Blue Ox Broken Tow Bar bolt questions

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, jacwjames said:

Thanks, explains a lot.   Wonder if the earlier model had problems with the nuts coming loose, hence the design change.

Time for me to take both mine apart and inspect, clean, lubricate.  

That ALSO explains why when you look at the picture there is a "mega" gap...by fastening standards...between the washer and the back or face of the yoke.  DEFINITELY something that could wreak havoc....

I would not want to be towing with it nor following or meeting the MH when or "IF" things went south....

Thanks for the update and pictures and such....

[Guest Ray Davis]

Wonder how old the tow bar is?  Not that mine looks a whole lot better but it looks like it could use some TLC  or  maybe replacing.  I wish they would but they don't last forever.

Anyway, I'm wondering what could have made the bolt break or is it not really broken and is missing. I can't see if there is a broken bolt in there or just a place for it to screw into.                                                                 

Hex-nut aka Richard Davis's picture explains a lot.   Still I wonder if those without the holes have a threaded  collar inside the tube or if they decided the plate welded flat against the sq tube was risky. So they added a little extra, and if the collar and 2 bolts is what they came up with?

Edited August 16, 2022 by Ray Davis

[4rickyg]

There is a blue ox dealer right down the road from me. The hitching post, Ocala Florida. I will run it by them, when I have time to see what they say. I will report back. Not sure how old it is it came with the coach which is a 2005?

[hex_nut]

Here is a picture of the other style of lock nut attachment on the yoke bolt.  In the picture, there is a square nut (item #2) that goes in the 2" square tube and a lock nut (item #1) to secure it in place.  I "assume" the system was redesigned to be more secure with the 2 lock bolts coming from the sides.

Richard 

[Ivan K]

37 minutes ago, hex_nut said:

Here is a picture of the other style of lock nut attachment on the yoke bolt.  In the picture, there is a square nut (item #2) that goes in the 2" square tube and a lock nut (item #1) to secure it in place.  I "assume" the system was redesigned to be more secure with the 2 lock bolts coming from the sides.

Richard 

Exactly, square nut and a locknut in mine. Personally, I'd prefere this over extra holes, both having the same intention of stopping the nut rotation. All I had to do for a rebuild was a set of new nylon washers and a bit of paint.

[birdshill123]

Looking at that tow bar it is way past it's expected life. I would guess 10 years old. If so forget repairs and buy a new unit.

[4rickyg]

Thank you, hex nut. Now I understand what the bolt does from your picture. Looks like the head of the bolt that holds the nut from spinning. There is one on each side. I would think I could replace it and be fine. But I will take it by hitching post and see what they say.

[BennieH]

I would not just replace a grade 5 bolt with a grade 8! The manufacturer used hardware that fits the engineers specifications. Using a grade 8 in place of a grade 5 will cause wear and damage on other components. The bolts are most likely designed to wear rather than the other more expensive parts of the towbar. I've rebuilt my towbar 3 times over the years. As soon as I see bolts wearing, the correct parts are ordered from the factory and installed.

A large part of my working career was in the engineering/maintenance field and I did see the damage that was caused by not using the proper hardware.

[jacwjames]

I have cleaned and lubricated my tow bar but I have not had my tow bar apart, are there any tricks to taking it apart the hitch connector portion?  Do you just use a a long socket extension to reach in the end to get to the  lock nut?  I have the time to take both them apart and replace any worn parts.

[Fasthobie16]

I’m not an engineer or en expert on fasteners so I am sorry I offered any response to this post. What I said was what I’d do if it was mine. Thanks for the criticism. 

[Ivan K]

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I have cleaned and lubricated my tow bar but I have not had my tow bar apart, are there any tricks to taking it apart the hitch connector portion?  Do you just use a a long socket extension to reach in the end to get to the  lock nut?  I have the time to take both them apart and replace any worn parts.

Exactly as you say, just a long extension. Blue Ox sells rebuild kits.

