Dr4Film Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 Tom, I am not experiencing any abrupt transmission down shifting when using the engine brake. To reiterate what I am experiencing, if the speed of my coach is 64 mph or higher then the engine brake is not so effective as it is when the speed of the coach is at 63 mph or lower. If I happen to be traveling down a grade at a speed higher than 63 I don't feel much of a speed change even with the engine brake set to high. However, once the speed of the coach reaches 63 mph there is a VERY definite change in the amount of braking at the high setting plus I can hear a change in the sound of the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Dr4Film said: Tom, I am not experiencing any abrupt transmission down shifting when using the engine brake. To reiterate what I am experiencing, if the speed of my coach is 64 mph or higher then the engine brake is not so effective as it is when the speed of the coach is at 63 mph or lower. If I happen to be traveling down a grade at a speed higher than 63 I don't feel much of a speed change even with the engine brake set to high. However, once the speed of the coach reaches 63 mph there is a VERY definite change in the amount of braking at the high setting plus I can hear a change in the sound of the engine. You experience the most engine braking at high engine rpm and at speeds when the transmission can downshift without over revving the engine. Once the transmission can downshift below about 62 is when you can really notice the engine braking. That's all normal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Dr4Film said: Tom, I am gathering from some members posts here that there Monaco coaches with ISL-400 engines that have only an Exhaust Brake and not a 2-stage Engine brake? Is that correct? Yes. Reread my post. The ISL engines in the Dynasty and above had the 2 stage Jacob’s brake that is installed as part of the “head”. There are several topics on this and you can do a search for them. There were some that were the PRE EGR/Regen/DPF configuration that I THINK also had the Jacob’s brake. I can’t say for certain what type of exhaust brake they had, in conjugation with or as an additional deceleration device. NOW it gets tricky. Cummins started supplying the VGT which was then standard of the ISL and MAYBE…the ISB. I DO a know that the Camelots and Scepters had the VGT at least in 2007, which is the year that the EGR/Reegn/DPF was added. BUT, those engines were NOT built by Cummins with the Jacob’s Head Compression brake. Again, it was still a standard feature on the Dynasty and up. May have been a special “dealer wants this” option for ordering….but scarce. IF a 2009 or 2010 Camelot or Scepter has the 2 stage Jacob’s brake, it was because Monaco was building out that “chassis” but did not have the stock, Non Jacob’s Brake engines. So….add $2900 to the options list and you got a Dynasty engine. Hope this explains it better….for the record, it may be less confusing to call the Jacob’s by its name or a Compression brake. NOW…Jacob’s DOES advertise that any 2007 ISL (EGR/DPF) engine can be upgraded and a “same as .Cummins factory” compression brake added. In addition to the “head and valve adjustment” mechanical issues, there is more wiring required and reprogramming of the ECM. Cost looks like if you bought a new “kit”, you would be out some $4500 and maybe $1500 for labor and .Cummins ECM programming changes. So, my VGT, since I drive mostly on the east coast, will suffice…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdw12345 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Fwiw, I believe my 05 Dynasty with an ISL common rail has a VGT with the 2 stage Jake Brake and no exhaust treatment of any sorts, the chassis was built in mid 04 and the coach was built in late 04. Having a “Jake Brake” and no after treatment were must have items on my list of items I wanted for my coach purchase. If my Jake’s are turned on the CC will not work, i don’t understand that but at some point in time I’m going to go to Cummins and hook up to the software and go through it with a tech to see what my options are, I did that on my Peterbilt’s and at the time there’s a number of different options you had, I had Caterpillars in my trucks. Interesting conversation, I’ve made my living behind a Jake Break, at just a tad over 3 million miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 12 hours ago, Jdw12345 said: Fwiw, I believe my 05 Dynasty with an ISL common rail has a VGT with the 2 stage Jake Brake and no exhaust treatment of any sorts, the chassis was built in mid 04 and the coach was built in late 04. Having a “Jake Brake” and no after treatment were must have items on my list of items I wanted for my coach purchase. If my Jake’s are turned on the CC will not