Cummins ISC 350 swapped out for ISL 400

[Ken Thompson]

On 9/14/2022 at 7:00 PM, Ivan K said:

On this point, Jake is most efficient at high RPM, therefore the ECM is programmed to downshift to a chosen gear as long as the road speed safely allows it without over revving. It is a choice to make if driving certain descents again and again. Even with all that I have to stab the brakes on a steep long downgrade. In my case it is 4th gear but is easily changeable to accommodate any axle gear and preferred road speed. It has very little effect at low RPM and there is also a low MPH speed setting, all the way to zero, where the Jake disengages but I can manually downshift to keep the RPM high until almost at stop if I wanted to.

In my search for a suitable engine, with the chassis wiring only working for the CM554 ECM unit, I’m still limited. The next newer ECM (CM850) is way different as far as what the pins do. After searching for many hours, it looks like the CM554 only works on the engines using the CAPS fuel system. When they started the common rail, they use the CM850. I know the ISL 370 and 400 can be cranked up to 1200 ft. lbs. of torque. In looking at the Cummins brochure, some of the ISL 330’s can be turned up to 1200 ft. lbs. as well. Does anyone know which years can and can’t? I have found a couple of 2004, 2005, and 2006 engines that are CAPS 330 hp, but I need to get 1200 ft. lbs. out of them, as well as have the 2 stage jake. Will the CM554 control the newer common rail fuel system? If it will and can be cranked up to 1200, it would open up more options. 

On 9/14/2022 at 11:36 PM, Ken Thompson said:

Hey, no worries. I enjoy new knowledge. Especially when it’s free. 

I’ve heard a lot of guys have it shift to 5th so it isn’t so abrupt. Then manually go to 4th if needed. I suppose it depends on gear ratio.

[Dr4Film]

I would try to avoid any CAPS fuel system and stick with a common rail fuel delivery system.

The CAPS, if it fails, is very expensive to replace. Plus lots of labor to R&R.

JMHO

Edited September 17, 2022 by Dr4Film

[Ken Thompson]

13 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

I would try to avoid any CAPS fuel system and stick with a common rail fuel delivery system.

The CAPS, if it fails, is very expensive to replace. Plus lots of labor to R&R.

JMHO

I would like to go to the common rail, but having to stick with the CM554 ECM, I think I’m kinda stuck. I have the CAPS now on my ISC. I have already added the Airdog fuel pump to eliminate the CAPP delivery problem, somI don’t think I will have that failure.

[JDCrow]

20 minutes ago, Ken Thompson said:

I would like to go to the common rail, but having to stick with the CM554 ECM, I think I’m kinda stuck. I have the CAPS now on my ISC. I have already added the Airdog fuel pump to eliminate the CAPP delivery problem, somI don’t think I will have that failure.

Yeah I don’t fear the Capps. It looks like a lot of suppliers of reman pumps are getting them out of china. You can jump on alibaba and get one direct for $1800 these days. 
 

But it’s seems that it’s general consensus that fuel delivery is key, and you Have that solved 

Edited September 17, 2022 by JDCrow
Spelling

[Ken Thompson]

12 minutes ago, JDCrow said:

Yeah I don’t fear the Capps. It looks like a lot of suppliers of reman pumps are getting them out of china. You can jump on alibaba and get one direct for $1800 these days. 
 

But it’s seems that it’s general consensus that fuel delivery is key, and you I’ve that solved 

Yeah, the FASS and Airdog are very comparable, since they were both created by the same people who spilt a while back. The Airdog has adjustable pressure is the only difference I noticed.

[JDCrow]

Will a commercial engine fit your application? 
 

There a few 330 ISL online. Not sure if a software bump takes them to 400? 
 

any pics of your coach? Super intrigued as we are close in year and length, models diff 

Edited September 17, 2022 by JDCrow

[Frank McElroy]

On 9/16/2022 at 4:38 PM, Ken Thompson said:

Since the older ISL with the CM554 is near impossible to find, just wondering, why I can't take any year ISL 8.8 or 8.9 engine and use my bolt on components, like the exhaust, intake, ECM, etc.? Since the main block is the same. Am I just an idiot?

You will not be able to use your old ECM.  These are engine specific.  Any used engine should already come with an ECM with a software serial number matching the engine.

[Ken Thompson]

25 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

You will not be able to use your old ECM.  These are engine specific.  Any used engine should already come with an ECM with a software serial number matching the engine.

Yup, they can just download my vehicle info from mine and put it on the new ECM. I’ve been listening.

[Tom Cherry]

Check out the last post on the above.  Canadian Source?

All I know is what I read....BUT....maybe helpful

OR if anyone can help on the other thread, please chime in.

[Ken Thompson]

18 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Check out the last post on the above.  Canadian Source?

All I know is what I read....BUT....maybe helpful

OR if anyone can help on the other thread, please chime in.

I have not. I purchased a set of shocks for my SxS from Canada. It took forever to get thru customs. You would think I was trying to ship drugs. It was multiple calls and background checks. I have currently found another ISL400 in Kentucky with 70k-80k miles on it. I am waiting for the higher powers of Cummins to say that it will work. With the help of Frank and quick serve,  I have already determined that it will be a direct swap. The only thing that will have to be changes is the wiring from the old worthless pacbrake to the newer, and more useful 2 stage jake brake. Like most car/truck dealers, they don’t want to do anything but replace like for like parts. Since the engine has to go out the bottom, it limits who can do it. I am still determined to get this done with the bigger and better ISL. Thanks for your help.

[96 EVO]

26 minutes ago, Ken Thompson said:

  The only thing that will have to be changes is the wiring from the old worthless pacbrake to the newer, and more useful 2 stage jake brake.  

