Safe-T Steer for RR8R

[Tom Cherry]

Had to retrieve the MH yesterday as we will camp in it until we install new well pump later this week.  I drove maybe 30 miles.  I have the TRW box.  I put on the Hughes watts link in April 2018.  Van loaned me his “shed” and tweaked or barely tightened up the TRW.  It had 55 K or so. I also have the Blue Ox TruCenter….put on with less than 10K.  I have the front and rear Source sway bars.  I had very little wander as I also have the HD Source Bilstein up front.

I had not gone 50 feet down Vans wandering driveway and went YOWEEEEE. and called him.  Night and day. So after 10K or so…I still go into curves too aggressively.  It handles better than my Yukon.

I drove on a variety of roads from 55 MPH dual lane to urban.  I was concentrating on the “play”.  My wheel has none….nada.  The Watts made the most improvement.  But the TruCenter now seems more “powerful” or robust.  David Pratt had a TruCenter on his 2005 Exec. He had Koni shocks and was satisfied.  Remember, he was a professional sports car racer for a while and extremely knowledgeable.  He installed a custom Watts on his rig.  He reported the same thing.  The Watts amplified the centering of the wheel.  I have a C7 Vette with various driving modes.  The Track mode really changes the steering ratio.  Barely move it…instant response.  My Camelot feels just as tight.  No wiggle.

I remember folks giving me tips on how to steer or have good control of the “way too powerful” Roadmaster power steering.  I developed the technique of steering with my right hand and then gently keeping a downward or counterclockwise force or pressure with my left. In effect, my left hand was a “steering” stabilizer as there was wandering or you would saw back and forth on the wheel on interstates.  Josams aligned it and straightened the rear axle.  Better. But then added thevTruCenter. Less driver fatigue and less wandering.  Changed out the dead shocks and out on the sway bars and got new Bridgestone tires around 22 K.  Drastic improvements.  ND cross winds above 25 could be felt but not like before. The Watts is several hundred percent better.  I chose not to put on the rear X brace.  Now I can drive, still always keep two hands on the 2heel and use leather motorcycle gloves  to reduce the need to squeeze or claw grip the leather steering wheel.  A dream to drive.

My experience….others might differ.

[timaz996]

Some people say I have the S-series chassis and other say I have the RR8R. How can I tell for sure? My build sheet says I have the Sheppard box. I do have the Safety-T. I have replaced all bags and shocks (late 2017) and my coach drives great! I have been in 50 mph cross winds (Idaho) and it handles those. (not fun) but it stays driving straight up and down when everyone else are leaning badly. Bottom line for my I love the way my coach handles.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

You have the Roadmaster S Series Chassis, not the RR8R which is a "raised rail" chassis.  www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469133911_brc_pdf.pdf

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, Tim-AZ said:

Some people say I have the S-series chassis and other say I have the RR8R. How can I tell for sure? My build sheet says I have the Sheppard box. I do have the Safety-T. I have replaced all bags and shocks (late 2017) and my coach drives great! I have been in 50 mph cross winds (Idaho) and it handles those. (not fun) but it stays driving straight up and down when everyone else are leaning badly. Bottom line for my I love the way my coach handles.

Happiness is relative….and sometimes what seems great is not so great when you actually see an improvement.  Not gonna disparage you NH.  The Dynasty was great in those years.  But most people swap out the Shepherd box and install a Watts link and can not believe the difference.  Adding the TruCenter took out the “over powered” feel of the Roadmaster chassis.  There was a unique steering system made by a clever person.  It was “sort of” hydraulic.  It solved the wonder issues.  Then Monaco swapped or started using TRW and the difference in the feel or wander was day and night.

I don’t believe I am a professional driver, but I went through phases or made improvements and I know or think I can evaluate them.  You can ask many of the early 2000 owners for testimonials on the swap.  Van Williams was a pioneer along with others and they did slide presentations at many of the National rallies.  Their experience and the rave reviews tell it all.

I know what my rig drove like….with and without the TruCenter.  I know the same for the Source shocks….then added the sway bars.  Then…BINGO…I put on the Watts.  It was like 3 times the improvement and that much reduction in driver fatigue.  You probably, unconsciously, oversteered when in a stiff cross wind.  I paid attention to the “orientation” in ND one day.fighting it….an understatement.  I had the wheel turned at least 10-15 degrees to compensate and keep the MH straight….properly aligned and with the TruCenter.  

next time through….a few years later….with the Source upgrades.  Still oversteered a smidge and required some extra “sawing”.  

Added Watts.  Could have easily driven one hand or a few fingers.

just my experience…..

[timaz996]

I was going to puts the Watts on my coach in 2018. The cross bar in the front is already there on my coach and it looks all factory. When I contacted him in Lancaster, CA and asked about it. He said my coach didn't need it because I would have had to cut out the X or cross bar that was there. Again, my coach drives great so I have no plans on changing it. 

