Salesman solenoid bypass discussion

[Georgia Mike]

I have been following some discussions lately about the salesman switch and I see a lot of people say to bypass it using the jumper you get at Napa. On my Dynasty when I turn off both disconnects chassis and house I still have power inside to turn on the lights with all the touch pads and the dash radio works as well. I have to turn the salesman switch off to kill those things. So if I bypass the salesman switch those things will never be off and causing more battery drain. On my old Discovery when I turned the two disconnects off everything was dead in the Motorhome. I know that certain safety laws require that the propane and carbon monoxide monitors stay on but I don’t understand why they went to all this trouble wiring up this salesman switch. I don’t see how I can bypass it because I don’t want all this stuff on draining my batteries.

[Capt Mike]

Following!

[Ivan K]

Is it possible that the disconnect switches were replaced and miswired or simply bypassed and therefore don't do anything?

[bmulvenna@hotmail.com]

Don't you have master disconnect switches for each set of batteries?

[Georgia Mike]

Yes I have two main disconnects at the battery banks but when I turn them both off and go to the salesman switch by the entry door and turn it on all the lights will work and the dash radio, cb and I believe the ac thermostats power up from what I remember. So if I bypass the switch I will never be able to shut those items off. Does someone around the same year or model know if that’s the way theirs works or is something wired wrong? The two rear disconnects do kill everything else like the slides, steps won’t come out, refrigerator won’t power up and so on. I know Monaco wired things differently from year to year so maybe this is the way it’s supposed to be. Everything works fine I was just trying to be proactive In case the salesman switch fails.

[dchief61]

2007 Diplomat. Same setup.  Interested to see if anyone drilled down to figure this one out. Following…

[Tom Cherry]

21 hours ago, Georgia Mike said:

I have been following some discussions lately about the salesman switch and I see a lot of people say to bypass it using the jumper you get at Napa. On my Dynasty when I turn off both disconnects chassis and house I still have power inside to turn on the lights with all the touch pads and the dash radio works as well. I have to turn the salesman switch off to kill those things. So if I bypass the salesman switch those things will never be off and causing more battery drain. On my old Discovery when I turned the two disconnects off everything was dead in the Motorhome. I know that certain safety laws require that the propane and carbon monoxide monitors stay on but I don’t understand why they went to all this trouble wiring up this salesman switch. I don’t see how I can bypass it because I don’t want all this stuff on draining my batteries.

Generically, Mike

Look at your prints.  We have a file copy but that is not a high enough resolution. You need to study the prints.  It appears you have at least TWO House Solenoids, and possibly another....but blowing them up only makes the print fuzzy.  Your Manual has them.  It should be about midway back in the drawings  It is the Dyn Nav Sig Battery Cut Off Switches.  One of them feeds the main house distribution panel.

Next up....read the MANUAL.  You will find about 20 plus references to "CUT OFF"....I downloaded the 2002, since we know that your wiring is the same from the above print.  I then did a FIND on Propane and CUT OFF.  For whatever reason, there is NOT any 2003 manuals....but it is probably a safe bet that yours reads the same.

The manual plainly states that the "Battery Cutoff Switch" does NOT cut off all loads....and there are exceptions.  You need to study the prints and read the descriptions of the MAIN Battery Cut Off Switches and the Salesman's Switch to fully understand.  That will answer all of the questions you posed.

Another section also states that, I THINK, the Propane alarm does NOT get turned off.  MAY BE WRONG.  But that would a SAFETY ITEM and the purpose of the other switches is to conserve power during storage.  There are specific guidelines for when to use the main or the Salesmans switches. Turn all THREE off....then do the TEST on your Propane alarm.  My BET...it will blast.  Mine does...

Finally, and Frank McElroy might chime in here.  The number ONE "OMG"...I have lost all power....then followed up with an OPPS....Solved it" (within the last 3 days....I might add) is someone bumping the Battery Cut off Switch. NOW>>>>  NEVER, EVER assume Monaco would use the SAME switch for ALL MH.  Mine is a big Carling with a button that any GK or pooch can operate.  Your's is smaller, per the manual....so LESS likely to get hit.

BUT....the power issue is often traced to the ACCIDENTAL bumping.  THUS...on the lower food chains like mine, it is ONE solenoid (as on the DIPLOMATS....per the question).  The switch is BIG.  I can't remember if mine has an ON and OFF direction....but the LOGIC that you push it UP for ON and DOWN for OFF.

There have been some Solenoid failures....and whether a LOT or a LITTLE, some folks HAVE replaced them.  With the LOWER food chain coaches with the LESS COMPLEX systems, such as yours, the CHOICE is simple.  I actually PULLED mine out.  My wife bumped it twice and freaked out as I was out cycling with the GK....  So, I bypassed it.  Then, later on when I was doing my Electrical PM...and needed access to a component that was blocked by it.....OUT IT CAME and I hooked the house fuse cable directly to the FUSE....that was easy.