Don't be surprised if that harness is already run to your DS armrest control panel.

It is on my coach.

[Ken Thompson]

3 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Don't be surprised if that harness is already run to your DS armrest control panel.

It is on my coach.

That’s what I have heard. I just need to find out where it is in the wiring harness back by the engine.

[96 EVO]

8 minutes ago, Ken Thompson said:

That’s what I have heard. I just need to find out where it is in the wiring harness back by the engine.

That, I don't know.

I'd first look for the unused 4 pin connector in the armrest. If you find that, you could start searching the engine compartment.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

There is a business called Diesel Recon located in Memphis, TN.  They sell rebuilt Cummins engines.  I would spring for one of their rebuilt engines .  That way you will not be at risk for the unknown issues of another engine.  

[Ken Thompson]

I finally had a very good day with my ISC/ISL swap. I went and picked up the old girl today. They swapped the oil pressure sending units from the ISL and ISC. No more low oil light. The gauge was always showing 120 psi until I took it, it read 62 psi all the way home!👍🏻 Probably a bad gauge. Going up hills it never shifted down. It stayed in 6th gear and only dropped to 1500 rpm. True, these weren’t big hills, but was enough to get a feel for how it runs. Jakes worked good, and only shifted down to 5th , not 4th.  The total cost including the engine, coach towing, and installation ended up just under $32k. OUCH!  When the shop got the new used engine we went over everything  he thought we should address. I took all of his suggestions. He replaced the front and rear main seals, air compressor line seals, belt tensioner, all new belts and hoses. The steel coolant pipes were looking bad, so we replaced those as well. New complete 304 stainless steel exhaust with Stainless steel muffler. Since all of the heater hoses are 22 years old, and near impossible to replace them all the way to the front, they replaced as much as they could. They also put ball valves on them, so If I have a leaks, I can just shut them off and continue. Now that I have it back, I can finish the air seat modification, and get my front power blinds working again. As we all know, there’s always the next project.
 

I want to thank everyone for all of their help in this huge undertaking, especially Frank McElroy. Frank has been a great resource , and knows  everything about these old coaches. I honestly don’t know how he can remember so much information. Whenever I had a question, or problem I couldn’t figure out, Frank had the answer. 
HAPPY TRAILS TO ALL!

[Frank McElroy]

Thank you for the kind words.  This is the first ever ISC / iSL engine swap that I can recall seeing on our forum and it worked - congratulations. 

In helping you out I actually learned a few things about the differences between ISL CM engine upgrades over the years from the first versions to today.  These engine have come a long way compared to the early versions.

 

 

[jacwjames]

Glad you got it up and running.  Considering the amount of work the price seems reasonable. 

Does this version of ISL have the lift pump that can go bad???   There is a technical service bulletin that has the SN range. 

[Ken Thompson]

Yes, I think all of the CAPS fuel systems are prone to that happening. I took care of that a couple of years ago when I was running the ISC engine. After reading how much they cost to replace, I figured it was a lot cheaper to prevent the problem from happening.  There are 2 options that I know of, FASS and Airdog. I went with the Airdog. I think at the time it was a little bit cheaper and the pressure was adjustable. They are both comparable.

[Ken Thompson]

1 hour ago, Frank McElroy said:

Thank you for the kind words.  This is the first ever ISC / iSL engine swap that I can recall seeing on our forum and it worked - congratulations. 

In helping you out I actually learned a few things about the differences between ISL CM engine upgrades over the years from the first versions to today.  These engine have come a long way compared to the early versions.

 

 

In hindsight, I'm glad I went with the ISL that uses the same CM554 ECM unit. That saved a lot of the cross over issues with the wiring. I know if I had you as a neighbor, you could have rewired it to work with the newer common rail system, but when I was having a hard time finding a newer common rail motor, and a shop willing to take on the task, finding one with the same CM554 was the easiest. If asked if I would do the same thing again, I would say yes. The added torque and 2 stage jake brakes will make going up and down the big mountains out here in the west a lot easier and safer. Even though the cost was more than I figured on, the shop that did it was very honest, knowledgeable, and did everything up to my standards, which are very high. Even though they are mainly a truck repair shop, I would still highly recommend them for all diesel motorhome work.

Hope you all have a safe and happy holiday season with family and friends!

[jacwjames]

Where did you source the engine from??   Did it have any guarantee?

What shop did you use.

 

 

 

[Ken Thompson]

Engine came from Visone RV in Kentucky. Came with 30 day warranty, which I found to be about all they will give on a used engine. You will see JJ Rebuilders in Florida with ads all over the internet. I talked to them numerous times. They were very rude on the phone and would never give a straight answer. As far as a shop, you won't find any Cummins shop to do it. They will only replace the engine with the same model and output. Their shop rate was about $30 more per hour as well. I had Trisand Truck repair in Eugene Oregon do the work. It was a couple hour drive from home, but well worth it. As I have stated previously, they had enough trust in my mechanical ability and trust that I wouldn't get hurt in their shop to let me change the stator in the torque converter and fabricate the new exhaust system. The shop foreman told me that I was one of the only people he has ever let do that. It is a great family-owned business that has been around for over 50 years. Those are hard to find.

[jacwjames]

OK, Thanks

I actually live ~125 miles from Visione and have been there a couple times.  Last time I visited (pre covid) they actually were installing an engine in an RV. 

[Ken Thompson]

I can't believe how big the place is! Buckey the engine sales guy was honest, upfront, and did what he promised. While looking for an engine, I had another place tell me they guy I needed to talk to was on the phone and they would have him call me back in a few days! I asked, a few days? They said yeah. I guess that's the customer service we are having to tolerate these days.