Cold weather camping 2002 Monaco

[throgmartin]

The coldest I have ever stayed in my coach was 15 degrees. It was by accident that I got caught in those temps. The temp was not predicted to get that low. I took a trouble light with a metal deflector and hung it in my wet bay. No problems and nothing froze. I fixed any issues of possible freezing by heading to warmer temps the next day.

We should all be grateful because Monaco did a good job of insulating our coaches - wall's, ceilings and dual pane windows. You should see some of the other brands and the way they are insulated - very poor to say the least. In a nutshell the one thing I found that works the best to prevent freezing of pipes, etc. is avoid cold climates. I am a veteran of 42 winters in Michigan.................... Cold weather sucks............... Strangely enough, when I retired the first time I developed a terrible allergy to snow.  I moved to Florida. I never wanted to hold a snow shovel in my hands again. 🙂

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:39 AM, Tom Cherry said:

Lots of good comments and advice.  I’d add two.

https://www.monacoers.org/files/file/71-cargo-heater-repair/

The above is SERVICE or BAY HEATER HOW TO “Fix” that Frank McElroy, with a tiny bit of assistance from me, developing.  Read it.  It is complete with details.  To date, we have had no reports of issues.  Look at the dates.  Yours may be original before the Lawyers made the Vendor redesign and make them useless.

Agree on keeping the “Box” well heated.  It will radiate heat dowm.

The other trick, which I use is to run a 120 VAC extension cord into the wet bay.  Purchase a “pump saver” thermostat.  It is a plug in unit that comes on below 40 dF or so.  Use a trouble light with a 60 - 100 WATT….INCANDESCENT.  the other option is to use two sockets and hang of suspend so the don’t touch or over heat something and that will radiate a lot of heat in the wet bay.  A metal trouble lamp is a great heat sink.

 

I would Never use a 120vac light bulb in the wet bay over 25 watts because in close places a higher watt bulb can generate enough heat to cause a fire.  

[cbr046]

@Tom Cherry, @Frank McElroy great having that background information.

I replaced the "one shot" LOL with a 20A / 184C fuse (same as in Frank's article) and soon after, while it was still cold, it failed . . . er, worked.  The fuse blew but not sure if it was current or temperature.  That's when I did my "re-design" by splitting the heating elements.  I don't have a meter that will measure over 10A and, sadly, trusted the "300W specification". 

My snap disc is actually mounted to an aluminum frame rail, not free hanging.  That slows down the process but should be ok. 

I've yet to test the re-design in cold weather, but did replace the in-switch System Heat light so I know when the elements actually turn on . . . . or at least the trigger is on. 

Tom, thanks for "taking one for the team" with the chatty lady.  Very informative.  There's probably a lot of those monkey-see monkey-do companies out there, more than we could ever imagine.

- bob

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, cbr046 said:

@Tom Cherry, @Frank McElroy great having that background information.

I replaced the "one shot" LOL with a 20A / 184C fuse (same as in Frank's article) and soon after, while it was still cold, it failed . . . er, worked.  The fuse blew but not sure if it was current or temperature.  That's when I did my "re-design" by splitting the heating elements.  I don't have a meter that will measure over 10A and, sadly, trusted the "300W specification". 

My snap disc is actually mounted to an aluminum frame rail, not free hanging.  That slows down the process but should be ok. 

I've yet to test the re-design in cold weather, but did replace the in-switch System Heat light so I know when the elements actually turn on . . . . or at least the trigger is on. 

Tom, thanks for "taking one for the team" with the chatty lady.  Very informative.  There's probably a lot of those monkey-see monkey-do companies out there, more than we could ever imagine.

- bob

 

Well, as they say, isn’t that interesting.  So far we have not seen any failures, but that was a long time ago.  I always let the folks on the line talk.  They often know more than the designers….or we find out that our Operator Instruction Sheets were not written at the proper level of comprehension.  Fascinating that your initial fix failed.  BUT, since it did, then your solution seems logical.  Need to ponder on that a bit.

But the main thing is folks can benefit from what you did as well as our earlier solution.  
 

