Dish or Direct

[ward_l_johnson]

RF Mogul’s Eagle “open face” roof mounted automatic dish will work with Dish EA or WA Sats using either the old DPP or DPH LNBF’s as well as DirecTV and Shaw.  I’ve been using the Dish Network EA DPH setup on the Eagle now for a year.   Want to change providers or Dish Network Sats simply change the LNBF and download the appropriate software from RF Mogul (no charge) to a thumb drive, plug the thumb drive into the USB port on the face of the indoor controller, restart the controller, and the change is complete.   

[willbo777]

So, in any given year as we travel around, many years spending time in Maine and New England, then out to our western haunts, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and New Mexico before going back to Florida for the winter, I would need to change the LNBF and reprogram depending on where we are?  Wow.  I guess for now, especially since Direct has everything back except for ABC, we'll stick with them as much as they have gone downhill.

[ward_l_johnson]

6 hours ago, willbo777 said:

So, in any given year as we travel around, many years spending time in Maine and New England, then out to our western haunts, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and New Mexico before going back to Florida for the winter, I would need to change the LNBF and reprogram depending on where we are?  Wow.  I guess for now, especially since Direct has everything back except for ABC, we'll stick with them as much as they have gone downhill.

There is no need to change the LNBF as you move around the county.  The RF Mogul is capable of acquiring the EA or WA satellites from Maine to Washington States.  Just select the group of Sats you prefer EA or WA, install the correct LNBF and software, and then motorhome happily around the country.  We probably travel around the country as much or more than many (avg 25k miles/year for the last decade).

[willbo777]

So the RF Mogul handles Dish differently than Winegard?  How would I determine which group of satellites I would want?  Then I suppose you mean when I buy an RF Mogul let them know which LNBF I need?  Why would they have east and west arcs if both work all over the entire country?  I am totally ignorant of Dish.  I had Dish many years ago with DNS, but they broke the rules and were not able to offer it, very similar to what is happening now.  That's when I gave up on Dish and went to DirecTv.  And I absolutely don't remember anything about east and west arcs, but that was even before HD.

[ward_l_johnson]

1 hour ago, willbo777 said:

So the RF Mogul handles Dish differently than Winegard?  How would I determine which group of satellites I would want?  Then I suppose you mean when I buy an RF Mogul let them know which LNBF I need?  Why would they have east and west arcs if both work all over the entire country?  I am totally ignorant of Dish.  I had Dish many years ago with DNS, but they broke the rules and were not able to offer it, very similar to what is happening now.  That's when I gave up on Dish and went to DirecTv.  And I absolutely don't remember anything about east and west arcs, but that was even before HD.

I apologize, apparently I was incorrect in thinking you were asking for options to consider.  My sole purpose in initially responding was to provide options that some may not have been aware of.   I’m out, you’ll have to find someone else to argue with.

[amphi_sc]

I have Dish and Travl'r with the  default 3 Sats Western Arc.  At the extremes, I've received at least 1 sat on the Western coast of New Foundland and at least 1 sat in Alaska.  When way up north the dish is pretty horizontal.  In northern New Foundland it would hit the mechanical limit when skewing so sometimes set it to manual mode on one Safelite... as it looks right down the St Lawrence...  No problem receiving the 5 majors from a Sat although I seldom watch those networks.  Also have the OTA adapter for the Hopper that ties in the Batwing if I take the time to scan locals.  We seem to prefer standard movie and "cable" news channels to prime time.  Sometimes trees may block 129 so I'll view the SD version from 119.  Same if 110 is blocked.  Most of the time I will not do a "check switch" and let it think all 3 Sats are available and let it automatically switch down to SD when HD is temporarily blocked.

FWIW, YMMV, Al

[willbo777]

26 minutes ago, ward_l_johnson said:

I apologize, apparently I was incorrect in thinking you were asking for options to consider.  My sole purpose in initially responding was to provide options that some may not have been aware of.   I’m out, you’ll have to find someone else to argue with.