Tim

 

[Ivylog]

A 2000 Dynasty is on a RM8H chassis. The S series started in 2004 Dynasty and above.

[timaz996]

Thank You Dick.

[TomV48]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:40 AM, Old Dog said:

Got to agree with Vito, not a real significant improvement. It helped a little but nothing like the Company claimed it would. 

I was pleased with my improvement. Although not as much as I hoped, the bigger reason I wanted it is for stability in an emergency, primarily a blown front tire.   But yes.  In proportion, the watts was probably a more notable change.    I would do both if starting over.  I got rear Cross stabilizer and front watts.  Thinking one more watts on rear and cross bars on the front.   Gotta get the Sheppard M100 replaced first.

[Cubflyer]

On 9/6/2022 at 5:30 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Added Watts.  Could have easily driven one hand or a few fingers.

my same experience, the Watts link on the front, crossbars on the back, HUGE improvement...  IMHO, TRW steering box not needed... precise steering not required if the coach is stable on it's own.  

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, TomV48 said:

I was pleased with my improvement. Although not as much as I hoped, the bigger reason I wanted it is for stability in an emergency, primarily a blown front tire.   But yes.  In proportion, the watts was probably a more notable change.    I would do both if starting over.  I got rear Cross stabilizer and front watts.  Thinking one more watts on rear and cross bars on the front.   Gotta get the Sheppard M100 replaced first.

Based on the comments over the years from folks that really studied and made changes and did them in phases as well as some experiments, one size doth not fit all.  Sort of a compilation of what I did, others did and a lot of posting and fireside chats.

The TRW conversion is step ONE.  

There was a series of Dynasty (as well as, potentially, all higher end) newer models that had the Shepherd box.  The owners of 2007 Dynasty, at least the ones that posted and have done a lot of research, with the factory TRW box are generally satisfied and have watched the various videos and have not opted for any other improvement.  

Mike Hughes Watts kit is a boon for all.  However, there was an experiment on a 2005 Executive that resulted in marginal improvements.  The Dynasty and above, unless there have been some changes in the installation required welding and specialty brackets.  The lower food chain chassis are strictly bot on and can be done “in the driveway”.

The Saf-T-Stter with Henderson’s “solenoid” or centering adapter is virtually equivalent to the factory Blue Ox TruCenter.  Most that installed the TrCenter on the Dynasy and up or the Camelot and down love it.  Mine did reduce the “oversteering due to the over powered” power steering.  Most common comments or observers were that it reduced the constant “see sawing” that drivers did.  The old rule of thumb to steer with one hand, but pull with the other to dampen or stabilize the wheel was not as necessary with a stabilizer. That come from both types.  That was my first upgrade.

I added sway bars and heavier rind shocks and the handling as well as ride was vastly improved.

BUT, I succumbed to the WATTS.  WHY?  Very simple, the 05 Executive owner was the one that recommended the TruCenter and he has a vast background in racing and design of racing suspensions and I trust his feedback on improvements.  He reported that the “wandering” as well the “tail wagging” issues after he installed the experimental WATTS were minimal…very.  But he also reported an almost order of magnitude increase in the stabilization or dampening effect on his TruCenter.

I put on Mike’s WATTS.  As i drove the twisting driveway of the fellow member that let me use his covered pad and also tweaked my TRW box, I knew instantly if was a major upgrade.  It took less than 10 miles on the highway.  It was like adding a subwoofer to a car audio system.  
 

The net result was a much tighter wheel, thanks to eliminating the “play” in the frame to box with the Watts.  The other unexpected benefit was the reduction in my driver fatigue.  I could go further.  Now I put it on when I was 73.  I was averaging 6,000 miles and 60 nights out per year.  Do the math….we moved on!!!.

I did our last big 8,500 Mile trip from NC to Southern CA via Oklahoma Cit, Salt Lake City, Reno, Tahoe….that is a real slice of terrain.  Then to Seattle to Glacier to Teddy Roosevelt NP and traversing ND.  Third trip there.  Each time I had upgraded.  This was the ultimate.  I chose not to add rear X hardware.

bottom line…your lighter Ambassador may need more.  My Camelot has enough.  A Dynasty with a Stabilizer due to eight and design of body and chassis probably needs a stabilizer.  Add a watts….and older drivers would benefit.

It is all in the feel, personal tastes and driving habits.

Glad you are very pleased….get rid of the SHEPHERD….then decide what’s next…unless you like experimenting and tinkering…….as some do

[Hubert wells]

On 8/20/2022 at 1:54 PM, Tom Cherry said:

My comment is my experience and also a lot of research.