[marcbachman]

Hello Bills D Monacoers- I had to put in my .02, I have an older Ready Brute tow bar, I really don't know how durable it is. Of course I could buy a Blue Ox for cheap. but not my style. Almost all of the other members of my KS Sunflower Ramblers have Blue Ox except for the hard head that uses a car dolly for his Caddy. This post has further put me off Blue Ox since it looks like there is a distinct design problem. Or perhaps the design limit was exceeded. Hard for me to tell. Anyway, I have needed and will be forced to upgrade everything at some point when I have to send my 02 Silverado flat toad to its final rest. Pieces of it continue to sluff off as I drive, and the pieces are increasing in size. I will probably be able to stick my head through the holes in a year or two, or pop rivet some patches on. Also of course I would never do this, but what if you had some good 7014 rod and a stick welder, could you actually repair something like this, ( the Blue OX towbar ) even to get home? A friend wants to know.

Edited August 17, 2022 by marcbachman
The copy blew up when I added the picture.

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

Exactly as you say, just a long extension. Blue Ox sells rebuild kits.

Well, I got my tow bar apart finally.  Had to grind down 2 sides of a socket to get it to slide down the hitch portions.  Tried to use an impact wrench to break the 3/4" bolt loose but finally had to clamp the hitch portion to a table and used a long breaker bar and cheater bar on my ratchet, finally got it break loose and the rest of the way with the impact wrench.  Had to put the 2 small side bolts back in to remove the lock barrel to get the 3/4" bolt out. 

One thing I found when I took the hitch portion apart was that there was an inner assembly that is not on the older parts list.  Looks like it provides both additional pulling strength and it has rubber bushing in on end, may be to take jarring out of the tow bar.   This is the hole that the hitch pin goes through. 

The bolt that was missing from the OP's picture may have fallen out or it may have broken, can't tell by the pictures.  But the purpose is to hole the first nut (basically a threaded barrel) in place and prevent it from turning off the 3/4" bolt.  There is a second lock nut on the end.  I assume all of this is safety since the older one just has a 3/4" bolt and lock nut.    Attached is a picture of the pieces laying next to the hitch just in case anyone wants a visual.

I also removed the zip ties and cleaned and lubricated the the legs.

As far as the tow bar I've taken apart, I has minimal if any wear on the metal parts.  I can't tell that the bolts have worn at all.  The plastic wear washers are worn.  I have ordered a set of kit to rebuild both my tow bars.   After tearing down, cleaning, I am confident the tow bar is in good condition and see no reason to replace even though they've got some age on them. 

[birdshill123]

There have been a nber of discussions on IRV about Blue Ox. I always read them

 I am far from being an engineer. Tow Bars are under a lot of stress. When you turn a corner or pull out to pass on the freeway the tow bar has to handle that force. IMHO tow bars do mot have an infinite life. Sure you can replace some of the parts. But the bar itself maybe weak. The op did not state the age of that bar. I would throw it in the trash. That bar could break and your toad could cause an accident and kill someone. Blue Ox gets a lot of flack. But we do not know the history of a f ailed unit. Maybe an owner backed up and the wheels on the toad locked up at an   angle.aybe an owner turned too sharp. Maybe another had an inoperable toad braking system. Or no toad brake. We started with a custom made bar. Then we  had one of those folding bars. But we were towing compact cars. Finally we had our first Blue Ox. Ot was OK but if the toad was not straight unhooking was difficult. We were at Q and bought a newer model. It worked well for many years. Every time we were at Q Blue Ox did the inspection and replaced necessary parts. 2 years ago one of the bar lock/unlock levers broke on the way to Q. Blue Ox would not work on it due to age. I ordered a new one. Just another expense. No different than replacing old tires with over 75% tread. My 2 cents worth 

 

 

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

2 hours ago, marcbachman said:

Hello Bills D Monacoers- I had to put in my .02, I have an older Ready Brute tow bar, I really don't know how durable it is. Of course I could buy a Blue Ox for cheap. but not my style. Almost all of the other members of my KS Sunflower Ramblers have Blue Ox except for the hard head that uses a car dolly for his Caddy. This post has further put me off Blue Ox since it looks like there is a distinct design problem. Or perhaps the design limit was exceeded. Hard for me to tell. Anyway, I have needed and will be forced to upgrade everything at some point when I have to send my 02 Silverado flat toad to its final rest. Pieces of it continue to sluff off as I drive, and the pieces are increasing in size. I will probably be able to stick my head through the holes in a year or two, or pop rivet some patches on. Also of course I would never do this, but what if you had some good 7014 rod and a stick welder, could you actually repair something like this, ( the Blue OX towbar ) even to get home? A friend wants to know.

Thats a pretty tow bar.  I don't know anything about that brand, is it the one that pulls a sting to apply the toad brakes?  Ah, excuse me I meant to say pulls a cable.

Some guys with a welder can fix anything.  However, if they had the welder they were probably already at home.

I have heard of people welding with jumper cables and batteries.  We got batteries, so tell your friend if he can weld, yeah maybe so.  😀

 

Jim, What is the other silver looking part, appears to fit inside too.

Pondering about the round threaded piece wih the 2 bolts.  If they just wanted it to not turn, why not make it square?   The 2 bolts must serve another function too.   Maybe they serve as a backup in case the welded piece didn't hold.   Seems odd, but what else?

Edited August 17, 2022 by Ray Davis

[jacwjames]

42 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

T

Jim, What is the other silver looking part, appears to fit inside too.

Pondering about the round threaded piece wih the 2 bolts.  If they just wanted it to not turn, why not make it square?   The 2 bolts must serve another function too.   Maybe they serve as a backup in case the welded piece didn't hold.   Seems odd, but what else?

No idea why they designed this the way the did, seems complicated, I agree that a square threaded nut would have worked and then just add the lock nut behind it.  The 2 bolts are needed to be able to tighten the bolt into the round nut, no way to hold it like it is.  When it's tightened you have to leave a little slack so the it isn't to tight to allow the yoke to turn.  The bolts will also prevent the round nut from spinning off.  Lock nut is probably for safety. 

I would have like to see the thinking process behind the design change and the sign off process as it's worked it way up the corporate ladder.   Lots of head scratching and WT@#$%^ moments. 

 

As to the tow bar I took apart.  I thoroughly inspected each part looking for signs of failure, couldn't find any cracks etc.  I see no reason to replace.  

I am an engineer and have +30 years maintenance experience in heavy equipment.  Been involved with equipment inspections and failure analysis most of my career.  I am not an expert but confident in my ability to make a decision to keep the tow bars.   If I would see any signs of failure I'd scrap it in a heartbeat. 

[marcbachman]

Ray- The picture is of a new one. Mine is oh, maybe 8-9 years old. Has not been used a lot, just beat up from handling and from the first time I used it when I didn't understand the way the levers were to be used. And yes, it has the inertial braking system. I'm taking mine to the point of origin up the road from me to get their recommendation. I had one of my trailers pass me on a bridge long ago. I still remember that like a video that plays in front of my eyes. The thought of welding, maybe using current from the generator, is somewhat intriguing, but I think I'll resist that for now. I don't know, can I get 240 VAC from my generator? I'm also highly suspicious of the concept of inertial braking as interpreted/employed by the tow bar maker. Any opinions here?

15 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

Thats a pretty tow bar.  I don't know anything about that brand, is it the one that pulls a sting to apply the toad brakes?  Ah, excuse me I meant to say pulls a cable.

Some guys with a welder can fix anything.  However, if they had the welder they were probably already at home.

I have heard of people welding with jumper cables and batteries.  We got batteries, so tell your friend if he can weld, yeah maybe so.  😀

 

[Ivan K]

Besides the point but on the field welding subject, I know jeepers that carry an extra battery not just for the winch but also for emergency welding with 24 volts and a stick. We have more batteries than they do...

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, marcbachman said:

 I'm also highly suspicious of the concept of inertial braking as interpreted/employed by the tow bar maker. Any opinions here?

