery. Need to get a wire and a charger on there. 
 

I installed a charger for fear of the F-150s stupid flat tow mode. I was fearful that the trans/transfer case/hubs would re-engage if they lost power, thus destroying something and be out of pocket on my end. 
 

I was in the camp, why need brakes? But everyone here was kind enough to walk me through it 

Edited August 6, 2022 by JDCrow

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

The tow bar needs to be level to the ground when hooked up to the coach.  The reason for that is when you apply the brakes on the coach especially in a panic stop, the nose of the coach goes down with the rear of the coach going up.  The nose of the toad goes down pushing the tow bar up.  The result is what you see in the picture.

Chuck B  2004 Windsor

[gjh2916]

Towing without a braking system

[jacwjames]

I know my braking system works.  I have a Brakemaster 9160 model pneumatic system which works off of my coach brakes.  Pretty fool proof.  I also have the light mounted in the dash showing when the brake is working.  When I first start out I make sure the light comes on when I press the coach brakes.

My Jeep gets towed far more then driven.  I've had to put new brakes on the front earlier this year even though it only showed ~25k miles since the last time.  Yes it's a cost but compared to the benefit it is well worth it.  Just have to be aware that you'll have to check your brakes more often. 

[Paul J A]

Had a JGC as a toad 8 of years full timing 10 years, with M & G Brake system. Never had to replace brake linings in 115K Driving, 78K towing .

[JDCrow]

2 hours ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

The tow bar needs to be level to the ground when hooked up to the coach.  The reason for that is when you apply the brakes on the coach especially in a panic stop, the nose of the coach goes down with the rear of the coach going up.  The nose of the toad goes down pushing the tow bar up.  The result is what you see in the picture.

Chuck B  2004 Windsor

Good point. I’ve seen some so out of whack I don’t know how they even make turns 

[bftownes]

I have well over 100,000 miles towing a toad.  Two Jeep Wranglers and now a GMC Terrain.  Full-timed for ten years in a new 2001 Diplomat LE.  Never used a braking system.  However, I have always made sure my tow bar was perpendicular to the street once hooked-up.  People towed toads for years and millions of miles before braking systems were invented.  Now, this is just my opinion, but, I think braking systems are a cash cow for the manufacturers and the retail outlets that sell and install them.  

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Don't you mean parallel instead perpendicular?  Chuck B

Many states require a braking system for what is towed that weighs over a given limit.  Chuck B 

[JDCrow]

https://support.rvpartshop.com/support/solutions/articles/62000212074-dinghy-towing-braking-laws-by-state-province

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Good find JD, Chuck B

[bftownes]

1 hour ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

Don't you mean parallel instead perpendicular?  Chuck B

Many states require a braking system for what is towed that weighs over a given limit.  Chuck B 

Yes, I meant parallel.

1 hour ago, JDCrow said:

https://support.rvpartshop.com/support/solutions/articles/62000212074-dinghy-towing-braking-laws-by-state-province

We have all seen articles like this.  Not trying to be a contrarian, but when presented with data like this, I always ask "how many people have your personally met that has received a ticket or even a warning for not having a braking system".   Three years ago, I was at Elkhart Campground in Elkhart, IN.  There was a Canadian there in a large DP.  I told him that I had heard that Canada will not allow a motorhome and toad across the border without a braking system.  He laughed and said "bull sh**".

[JDCrow]

36 minutes ago, bftownes said:

Yes, I meant parallel.

We have all seen articles like this.  Not trying to be a contrarian, but when presented with data like this, I always ask "how many people have your personally met that has received a ticket or even a warning for not having a braking system".   Three years ago, I was at Elkhart Campground in Elkhart, IN.  There was a Canadian there in a large DP.  I told him that I had heard that Canada will not allow a motorhome and toad across the border without a braking system.  He laughed and said "bull sh**".

Bro, its just the facts. If we all choose which laws we will and won’t follow, where does it leave us?  I agree some some laws are garbage, but I guess we each have to live with choices. 

[jacwjames]

I look at more from a personal liability issue.   I carry full coverage on my coach.  You might say it's a Risk Mitigation investment. 

What happens if I'm in a bad accident and I didn't have a toad braking system and it was my fault (I know the odds are slim on this but work with me🤑)  Seems like people sue at drop of a hat. 

Hopefully having a good braking system will prevent an accident but if there is one at least it mitigates some of the potential problems. 