FIRST AND FOREMOST.  I have spent a lot of $$ on chassis and suspension upgrades.  My story and history has at least 3 or 4 members that followed the same path.  I have the Blue Ox TruCenter and Source Engineering front and rear sway bars and the larger diameter SOURCE Bilstein shocks up front and regular Source Bilstein on the rear and a Watts link.  My MH came with a TRW Steering Box .  It is about as good as you will get and drives and handles like a dream.  I tow a Yukon and have a C7 Z51 Stingray Vette.  I have over 75k in MH…65 in Camelot.  My wife says I drive more aggressively into curves and exits in the Camelot than with the Yukon.  

I have the same chassis as the OP.  SO HERE GOES. In order of best handling and best value

First…look at your build sheet to see if you have a TRW or a Shepherd box.  There are many posts on replacing the wobbly Shepherd with a TRW…INCLUDING pictures.  If the OP has a Shepherd, verify the replacement TRW and do that or have it replaced.

Install a Watts link.  I did mine.  Relatively easy.  See the posts here. Mike Hughes has a superb kit.  I did not opt for the rear X braces as I think my rear stabilizer bar is doing the same job.

You have already done shocks.  Shocks improve the ride comfort and not the “handling”.  See how it drives and wait….if you want to reduce driver fatigue….keep reading and add a stabilizer.

Add a front stabilizer.  I chose the Blue Ox.  It has an adjustable or centering control.  The Chassis specialist from one of the steering stabilizer companies was hired to help design the Blue Ox.  You need a “trim” control.  That was the advice.

After I bought mine, Hendersons in Oregon copied the Blue Ox design. The are a leading front end specialist and work on the Roadmaster chassis.  They sell the best Non Adjustable Brand, BUT HIGHLY recommend their trim or adjustment kit.  Or buy the Blue Ox.  Many chassis savvy folks put on the Blue Ox and I got several recommendations from some shops and good “drivers”.

Stop there.  Yes, the Source sway bars are GREAT.  But I think the stuff above will accomplish a whole lot more for less $$. I HAD BOTH sway bars on and it drove a heck of a lot….and I mean a LOT better after installing the Source items.  But the Watts kit made the most difference.  Maybe I don’t need the Blue Ox, but it was the first chassis upgrade.

My opinion..others might (will..LOL) differ….but you asked.

I’m planning on attending the Monaco Gathering in February, I have a 2008 Monaco diplomat 40 ft , how can I find information on the Watts link installation ? Like how long does installation take ? Is there a place close to the gathering I could have it installed maybe a day or two before the gathering or after, while I’m in Florida. Will be coming from Knoxville Tn.

Thanks , Hubert Wells 

865-604-1177

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Hubert wells said:

I’m planning on attending the Monaco Gathering in February, I have a 2008 Monaco diplomat 40 ft , how can I find information on the Watts link installation ? Like how long does installation take ? Is there a place close to the gathering I could have it installed maybe a day or two before the gathering or after, while I’m in Florida. Will be coming from Knoxville Tn.

Thanks , Hubert Wells 

865-604-1177

go to Mike Hughes site. download the instructions and read up.  

https://monacowatts.com/

I did most of the work myself on a concrete pad with a cover.  I may have used a “crawler”.  Maybe 4 total hours on it.  It is IMPORTANT to follow his instructions and “pre work” or loosen up the ball joints….Same for pregreasimg the fittings.  I think I might have used a 3/8” offset low torque air wrench.  Most was just taking my time. You DO need a good torque wrench.  You will get much better results from the TRW than the Shepherd….that is why most folks do the swap.  
 

The gearbox swap will be more “heavy duty”.  See the past posts as to how to identify, unless you have your build sheet, what you have.  

[MyronTruex]

Call Josams in Orlando. Probably too late to get things done before the gathering but worth a call,

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, myrontruex said:

Call Josams in Orlando. Probably too late to get things done before the gathering but worth a call,

 

Yes, Barry installs the NON ELECTRIC Stabilizers.  He is probably influenced by the fact that his techs are "Suspension" folks.  I wanted him to install the Blue Ox and he, reluctantly, agreed to.  BUT, I had to run all the electrical lines and have the pigtail hookup coiled up.  He would have them then install it and adjust it....using the centering device....but would not attempt any electrical mods to the cockpit.

A friend had a mega air problem and also a leveling issue.  Late last fall, he went to Josams.  I had designed a dual gage with dual alarm simple circuit.  Barry agree to let his tech "wire it up" as it was simple.  

Therefore, the Henderson's electronic (I think) centering kit....which I have read a lot of positive things about, would probably not be hooked up.....and the owner would be responsible for it.  NOW....that goes back a ways....but Barry, last fall, reluctantly let a tech splice into a power lead and then connect two switches to a chime and ground the chime.....and it was drawn up very simply....

BUT, if you don't want the centering, which i love and Henderson's is marketing for the OTHER brand, then Barry would be a good source to install the pure mechanical one...