First of all, I am not trying to argue at all.  I am frustrated with DirecTv and trying to figure out what to do.  My Winegard Traveler is too old to be converted to Dish, so I would be looking to replace it entirely, with either a Winegard or an RF Mogul.  I am really trying to get some info.  If for whatever reason you think I am arguing I apologize.  

[Bob Nodine]

10 hours ago, willbo777 said:

First of all, I am not trying to argue at all.  I am frustrated with DirecTv and trying to figure out what to do.  My Winegard Traveler is too old to be converted to Dish, so I would be looking to replace it entirely, with either a Winegard or an RF Mogul.  I am really trying to get some info.  If for whatever reason you think I am arguing I apologize.  

Condescending responses to folks who are just trying to give you information will often silence that source of information. Most of us here on this site are just fellow motorhome owners who sometimes have personal experience we share with others.  If some or all of our experience does not fit your need then just ignore it. If you need clarification on some portion of that information just post the question and most of us will be happy to provide additional details.

You do not need to change LNB's between the Eastern and Western arc. A single open faced dish with the Western arc LNB will work in most areas. The satellite industry is a dynamic service and is difficult to keep up with. I do not know why Dish has two groups of satellites but suspect it has something to do with phasing out old equipment and standard definition. When they decided to put up newer satellites they probably choose a significantly different location for a very good reason. I do know that my local channels are not available in high definition on the Western arc but are in HD on the Eastern arc. I also know that when the Dish installer came to my house to install the equipment he installed dish antenna's with the Eastern arc LNB. The story line is that Dish wanted additional bandwidth to provide more HD channels and that resulted in the Eastern arc. If you are happy with Direct then stay there. We had Direct for over 12 years and because we are not full time and had it both at home and in the coach we were not allowed to have the east and west locals. We always used over the air for that because it was a big hassle changing our service location. Now with Dish it is quite simple to change the service location and we have done that when down in Florida. Since no one is at home to watch the locals it does not cause a problem and we just change it back before we arrive back home. If you do decide to change to Dish I would suggest getting the Eastern arc LNB.

 

[Moonwink]

The LNBs are all the same for Dish Network.  What is different between the eastern and western arc constellations is the spacing.   The western arc is at 110-119-129 degrees and the eastern arc is at 61.5-72.7-77 degrees.  The fixed dish antenna used on sticks and bricks homes for the western arc has the LNBs spaced to receive signals from satellites spaced 9 and 10 degrees apart (110-119 = 9 degrees and 119-129=10 degrees).  The  fixed antenna for the eastern arc needs different spacing for the LNBs - 11.2 degrees and 4.3 degrees apart.  When you compare the two antennas side by side you can see the difference in the way the LNBs are spaced - but the LNBs themselves are identical.  If you've got a portable antenna like my CarryOut GM1518, you can flip a couple switches to change from between the western and eastern arcs.  This antenna only has one LNB but it knows to switch positions based on the what you your receiver is tuned to.   On occasion, it's nice to have the flexibility to point your antenna in a different direction to get a clear view with no obstructions.

I don't know what the latest model portable automatic antenna Dish/Winegard is selling now but with mine, I can also flip the same switches I mentioned to use it on Direct TVs SD signals or even the Bell satellite system.   The cheaper antennas only tune the western arc Dish satellites and if that's all you need, they're great at doing that.  The cost of the more flexible antennas that tune different satellites may be double the cost of the cheaper ones.  Of course the size of the dish matters and rain fade is more of a problem on the smaller portable antennas than on a larger Traveler.  Rain fade hasn't proven to be so much of a problem that I can't live with it and I'm happy with the smaller antenna.   If money is not a concern, by all means go with the Traveler.  I don't think you can beat the portable antennas for versatility.  I bought mine used and ended up with two of the same model (it's a long story).  After I got them both working, I mounted one on the roof permanently figuring on selling the other to recoup some of my losses.  But then I remembered I live in Missouri where being assigned a campsite under the trees happens all the time.  I decided to keep the extra for those times when I couldn't use the fixed mounted dish on the roof and that's proven to be a good decision. 

For years I setup a fixed dish on a tripod longing for the day when I could afford an automatic dish.  When I finally got tired of the time and effort it took to get the correct point and elevation to tune all 3 satellites and made the plunge into this automatic dish I've been very happy that I did. 