work, i don’t understand that but at some point in time I’m going to go to Cummins and hook up to the software and go through it with a tech to see what my options are, I did that on my Peterbilt’s and at the time there’s a number of different options you had, I had Caterpillars in my trucks. Interesting conversation, I’ve made my living behind a Jake Break, at just a tad over 3 million miles! Jeff, actually you are correct. Cummins used a VGT turbo for a long time. I should have been clearer by saying VGT with VGT engine braking but no Jake brake. To my knowledge, that VGT Brake feature was incorporated with the electronic controlled actuator module. This control module provides feedback to the engine ECM on the actual vs commanded position of the VGT. For folks not familiar with what an electronic VGT actuator looks like, below is a picture of one sitting on top of my turbo at the bottom of the picture, below the EGR cooler that is below the crankcase blowby filter sitting on top of the valve cover. Yes, that picture was taken shortly after I steamed cleaned my 425 ISL. (If you look closely - I missed a few spots.) And yes, the VGT electronic actuator is cooled by the engine coolant (black hose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHRookie Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/19/2022 at 8:12 AM, Dr4Film said: Hi Steve, I am using the data from the SilverLeaf to obtain my mpg because both the generator and Aqua-Hot use diesel from the same tank. So, I have no way to calculate accurately how much gets used by those two devices versus just the engine using the number of gallons pumped divided by the miles driven. My cruise control is non-functional right now. So, I can't use it. It will turn on, but the SET and RES buttons will not work to set the cruise control speed. Hopefully it is an easy fix by replacing the SM210 control box someday when they become readily available. Had the same problem with the CC on the Windsor but could never find a new control box to install before it got sold. Have you performed the smart-wheel tests to rule out the steering wheel clock spring? I have intermittent issues After I turn on headlights but have not done the tests yet. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, MHRookie said: Have you performed the smart-wheel tests to rule out the steering wheel clock spring? I have intermittent issues After I turn on headlights but have not done the tests yet. Just curious. Nope, haven't done any troubleshooting as yet. This winter I will have time to pull the steering wheel and test the ends of the clock-spring to make sure that it has continuity on each of the four wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Mike Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I just came back from a trip yesterday traveling through the Tennessee mountains I had an 8% downhill grade for about 3 miles. It was the first time using my Two stage brake and wow did it preform well, I was impressed. I started in low down the hill and the rpm’s started creeping up slowly when it got to about 2400-2500 rpm I switched to high and man it started slowing down fast almost to slow. I just toggled back and forth a few times till I got to the bottom never touched my brake. My old Discovery had the exhaust brake and I always had to jab the brake to keep the rpm’s from getting to high and up shifting so to answer your question Richard yes I love my Isl 400 engine brake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 50 minutes ago, Georgia Mike said: I just came back from a trip yesterday traveling through the Tennessee mountains I had an 8% downhill grade for about 3 miles. It was the first time using my Two stage brake and wow did it preform well, I was impressed. I started in low down the hill and the rpm’s started creeping up slowly when it got to about 2400-2500 rpm I switched to high and man it started slowing down fast almost to slow. I just toggled back and forth a few times till I got to the bottom never touched my brake. My old Discovery had the exhaust brake and I always had to jab the brake to keep the rpm’s from getting to high and up shifting so to answer your question Richard yes I love my Isl 400 engine brake My same experience. The coach before my Dynasty was an 89 Winnebago 40' with a Ford 460 on a Deere Chassis tag axle chassis. The Hydra boost brakes was like driving a big heavy car from the 60's will no power brakes. If I really needed to stop it was both feet on the brake pedal and there was no way to lock up the wheels. After owning that Winnie for 16 year, the criteria for my next coach had to be a side radiator diesel pusher, air suspension, jake brake, Aquahot, residential refrigerator, and 4 slides. Back in early 2007, the Dynasty was the best value for the money and they would custom