But everyone is free to make their own choices but must be prepared for the worse case scenario 

Last Nov traveling east on I40, traffic was stop and go sometimes +65mph an at a dead stop, I crested a hill and traffic was at a dead stop in front of me.  A highway patrol car was driving toward me in the left hand shoulder with his lights on trying to warn people but the problem was it was a blind hill.  I slammed on my brakes and flipped on my emergency flashers trying to warn people behind me.  Wasn't in an accident buy I've got to think having the toad braking system definitely helped.

[MyronTruex]

I sure wish my supplemental brake would have worked going down a long long steep grade into Death Valley. About added several more to boot hill. That thing was a piece of junk. 

Using Ready Brake now and it is kind of bullet proof if you make a few modifications to the braking cable clamps.

Not critical to keep up the toad battery with this setup but I have a DC to DC charger and things seem to be staying charged very nicely.

Towing a 4x4 F150. 

 

[JDCrow]

5 minutes ago, myrontruex said:

I sure wish my supplemental brake would have worked going down a long long steep grade into Death Valley. About added several more to boot hill. That thing was a piece of junk. 

Using Ready Brake now and it is kind of bullet proof if you make a few modifications to the braking cable clamps.

Not critical to keep up the toad battery with this setup but I have a DC to DC charger and things seem to be staying charged very nicely.

Towing a 4x4 F150. 

 

Yeah my RVI plugs in. It runs off battery to keep the compressor running. I pretty sure (due to experience, 😂) that the outer IWE are a vacuum on to disengage. I guess my thoughts are if the truck were to lose voltage, the vacuum would cease and the IWE would engage. Not end of the world, but I’ve detonated a few now wheeling. I carry a spare as they can be hard to get along with the splitter valve that goes out all the time. 
 

We are moving on to a used Jeep JKU for flat tow. Shift Park to neutral, transfer case to neutral, trans back to park, walk away. 

The flat tow sequence on our Rap is down right both frustrating and nerve wracking at times LOL. Always stoping to open the door to make sure it dings and the message center still says flat tow. 
 

Glad to another Ford guy on! Well Fords and now a Jeep!
 

[MyronTruex]

2 minutes ago, JDCrow said:

Yeah my RVI plugs in. It runs off battery to keep the compressor running. I pretty sure (due to experience, 😂) that the outer IWE are a vacuum on to disengage. I guess my thoughts are if the truck were to lose voltage, the vacuum would cease and the IWE would engage. Not end of the world, but I’ve detonated a few now wheeling. I carry a spare as they can be hard to get along with the splitter valve that goes out all the time. 
 

We are moving on to a used Jeep JKU for flat tow. Shift Park to neutral, transfer case to neutral, trans back to park, walk away. 

The flat tow sequence on our Rap is down right both frustrating and nerve wracking at times LOL. Always stoping to open the door to make sure it dings and the message center still says flat tow. 
 

Glad to another Ford guy on! Well Fords and now a Jeep!
 

I printed and laminated the instructions for putting the F150 into the tow mode. The wife gets frustrated trying to do it. One must "follow" the instructions closely. When and when NOT to press the brake while programming it for example. 

[Scotty Hutto]

9 hours ago, bftownes said:

I have well over 100,000 miles towing a toad.  Two Jeep Wranglers and now a GMC Terrain.  Full-timed for ten years in a new 2001 Diplomat LE.  Never used a braking system.  However, I have always made sure my tow bar was perpendicular to the street once hooked-up.  People towed toads for years and millions of miles before braking systems were invented.  Now, this is just my opinion, but, I think braking systems are a cash cow for the manufacturers and the retail outlets that sell and install them.  

I’m glad you’ve been lucky so far but can’t condone anyone advocating not using a toad braking system. 

My experience is very different. In 2016 in my previous coach (Holiday Rambler Vacationer) I was pulling a toad with a Brake Buddy system that (unknown to me) had failed.  An 18 wheeler in front of me locked up his brakes (I never saw why) and I had to come to a full panic stop, and ended up with my toad fishtailing to an almost 90° angle by the time I got stopped.  No damage to the coach or toad, but the tow bar was toast. I threw away the Brake Buddy too (it had crapped out and wasn’t worth fixing). 

Turns out a car had pulled out in front of the 18 wheeler. No one was hurt, but the driver of the 18 wheeler was scared as heck. 

Unhooked the toad and went on to our destination separately. 

I too was lucky. But I will NEVER pull a toad again with out a fully functional braking system. I currently use a M&G system.  There are lots of really good ones out there other than M&G, but to pull a toad without a brake system is endangering yourself and anyone around you. 

[6Wheels]

A properly installed and adjusted supplementary braking system will reduce the distance it takes to stop.