Bottom line, other than, most likely, ANOTHER internal component failed, most likely the thermostat (memory) that kept the heater from running away, and presumably that is what caused the original failure that brought in the folks with JD’s…and since I funded a BS-IE….WHICH was never used as my son wanted to have  “Esquire” after his name or be addressed in correspondence that way, I can tactfully comment that many litigated fixes are often not totally successful….NORCOLD comes to mind.  So now folks have the benefit if why the factory fix was inadequate as well as two different repair techniques.

Thanks.

 

[Tom Cherry]

BOB talked to Frank.  The one thing that we may update is the “crimping”.  Bob, I believe, used a pliers type.  Frank also did that, but went back with a Rathetting crimper the second time.  I can’t recall if I used my Ratcheting hand crimper or an appropriately sized pair of locking or “Vise Grips”.  Using a pair of adjustable pliers like “Channel Locks” will not properly seat or compress the Ferrell.  However, if you use the Locking Pliers, you can get the mechanical advantage by tightening just to touching and then squeezing.  Maybe do that twice…but the compound leverage of a ratcheting pliers is best.

Good Luck.  

[cbr046]

36 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Bob, I believe, used a pliers type. 

Vice grips, and not the needle nose type in Frank's article but very large vice grips with short jaws for leverage (could barely get the jaws in place).  The ferrules rated for this temp are thicker than normal and are TOUGH to crimp!  Be sure to crimp on the long edge so the "crimper" pulls the ferrule down on the wire pair.  Just squishing the ferrule is not your friend.

Ratcheting crimpers would be the ticket.  Very STRONG ratcheting crimpers!

- bob

Edited October 14, 2022 by cbr046

[Frank McElroy]

3 hours ago, cbr046 said:

Vice grips, and not the needle nose type in Frank's article but very large vice grips with short jaws for leverage (could barely get the jaws in place).  The ferrules rated for this temp are thicker than normal and are TOUGH to crimp!  Be sure to crimp on the long edge so the "crimper" pulls the ferrule down on the wire pair.  Just squishing the ferrule is not your friend.

Ratcheting crimpers would be the ticket.  Very STRONG ratcheting crimpers!

- bob

The picture also shows a ratcheting style crimper and the text recommended them.  Having a weak crimp will cause the joint to get hot and the thermal fuse will fail.  That happened to me in my first attempt.  When using the ratcheting crimper on the second attempt, it worked.  The tools and the heater repair pictures were taken by Tom when he did his repair (Tom was also an author).  He used those long needle nose pliers to hold wires in place while crimping with the ratcheting crimper. 

The best way to crimp these joints is with a hydraulic crimper like what was done on the original assembly.  This would give the tightest connection along the full length of the crimp.  At that time I didn't have one but now I do.

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, cbr046 said:

Vice grips, and not the needle nose type in Frank's article but very large vice grips with short jaws for leverage (could barely get the jaws in place).  The ferrules rated for this temp are thicker than normal and are TOUGH to crimp!  Be sure to crimp on the long edge so the "crimper" pulls the ferrule down on the wire pair.  Just squishing the ferrule is not your friend.

Ratcheting crimpers would be the ticket.  Very STRONG ratcheting crimpers!

- bob

Was going to post this tomorrow,  DW let me have a break from our “binge watching” of NCIS.  Blow up the picture.  I used my mechanical, not hydraulic, ratcheting crimper.  These are specially made and have interchangeable dies for other crimps.  My company sold these.  The needle nose “VISE Grips” are classified as locking pliers….we made those.  If you look at the picture, I crimped the Ferrell with the crimper first to the arc welded lead on the element.  Then, I joined the power lead to the fuse.  In order to get a good crimp, I wanted the fuse lead and the power lead to be fully seated in the Ferrell.  Then I used the needle noses locking pliers like a pair of locking forceps so I had a third hand.  Then I crimped the Ferrell.  

As I said, our founder didn’t like that much details, but that was how it was done.

Hope between Frank’s comments and mine, that clear it up.  We probably will revise to ensure a good crimp.  Notice the full length factory crimp on the other element lead, which is also arc welded.

Thanks,

[BigNick]

Refrigerator icemaker valve.