Adding a third A/C

[Grampy OG]

15 hours ago, Chargerman said:

Ken

Thats great news. Do you think you could provide a measurement back from the first unit?

If you give me a day or two. I will need to swing down the ceiling decor ( only takes a couple of minutes ) and I will get a couple measurements from there. Currently I am not doing much roof work for health reasons. That should give you a good approximation of where to look. I think I remember the tech that did mine saying Monaco had made it obvious inside the ceiling decor or on the roof as to where a 3rd unit would be mounted. I just retuned today from 2 1/2 months on the road and I have a few things on the me-need-to-do list before I can get to the measurements. 

Ken

14 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

 Ken,   you didn't think to ask them if my 03 Windsor had bracing in the center did you?       

Sorry I did not ask. Was Monaco adding 3rd a/c units in 03 to the Windsor? I know that Dynasty, Exec, Sig had it as a factory option that is why it was marked out at build time even if the option to add the unit was not chosen. 

[Grampy OG]

15 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Grampy OG said....after adding the third AC to his 41 Exec.....

End of story the 3rd a/c made all of the difference in the world. 

IF we had an award for the understatement of the year, you would be a contender.  Assume that the 45 footers have TWO 15's and a 13.5 KBTU.  Add the BTU's and divide by 45....or O.996 K or 996 BTU/ ft.  In you case.... two 1r's or 30 divided by 41 is  0.732 or 732 BTU/ft.  if you compared a 45 to your 41, that is a 1/3 or so increase in cooling.  BUT, if you added in the 13.5 K BTU, you have 1,061 BTU/Ft or 45% increase.  THAT IS AWESOME.  I ought to do that....but haven't.  GOOD DEAL...

Thanks for sharing that...

I am not up on A/C math like you are Tom but as currently configured my coach has 3 13,500 units. I live in Phoenix and my coach is next to the house and receives ZERO shade. I regularly go out to tinker on it and I can maintain 74 degrees comfortably in the 110 Phoenix heat and at 74 degrees the units cycle so that makes me happy. 15k units would be so much the better I assume. I believe that I did not upgrade sizes because I was told that the plenum wouldn't not handle the additional air flow anyway. In '03 Monaco was only using a single plenum from front to back (at least in my coach). BTW: 3 a/c or not it takes hours to go from 110 inside the coach to 74. I usually plan ahead my tinkering and will turn the air on the night before if I am going to be tinkering in the coach. If I know that that I will be in and out of the coach for several days I leave it at 82 at night and 75 or so during the day. That is all handled automatically with my 3 MicroAir thermostats. Sorry I had to slip that in. Boy I just love those MicroAir units. 

Ken

[Chargerman]

1 hour ago, Grampy OG said:

16 hours ago, Chargerman said:

 

If you give me a day or two. I will need to swing down the ceiling decor ( only takes a couple of minutes ) and I will get a couple measurements from there.

Thank you!  We are currently on the road. I will dig in a bit also when we’re home next week. 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Grampy OG said:

I am not up on A/C math like you are Tom but as currently configured my coach has 3 13,500 units. I live in Phoenix and my coach is next to the house and receives ZERO shade. I regularly go out to tinker on it and I can maintain 74 degrees comfortably in the 110 Phoenix heat and at 74 degrees the units cycle so that makes me happy. 15k units would be so much the better I assume. I believe that I did not upgrade sizes because I was told that the plenum wouldn't not handle the additional air flow anyway. In '03 Monaco was only using a single plenum from front to back (at least in my coach). BTW: 3 a/c or not it takes hours to go from 110 inside the coach to 74. I usually plan ahead my tinkering and will turn the air on the night before if I am going to be tinkering in the coach. If I know that that I will be in and out of the coach for several days I leave it at 82 at night and 75 or so during the day. That is all handled automatically with my 3 MicroAir thermostats. Sorry I had to slip that in. Boy I just love those MicroAir units. 