It will prevent jackknifing and damage to the towing gear.

We all know how much a cap repair costs, so $1-2000 is a worthwhile investment in my opinion.

I used the RVi2 for towing because we only keep our vehicles 2-3 years, and we share the coach with family.  This system can be moved vehicle to vehicle.

 

[Tom Cherry]

20 hours ago, bftownes said:

I have well over 100,000 miles towing a toad.  Two Jeep Wranglers and now a GMC Terrain.  Full-timed for ten years in a new 2001 Diplomat LE.  Never used a braking system.  However, I have always made sure my tow bar was perpendicular to the street once hooked-up.  People towed toads for years and millions of miles before braking systems were invented.  Now, this is just my opinion, but, I think braking systems are a cash cow for the manufacturers and the retail outlets that sell and install them.  

Barry, 

Speaking as a Moderator and also as an Ex Corporate Safety Director and from my own experiences as well as moderating the original site for over 10 years and having read about every post for over 13 years, save when I was laid up in PT for a while….

Welcome.  Glad to have new members, especially folks with newer rigs made by REV.  This is an older site and we have folks with older rigs with aches and pains.  Having folk likes you, who will have, unfortunately, the normal aches and pains of any Class A MH due to the nature of the beast, is GREAT.  Hope that more REV owners join.

Moderators have a “fiduciary” responsibility to state or make sure that everyone understands that each of us have our own “guard rails”, we rarely intercede when someone veers off the Highway.  In effect, your statement, with all due respect… your record is great, but is not what the general consensus is.  But, unless our Grand Poohbah, David Pratt, overrules, NOT going to be deleted….just put into the proper context.  Many of our older and respected members were not as “conscientious” as the group is….so.  Yes, your 100K miles without any perceived need for the required by law in a majority of states is duly noted.  However, as one that has heard this tale, literally thousands of times…. or having interviewed an employee or read the accident investigation report and had to approve it.  That was required on any amputation of a finger or hand or whatever….  “I have run a million parts on this machine with out that  guard and never had an accident….turned my head to talk to John.  BOOM.  How long will I be out of work and will I still have my job due to loosing the fingers?” A MILLION parts sounds like a lot, but we had hand fed punch presses that an operator could run 20 pieces per minute or around 1,000 per day which is a Million in 4 years.  

Bottom LINE.  The consensus, as well as the laws, is that having an auxiliary brake with an emergency stop is required….obviously recommended.  Folks that don’t feel the need and have had no issues is strictly an “opinion” and that the group should, take it, with the full knowledge of the consequences, as that…just an opinion.

A couple of final comments from experience,  my MH miles are only 75K and I have done  personally done 3 different tow bar installs, used 3 different braking systems, and towed behind a “Gasser” but the bulk was behind the Camelot.

The more reliable….the better piece of mind.  All the reasons…and I carry a very high “Umbrella Personal Liability” policy as well as not being able to cope with injuring or killing people due to my disobeying the law or not wanting spend maybe 1% more than I had in my rig.  My first unit was a portable and the gasser Winnebago needed it BADLY as the extra 5,000 pounds was very noticeable…in fact, I could not load up the rear of the Explorer without having the tail wag the dog and feeling the impact.  I graduated to the US Gear Unified Tow Brake system for my Hummer and now have a Yukon with an M&G…WITH the emergency stop kit.

The first thing, to ensure that someone won’t have to depend on the braking systems emergency stop system is INSTALL THE MOUNTING HARDWARE PROPERLY.  Use Loctite RED on every individual nut and/or bolt.  Use a torque wrench and tighten to spec.  Over tightening with a 6 ft pipe will also do damage.  Inspect the Tow Bar annually and rebuild it of have it rebuilt every 5 years or say, 50K miles.  Prevention is the best…but also have a braking system and test it per the manufacturer’s instructions.

Always double check your tow bar each time after you hook up.  I use locks and not the draw bar pins.  We have had real life reports of idiots pulling out the pins on a rig at a rest stop or over night.  It is a crazy world out there.  If the system is electrical, then make sure the umbilical connector has good contacts.  Most systems will give you a “OK….Hooked up and communicating status light”.

There are many horror stories, real life, of cars or trucks coming loose.  The one that hit me was an H2 Hummer popping off a Marathon on US 17 S in Myrtle Beach and crossing the median and killing 3 people.  We have a time share there in sight of where that happened.  It DOES Happen!