See the attachment for expected coverage for the eastern and western Dish Network satellite arcs.  And lastly, here's a picture of my older GM1518 antenna.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Moonwink

[willbo777]

Thank you so much for the  information Moonwink!  That makes it clear.  I appreciate it.

[Bob Nodine]

That is useful information Moonwink. Thanks for posting.

 

[Bob Nodine]

When I saw Moonwinks post about the Winegard Carryout I got excited thinking there was a low profile portable  that would do the Western arc and the Eastern arc and could be mounted on the roof with removable mounts. So I started looking at the specs on the Carryout G3 and noticed it did not mention it would work on the 61.5 satellite. I sent an email to Winegard and below is their response.

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Bob,

 

For customers needing the eastern arc satellites for DISH the Pathway x2 is the proper system. It is the only system that operates on both arcs.

 

Thank You,

Winegard Customer Support

800-288-8094

***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

[Moonwink]

Granted the CarryOut is no longer in production but is still supported by Winegard if repairs are needed.  The Pathway x2 is probably their current production model.  As you can see by the pictures I posted of the CarryOut,  it is capable of tuning both the eastern arc, the western arc and a hybrid combination of 61.5 and 110/119.  So the response shown in the quote above is not entirely accurate.  I bought both of my CarryOuts used.  The first one would not work.  I opened a dialog with Winegard support via email and began troubleshooting the problem.  With the cover off, I could clearly see the antenna go through its calibration on start up and lock on the western arc as I had it set.  No signal ever got to the receiver though.  In the end, I shipped it back to Winegard where they replaced a couple components on the circuit boards (I was impressed that anyone was capable of repairing a circuit board instead of replacing it these days) and returned it to me with a new set of cables.  It works great now.  (BTW: Winegard is located in the SE corner of Iowa.)  By that time I'd already run across another CarryOut at a price I couldn't walk away from and bought it.  While the mounting on the roof is a custom homespun job which isn't easily removed, the second CarryOut was my answer to any obstructions I had to park under.   

As far as receivers, I'm not up to speed on Hoppers and Joeys which are the current receivers offered by Dish.  My favorite is the Vip211k which has an internal TV tuner capable of receiving OTA (Off the Air) local TV signals.  It has a USB port that accepts an external harddrive making it a DVR (for a one time $40 fee unless you're a good talker and can get them to "comp" it for you).   I found a couple of the Vip211k receivers on Craig's list for $30 a piece.  I use one at home at home and the other on the MH. 

[bmulvenna@hotmail.com]

On 5/10/2020 at 11:34 AM, sheena154 said:

Yes, I'm familiar with the app but with my Hopper DVR Customer Service tells me it's not available.  I believe it's only with Dish Outdoors.

Yup. That is true. Only available with dish out doors. We use chat, just send a message with current address and ask them to update locals and it is completed in minutes.

[dandick66]

This topic has covered a lot of info, but I want to add a few things based on my experiences.

I had Directv in my house for many years, but they kept raising prices and I switched to a Dish.  I am very happy with Dish.

I had the Pathway X2 with my old motorhome.  I kept it when I sold the motorhome. When I got my 2012 Diplomat it had the Traveler.  As others have mentioned, the Traveler will work on both the Western and Eastern arc satellites.  To be clear, the Western arc is the default for the Traveler.  You just hit the button and it will attempt to acquire all 3 of the Western arc satellites.  To use the Eastern arc, you have to put the controller in manual search mode and it will only look for and find the 61.5 satellite.  As a side note, I read somewhere that you can find the 72 or 77, but it’s really tricky so I never tried it.    I live in Virginia and the Western arc satellites visibility is pretty good here, but the further North I go, the worse it gets.  In NY, when the dish is trying to find the 129 satellite, it’s pretty well guaranteed that I will be aiming at trees or hills.  
 