 

I guess in a perfect world if the tow bar was set up 100% correct the concept of braking using a cable attached to the small lever within the hitch "might" be OK. 

But in the back of my head I just see to many variables that reduce braking performance.   The cable has to worm it's way through the engine compartment, around the engine, and then up through a hole through the firewall in front of the brake pedal.  You have to allow for some slack, you will never get it tight if nothing else for being able to go around curves as the tow bar swivels. 

I see how far I have to press my brake pedal and I just don't see the small lever moving that much and with slack in the wire it takes away from the braking capability. 

[Guest Ray Davis]

4 hours ago, marcbachman said:

The thought of welding, maybe using current from the generator, is somewhat intriguing, but I think I'll resist that for now. I don't know, can I get 240 VAC from my generator? I'm also highly suspicious of the concept of inertial braking as interpreted/employed by the tow bar maker. Any opinions here?

Yeah, its not good to see your trailer pass you up.  

No 240v from our generators, however, those with the big gens 10k & 12K do have 240v capabilities ( I think ).

The welding I mentioned didn't involve the gen anyway,  just batteries.  Lots of amps avaliable in our batteries.

I'm not much of a welder, but an experienced welder supposedly can really weld with batteries,  jumper cables,   the correct rod and that's about all.  It's sort of a bush fix thing I suppose, so I'm pretty sure Mac Gyver can do it.

I used to see trailers with an inertia brake of sorts. As I recall it had a hydraulic master cylinder  attached to the tongue with brake lines running to the wheels.  Completely different system  but still uses inertia to apply a brake.

The problem with an inertia brake as I see it might be when going down a mountain.  Seems like the toad brakes might be applied all the way down.  That wouldn't be good.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Ray Davis

[Dr4Film]

10 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I guess in a perfect world if the tow bar was set up 100% correct the concept of braking using a cable attached to the small lever within the hitch "might" be OK. 

But in the back of my head I just see to many variables that reduce braking performance.   The cable has to worm it's way through the engine compartment, around the engine, and then up through a hole through the firewall in front of the brake pedal.  You have to allow for some slack, you will never get it tight if nothing else for being able to go around curves as the tow bar swivels. 

I see how far I have to press my brake pedal and I just don't see the small lever moving that much and with slack in the wire it takes away from the braking capability. 

Exactly why I use the RViBrake 3 which operates independently once it is setup which takes all of 1 minute.

Place the unit on the floor, attach the arm to the pedal, plug in the power cord and push the button three times when asked to, then finally plug in the breakaway wire unless you are using the wireless RViBrake 3 Breakaway.

[birdshill123]

We still use the no longer available US Gear Unified Tow Brake. Nothing to connect inside the toad.  Plug in the 2 wire cord to the toad and connect the bakeaway cable. IMHO the best system ever manufactured. When parts became hard to find I bought a new in the box system and 2 used as is. I have lots of spare parts.

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

We still use the no longer available US Gear Unified Tow Brake. Nothing to connect inside the toad.  Plug in the 2 wire cord to the toad and connect the bakeaway cable. IMHO the best system ever manufactured. When parts became hard to find I bought a new in the box system and 2 used as is. I have lots of spare parts.

Loved mine.  Yukon did not have a place for the Solenoid like the Hummer had.  Tough.  As long as the umbilical connections are cleaned, it is great. That was the only issue….and I took care of that.  Loved it as you do….

[birdshill123]

Yes those weatherpak connections were really not signed to be connected and disconnected frequently. I have new spare pigtails and just cut and solder to the cable. When we had a Tacoma I installed  the solenoid under the front seat.  In the Silverado it is installed under the dash between the bucket seats. Hidden by the hump storage box.

[Guest Ray Davis]

4 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

I have lots of spare parts.

 

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Loved mine.  Yukon did not have a place for the Solenoid like the Hummer had.  Tough.  As long as the umbilical connections are cleaned, it is great. That was the only issue….and I took care of that.  Loved it as you do….

Tom and now you know where to get parts.  LOL