 

[David Pratt]

Here is some food for thought in this discussion;

In 2010 a very good friend of mine who owned a 2004 Signature had a left front tire blow out. The tire was a Junkyear GY670. he was heading East bound on I-26 in S. Carolina. He crossed the medium and the West bound lanes. He hit a vehicle heading west on I-26 and the driver was killed. The Signature was totaled. His toad was a Lincoln Pick Up Truck and he did not believe in an Auxiliary Brake System. During the accident the PU climbed up the back of the coach and was heavily damaged.

He was not issued any Citation for the accident because it was the tire blowout that caused it, but during the Investigation the SC HWY Patrol issued him a Citation for Faulty Equipment because he had no Auxiliary Brake System or Breakaway Switch/Cable on the Toad. South Carolina Law and Florida Law Requires both on anything being toad that is over 3000 lbs.

To make matters worse his Insurance Company refused to pay the Claim to fix the Lincoln PU because they claimed he violated the law and the missing Safety Equipment Contributed to the accident. The insurance company only paid 80% of the value of the coach and he lost the personnel Lawsuit the family of the deceased individual filed against him. There is a lot more to this but this is the Readers Digest version. It took over four years to settle the lawsuit.

So, all I can say is in the Litigious Society we live in and if you think you are with in the Law taken these kind of Risks with you, your family and the public you might want to think twice.

An Auxiliary Brake System and Breakaway Switch for the cost of maybe a thousand dollars might have saved him Millions as the jury agreed that the lack of the Safety Equipment Contributed to the Accident.

 

[daveyjo]

I use a tow dolly and not a towbar, so my experience might be different, but I can sure tell if my dolly brakes aren't working.  Stopping is way easier and I am sure with a shorter stopping distance.  Surely you can feel the difference if you don't use aux braking when towing with a tow bar.

[frankogrly]

Let me start off by saying, I am not disagreeing with those that use a braking system for their toad. I own a 2001 Holiday Rambler which I bought new. In the owners manual on page 233, under brake systems, it states that the brake system is designed to accommodate the weight of the vehicle and towing loads. With a 30,000 lb GVW and a 10,000 lb hitch the braking system will accommodate 40,000 lbs. 

Frank O

[jacwjames]

I had thought of the consequences of not having a braking system.   But I had not thought about the ramifications of my insurance company not covering me if I did not have one installed. 

"An Auxiliary Brake System and Breakaway Switch for the cost of maybe a thousand dollars might have saved him Millions as the jury agreed that the lack of the Safety Equipment Contributed to the Accident." 

I can only imagine the anguish they went through regarding the fatality let alone the trial afterwards.

I also had been involved in Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) investigations.  They train their investigators to look for things just like the above.  I've seen them take a loader completely apart to inspect every part of a brake system and looked at the history of maintenance done to the braking system.  Not a comfortable situation for the mine manager ( I was the operations manager at the time).  We found out later that one of the mechanics they brought in to tear the loader apart was a special investigator and  tired to cozy up to our mechanics to find out as much info as they could.  In the end they could not find one problem and attributed the accident to operator error. 

So looking at this with my "Risk Mitigation" glasses, the cost of the braking system is a NO BRAINIER. 

 

[JDCrow]

12 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I had thought of the consequences of not having a braking system.   But I had not thought about the ramifications of my insurance company not covering me if I did not have one installed. 

"An Auxiliary Brake System and Breakaway Switch for the cost of maybe a thousand dollars might have saved him Millions as the jury agreed that the lack of the Safety Equipment Contributed to the Accident." 

I can only imagine the anguish they went through regarding the fatality let alone the trial afterwards.

I also had been involved in Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) investigations.  They train their investigators to look for things just like the above.  I've seen them take a loader completely apart to inspect every part of a brake system and looked at the history of maintenance done to the braking system.  Not a comfortable situation for the mine manager ( I was the operations manager at the time).  We found out later that one of the mechanics they brought in to tear the loader apart was a special investigator and  tired to cozy up to our mechanics to find out as much info as they could.  In the end they could not find one problem and attributed the accident to operator error. 

So looking at this with my "Risk Mitigation" glasses, the cost of the braking system is a NO BRAINIER. 

 

Uggg MSHA, they make OSHA look like a JV team 

42 minutes ago, frankogrly said:

Let me start off by saying, I am not disagreeing with those that use a braking system for their toad. I own a 2001 Holiday Rambler which I bought new. In the owners manual on page 233, under brake systems, it states that the brake system is designed to accommodate the weight of the vehicle and towing loads. With a 30,000 lb GVW and a 10,000 lb hitch the braking system will accommodate 40,000 lbs. 

Frank O

No offense, but I would have agreed with that 21 years ago as well.