The 61.5 satellite has pretty much everything I need for viewing.  Here is a link to the Eastern arc programming. http://uplink.jameslong.name/easternarc.html
 

Two years ago I went to use the Traveler and after a few minutes I got an azimuth motor error.  I went out and looked and the antenna was in zenith (looked like a bird bath).  I had to go up on the roof and manually stow the antenna.  I grabbed the Pathway X2 and was back in business.  I contacted Winegard and tried to get some support so I could fix it myself, but that was a non starter.  They have a flat rate repair charge of $350, so I bit the bullet and sent it in.  The repair turnaround was pretty quick.  I’ve decided that if the Traveler fails again I will not pay to have it repaired and will just use the Pathway X2.  I understand some people don’t want a portable antenna, but I guarantee that at some time the Traveler won’t be able to find the satellites because of blockage or failure.  Then you’ll be glad you have the Pathway.  They can be found used at a reasonable price.

Dan D

2012 Diplomat 43DFT

[Moonwink]

I got off a lot easier sending Winegard my CarryOut.  They only wanted $70 to troubleshoot it in their shop - after I shipped it to them freight pre-paid.   The cost went to about $170 after they made the repairs and included a new set  of (power and coax) cables for $50, repairs to the circuit board and return shipping.

Before I sent my antenna back to them they helped me troubleshoot the problem and after many emails back and forth, it was pretty clear where the problem was.  One of the circuit boards was malfunctioning.  I tried repeatedly to buy a new circuit board  through them which would have been easy to replace but they absolutely refused.  I told them I didn't like their terms where I had no idea of the total cost of repair before sending it to them.  They would not give me an estimate of the total cost.  They told me that if I sent it to them and refused the cost of repairing and, they'd dispose of it for me.  Living about 150 miles downstream from their plant I offered to drive it up to them but they refused to accept the dish from anyone but a licensed carrier.  When I asked how much to ship it via UPS, I was told it would be about $75 at a USP store.  While in the Post Office a few minutes later, I asked how much to ship the same size and weight package and was told it would be about $27 for two day Priority delivery.   I think you can figure out how I sent it to them.  I had to buy a 24" cube cardboard box to ship it in (well padded).  When it came back, it was in a box that measured 23"x23"x17" and the cost of shipping was only $17 this time (size matters).  If you ever need to ship an antenna to them, remember that size - save the box it comes in if you can.

[Fred L]

I switched to Dish a few years ago and wish I did it sooner. For us we were only using the dish a couple times a year and always had a new connection problem with Direct. It seems Dish takes a little longer to connect but not a problem. I agree that changing to locals was a pain because I was calling in every time. Last year the tech sent me a system to change it myself. It took a couple of times to get it down it's really easy. See below;

 Here's how you can change your local channels from your phone:

1. Get the MyDISH app at the App Store or Google Play Store.
2. Enter/Create your Online ID to log in to the app
3. Open the Services tab
4. Select Local Channels in the DISH Outdoors section
5. Click the Manage Locals button
6. Follow the step by step instructions on the screen

[Moonwink]

The official policy of Dish as I understand it is that you have to be a mobile user (Dish Outdoors customer) to be able to switch locals yourself using the app.  If you're account shows you've got a "home" address, and you're using a second receiver in your RV like I am, I was told they couldn't allow me to switch locals on my own.  After calling to switch locals every time I moved winter before last, I guess they got tired of hearing from me and granted me that privilege so that now I can switch locals on my own using the app without contacting them.   

Off Topic - good to know (my receiver is a Vip211k with built-in OTA tuner):
My home locals come from the St Louis area ($12/month).  I was shocked to see a $12/month additional charge (for taxes) imposed when I switched to Miami's locals last winter.  Just mentioning that so readers are aware that charges for locals vary depending on the local taxes.  Dish is only passing on those charges.  Here at home, I've got an OTA antenna hoping to replace my need for locals.  I'm almost there.  There are 37 channels available OTA in my area.  Dish only carries 9 local channels.  The extra channels I get OTA are subchannels of the 9 broadcasters Dish carries.  There's no way Dish could carry all the subchannels for every area around the country so putting up an OTA antenna is the only way to get them.  Often the rooftop RV antenna isn't good enough to bring all the available channels in or I wouldn't need to get them through Dish. 