The WARNING FOR ALL.....NEVER, EVER....TURN THE SWITCH ON of OFF with a gaggle of 12 VDC items running...That will eventually burn the contacts.  The other warning.....NEVER use it daily when you go away for a few hours or treat it like a common light switch.  IT IS NOT RATED for full line current of FLA switching....nor was it to be daily as a "CONVENIENCE"...

To Summarize....and Frank might edit...

The Dynasty and UP have more complex systems.  Jumpering, unless you FULLY understand is PROBABLY not a good idea.  Frank says that when his Multiplex system gets in a funk, turning off all INTERIOR power and then OFF...wait...ON will reboot the Multiplex.

Lower Food Chain....say Camelot or Scepter on down.  The IDIOTIC big switch is a PITA for some..   Turning it OFF and then using the NAPA Jumper is a single point operation...and there is really, MHO, no real need for it.  So, I do NOT have a solenoid.  BUT, the SAME LOGIC....  DO NOT HAVE ANY INTERIOR 12 VDC FLA stuff ON....so, it is really a "OK, I turned everything OFF"....now why do I need to kill the power?  Simple, Monaco did that at the request of the SALESMEN....it was also assumed that there was no FLA loads....  BUT, nothing is bullet proof and if there were big time loads and the switch were used....YES the Solenoids fail...

I HOPE this sort of clears it up.  I learned, thanks to a discussion with Frank, and looking at some prints and reading MY manual, again and Mike's a LOT.

Funny thing....doing a little reading first....does sometimes help...

[Georgia Mike]

Thanks for the info. Now I know that the Dynasty on up is wired different then others so bypassing it isn’t a good idea. Trust me I do read a lot. I am always browsing over those electrical prints but after a while they all start to look a like 🙂

[W7BE_Bob]

My salesman switch does not turn off the refer. There were several times with everything else off the salesman switch further reduced the draw by 1A and left the refer on propane as desired.  

The salesman switch tends to get a bad reputation because it can turn off heavy loads. DC unlike AC has a much higher level of arcing that causes switch failure. Turning off obvious loads before using the salesman switch extends it's life. While this can be useful a significant number of rigs are strickly pedestal to pedestal with less interest in turning off anything. 

The chassis and house switches don't turn off all loads. I installed Blue Seas switches on both battery banks terminals to comletely disconnect all loads for storage. And for clarity the salesman switch disconnect house battery loads only and not chassis battery loads.

A jumper to disable the salesman solenoid isn't needed if the wires(s) from one side can be moved to the other side. Either way be safe, take pictures and disconnect the house battery negative terminal wires first.

[Tom Cherry]

6 minutes ago, W7BE_Bob said:

My salesman switch does not turn off the refer. There were several times with everything else off the salesman switch further reduced the draw by 1A and left the refer on propane as desired.  

The salesman switch tends to get a bad reputation because it can turn off heavy loads. DC unlike AC has a much higher level of arcing that causes switch failure. Turning off obvious loads before using the salesman switch extends it's life. While this can be useful a significant number of rigs are strickly pedestal to pedestal with less interest in turning off anything. 

The chassis and house switches don't turn off all loads. I installed Blue Seas switches on both battery banks terminals to comletely disconnect all loads for storage. And for clarity the salesman switch disconnect house battery loads only and not chassis battery loads.

A jumper to disable the salesman solenoid isn't needed if the wires(s) from one side can be moved to the other side. Either way be safe, take pictures and disconnect the house battery negative terminal wires first.

Totally agree.  If you read your manual (same as mine) and several other manuals, there are certain "KEY" or excluded items that are powered directly.  The refrigerator was one mentioned as well as the two detectors (Propane and C02)...but the Thermostat comes off the house fuse panel and that was on the Salesman's solenoid.

I took mine out....as I needed access to something beside or behind it.  Obviously, on our units, the Inverter is run through a 300A fuse and directly wired....so when you turn off the House Disconnect switch, it stays ON...or mine does....and that is what the print shows.  If you rewired yours and installed the installed the separate Blue Seas, then you did kill them all....including the parasitic drains of the ECM.  As a benefit...or perhaps "Not", you have automatically reset the Allison TCM to the default and then it "learns" your driving habits for the next 100 miles.  We had one individual at a gathering that said his Allison was sluggish and shifting erratically and "Slow".  The Allison tech drove it.  Pulled the Chassis Battery cable.  Had a cup of coffee....and they went out for a test drive.  The owner had been VERY LIGHT FOOTED.  The Allison learned and complied.  The Moral of the story to save yourself a $150 bill.  GET ON IT>>>>  Do a few full throttle starts every once and a while...and disconnect the Chassis if you have any issues...

Thanks....

12V High Current Dist TGC Rev 1..pdf

[David Pratt]

The Dynasty, Exec, Sig, Navigator and like models built in Coburg Used a Latching Relay that is activated and de-activated by the sales man switch. That is the reason they hardly ever fail. They are not a continuous duty solenoid as installed in the Coaches that were built in Elkhart.