Ken

FLog me.  I assumed that the Execs back then had TWO 15K units.  The three AC (tag axle...USUALLY) units that Monaco put out in the late 2000's before the Bankruptcy were TWO 15K's and a 13.5K.  So, you can redo my math or say...  I GOT PLENTY OF COOLING BTU's....LOL.

Now you comment about the Plenum DOES bring up an interesting point....and unless we get some HVAC experts or folks that know the Plenum size of their rig, then addding a 3rd unit might, from a theoretical standpoint, be an issue.  Wonder if that is why Monaco went with a smaller middle unit.

You are lucky.  I wish mine had the third AC.  Stay cool.....

[jacwjames]

I wasn't going to get involved with this thread but here goes.

Last year the rear AC started to make noise.  Previously my front had done the same thing along with other symptoms and I had changed the motor in 2015 and that fixed the problem, the motor was almost froze up and the rubber support bushings were wore out.  So I pulled the cover off the rear one, the motor seemed good but the rubber bushings were out which is what caused the noise.  But while I was working on it I decided to change the motor, well I could not find a motor anywhere, it was obsolete.  There may have been an alternative but I decided that with age of both units it was time to replace. 

In July 2021 I was in ND and temps were ~105F, running both AC's the inside temps were +85F, not comfortable so if I was going to replace I decided to got bigger.  So after checking around I bought two 15K BTU high capacity units from PPL, they were on sale and a good price.  I also upgraded the thermostat to the MIcro Air Easy touch. 

While I was waiting on the units and had the time I decided to take the time and inspect my duct work using a remote camera I bought.  I used my laptop as display, the camera came with ~15' of flexible wire harness.  I taped the camera to a long flexible piece of wood and was able to push it all the way from one end to the other repositioning the display.  I thought I might have problems since I had a mouse problem back in ~2017 while living in the coach while building our house.   I was parked in a heavily wooded area and had found signs and at one point heard mice in the ceiling. 

What I found was eye opening, I had mouse holes at both ends of the duct work plus a very large hole in the LR area.    BUT I also found a ~1/2" gap at a  duct seam that did not look like it had ever been taped close right between the kitchen and bath area.  To fix the end hole I cut a piece of styrofoam at a 45 degree angle and fitted them right at the duct grill at the front and back of the coach, IMHO I think this helped air flow since it was directed straight down the grill and reduced the turbulence.  The larger mouse hole luckily was right above one of my ceiling lights so this was a pretty easy fix when I removed the light.  The open joint was harder to fix, it was too far away from an existing duct, so I got creative and just added a new duct vent in that area.  I carefully measure and cut the hole which gave me access to fix the joint and just added a duct which looks like it was always there.  There is no way of knowing how much cooling capacity I was loosing but it had to be ALOT!!!!

I installed the two 15K BTU units was am pleased with the performance.  Haven't given them a full test in 100F weather but in TX last year temps got to 90F and one AC was easily able to keep up keeping inside temps ~75F.  Running both of them would have reduced this more but I didn't have to.  

 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by jacwjames

[Guest Ray Davis]

50 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

You are lucky.  I wish mine had the third AC.  Stay cool.....

Yeah, me too.  Now Kens post about having enough roof support has me questioning my idea of adding a 3rd A/C.

Does anyone know of someone adding a 3rd A/C to a Windsor/Camelot or lower coach?

[Grampy OG]

48 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I wasn't going to get involved with this thread but here goes.

Last year the rear AC started to make noise.  Previously my front had done the same thing along with other symptoms and I had changed the motor in 2015 and that fixed the problem, the motor was almost froze up and the rubber support bushings were wore out.  So I pulled the cover off the rear one, the motor seemed good but the rubber bushings were out which is what caused the noise.  But while I was working on it I decided to change the motor, well I could not find a motor anywhere, it was obsolete.  There may have been an alternative but I decided that with age of both units it was time to replace. 

In July 2021 I was in ND and temps were ~105F, running both AC's the inside temps were +85F, not comfortable so if I was going to replace I decided to got bigger.  So after checking around I bought two 15K BTU high capacity units from PPL, they were on sale and a good price.  I also upgraded the thermostat to the MIcro Air Easy touch. 