The last couple of years I haven't had to deal with any offshore agents speaking sort of English and I really appreciate that!  I could tell in years passed that whoever I was talking to had never seen or used a system like Dish and were just following the instructions on their screen to attempt to handle the reason I called.   I hated to call.  Simple things like re-authorization were painful.  I'm so very happy to be able to do my own re-authorizing and switching locals now with the app! 

[Bob Nodine]

We have Dish in the stick house and the motorhome so are not able to use the app to change locals but find it easy to change locals by opening a chat and pasting a text file with the new service address.  Here is an example:

***************************************************************************

I need you to change my “Service Address” only.

My Billing address remains the same.

Receiver # R195xxxxxxx-47

NEW SERVICE ADDRESS

1991 xxxxxxxxxxxx Dr.
Clermont, FL 34714

Do NOT change my billing address, It remains the same at:

9656 xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Knoxville, TN 377xx

Thank you.
****************************************************************************

[Moonwink]

Good point Bob.  I too found it necessary to stress that my BILLING ADDRESS SHOULD NOT CHANGE - that I only wanted to UPDATE MY SERVICE ADDRESS when switching locals.  The untrained first level agents sometimes aren't as sharp as they ought to be so always ask to make sure they understand what you want done - and no more. 

[blahargoue]

Did Dish every get HBO programming back?  I looked into it a couple of months ago and was told by a rep that they didn't offer HBO on their system.  They did say that I could stream HBO if I wanted but sometimes that's not an option.  My wife is hooked on HBO so it was a deal breaker.

 

Bruce LaHargoue

[rpasetto]

I found out that it' possible to convert most DirecTV Traveler antennas to Dish.  Winegard's info on doing the conversion is good, as is their online tech support.  It took about 2 hours to do the conversion on our new-to-us 05 Sig.   That includes hooking up and activating my receiver as well as carrying the DirecTV LNB and related parts to my garage. 

By the way, I now have  the "kit" to convert back to DTV, which I don't think I will any time soon.  If someone has Winegard  DirecTV Traveler that was converted to Dish and wants to convert it back, let me know by PM.  (Winegard says it is not possible to convert a Traveler that was originally a dish model to DTV with these parts.)

UPDATE:

Did the conversion to DISH last week and tested the Travler.  Went thru its power down and after it was stowed, started up and it found the DISH satellites OK.   Reception was great.

Yesterday I powered down and got an "EL Motor Stall" message.   Went thru the manual and found info on doing a reset; after that I was getting "AZ Motor Stall".  Called Winegard and the short version is that the Traveler is gone.  They do not have replacement parts because it is "too old" and offered a "refurbished" Traveler at about half the price and  half the warranty of a new one.  Thinking of other options.

I was able to manually stow the Travler... wondering if it's worth trying another power on to see if the problem went away.

Rick P.  [not happy with Winegard]

Edited July 29, 2020 by rpasetto
updated

[Eric M]

with research and the Wally from Dish is a much easier option for a single tv system in an RV. i stand corrected. 

[Moonwink]

Here's a map showing the approximate coverage of Dish Network's Satellites.
https://www.kvh.com/support/satellite-coverage-maps/tracvision-marine/north-america---marine-coverage/united-states-and-latin-american-coverage---dish-network

There is no difference in the LNBs for the eastern or western arc satellites.  The only thing that changes is the spacing between the satellites and because of that difference, there is a difference in the spacing between the LNB mounting on the dish antenna.

The map shows that the western arc is viewable all across the U.S. except for the northeast corner.  That doesn't mean you can't get a signal from the western satellites at all but it will be a lot weaker in that area and probably closer to the horizon. 

Western Arc - Satellites: 110, 119, 129 (on the left)
Legacy Eastern Arc - Satellites: 110, 119, 61.5 (in the middle)
Western/Legacy Eastern Arc Overlap - Satellites: 110, 119, 129	(on the right)

[Bob Nodine]

One thing to keep in mind when talking about the Western or Eastern Dish satellites is your local stations. Although the Western satellites are visible for most of the US our local channels are in SD on the Western arc. To receive HD for our locals we must be tuned to the 61.5 satellite.