While I was waiting on the units and had the time I decided to take the time and inspect my duct work using a remote camera I bought.  I used my laptop as display, the camera came with ~15' of flexible wire harness.  I taped the camera to a long flexible piece of wood and was able to push it all the way from one end to the other repositioning the display.  I thought I might have problems since I had a mouse problem back in ~2017 while living in the coach while building our house.   I was parked in a heavily wooded area and had found signs and at one point heard mice in the ceiling. 

What I found was eye opening, I had mouse holes at both ends of the duct work plus a very large hole in the LR area.    BUT I also found a ~1/2" gap at a  duct seam that did not look like it had ever been taped close right between the kitchen and bath area.  To fix the end hole I cut a piece of styrofoam at a 45 degree angle and fitted them right at the duct grill at the front and back of the coach, IMHO I think this helped air flow since it was directed straight down the grill and reduced the turbulence.  The larger mouse hole luckily was right above one of my ceiling lights so this was a pretty easy fix when I removed the light.  The open joint was harder to fix, it was too far away from an existing duct, so I got creative and just added a new duct vent in that area.  I carefully measure and cut the hole which gave me access to fix the joint and just added a duct which looks like it was always there.  There is no way of knowing how much cooling capacity I was loosing but it had to be ALOT!!!!

I installed the two 15K BTU units was am pleased with the performance.  Haven't given them a full test in 100F weather but in TX last year temps got to 90F and one AC was easily able to keep up keeping inside temps ~75F.  Running both of them would have reduced this more but I didn't have to.  

 

 

Brilliant adding another vent!!! Props to you. 

 

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, Grampy OG said:

Brilliant adding another vent!!! Props to you. 

 

More like desperate times calls for desperate measures. 

One of my old bosses had a saying "Even a broken watch is right twice a day"!

[FishAR]

4 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

Yeah, me too.  Now Kens post about having enough roof support has me questioning my idea of adding a 3rd A/C.

Does anyone know of someone adding a 3rd A/C to a Windsor/Camelot or lower coach?

I didn't add any but my Camelot came with 3. At least 2 of them are heat pumps.

[Chargerman]

So I had some down time today at our destination so I did some looking. First of all, my Coach has one duct running down the center from front to back. I took down the hinged decorative cover at the front A/C and then I took off the diffusers between the front A/C to the bedroom and took pics each way at every opening. Unfortunately, there are not any visible provisions for a third A/C. Big time bummer. I haven’t given up the thought yet though and this leads me to another question. Thinking about removing a ceiling panel so I can box out the area needed to support another A/C. Pretty sure this material is glued to the roof structure. Can someone confirm this and has anyone here taken one down and reinstalled is successfully?

Edited August 24, 2022 by Chargerman

[Guest Ray Davis]

2 hours ago, FishAR said:

I didn't add any but my Camelot came with 3. At least 2 of them are heat pumps.

42ft, do you have a tag axel?  I'm not sure but the 3rd A/C seems to be limited to those coaches.

 

2 hours ago, Chargerman said:

Unfortunately, there are not any visible provisions for a third A/C. Big time bummer. I haven’t given up the thought yet though

Going by what they told Ken I bet yours is framed out for a 3rd A/C, the question is how can you be sure of the location.  Will a stud locator help?  If it's framed for air I think the framing will be metal maybe steel.  I would try a stud finder or a magnet & see if you can map out a square.

[Chargerman]

Good thought. I will try that when we are  home next week. 

[FishAR]

24 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

42ft, do you have a tag axel?  I'm not sure but the 3rd A/C seems to be limited to those coaches.

 

Going by what they told Ken I bet yours is framed out for a 3rd A/C, the question is how can you be sure of the location.  Will a stud locator help?  If it's framed for air I think the framing will be metal maybe steel.  I would try a stud finder or a magnet & see if you can map out a square.

Yes I have a tag axle.