built it the way we wanted. Absolutely love this coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Thompson Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 1:30 PM, Frank McElroy said: The short answer is yes, that is correct. On the ISL400 you could have an exhaust Pac Brake or a two stage Jake Brake. I'm not sure if there is an ISL400 with VGT braking. Maybe someone will chime in if they have a VGT electronic actuator on an ISL400. Then with the ISL425 (CM2150) with DPF you likely have a VGT (Variable Geometry Turbo) brake that basically closes off about 90+% of the exhaust opening or you could have a VGT + a two stage Jake brake. Also, the first generation (CM554) ISL engines did not have roller cam lifters like the later generation ISL engines (CM850 and CM2150). I’m not sure when they changed to the roller lifters with the CM554 on the ISL 400, but the 2003 ISL 400 I am swapping in for the old ISC has the roller lifters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Thompson Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Since I will be new at having an ISL 400 with a 2 stage jake, I have a couple of questions. First, I know with the old pacbrake, it wouldn’t engage above 65 mph. How high can the rpm’s be and still have the 2 stage jake engage? Also, I would like to use the existing foot switch for the jake brake. I would assume you could wire it to engage it instead of the dash rocker switch, or split it so you could use either one. I like options. I too have had steering wheel clock spring issues. Since mine is an early smart wheel, it has the plastic ring with the 2 brass contact rings and spring loaded contacts. I’ve seen a post where a guy used a VW air bag clock spring to replace the old style. I may go that route, but when I had mine apart, the brass rings looked ok. I think the spring loaded contacts are slipping in the mounts. Since the rubber that holds the contacts is 22years old, it isn’t as flexible anymore. I’m going to try siliconing the contacts in place. If that doesn’t work, I will spend the $30 for the VW clock spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, Ken Thompson said: Since I will be new at having an ISL 400 with a 2 stage jake, I have a couple of questions. First, I know with the old pacbrake, it wouldn’t engage above 65 mph. How high can the rpm’s be and still have the 2 stage jake engage? Also, I would like to use the existing foot switch for the jake brake. I would assume you could wire it to engage it instead of the dash rocker switch, or split it so you could use either one. I like options. I too have had steering wheel clock spring issues. Since mine is an early smart wheel, it has the plastic ring with the 2 brass contact rings and spring loaded contacts. I’ve seen a post where a guy used a VW air bag clock spring to replace the old style. I may go that route, but when I had mine apart, the brass rings looked ok. I think the spring loaded contacts are slipping in the mounts. Since the rubber that holds the contacts is 22years old, it isn’t as flexible anymore. I’m going to try siliconing the contacts in place. If that doesn’t work, I will spend the $30 for the VW clock spring. Here is a wiring diagram on my coach showing the high low Jake brake switches and the optional foot switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Thompson Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said: Here is a wiring diagram on my coach showing the high low Jake brake switches and the optional foot switch. Since there is a few years and ECM differences, I think to simplify it, I can split the wire that goes to the “on-off” jake switch, and run it to the foot switch which will act as the rocker switch to turn it on and off. So if I need it on for a long downgrade I can use the rocker, but if I only need it for a short time, I can use the foot switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 That's exactly what the wiring diagram is showing. The foot switch is basically wired in parallel to the Jake brake on off switch. The high low Jake is a separate switch. What I didn't realize is that my wiring diagram included an optional plug for a foot switch. Check the wiring diagram on your coach. You might also have the plugs prewired for a two stage Jake brake switches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 31 minutes ago, Ken Thompson said: Since there is a few years and ECM differences, I think to simplify it, I can split the wire that goes to the “on-off” jake switch, and run it to the foot switch which will act as the rocker switch to turn it on and off. So if I need it on for a long downgrade I can use the rocker, but if I only need it for a short time, I can use the foot switch. You don't want to split any wire. You want to wire the foot switch as Frank suggested, in "parallel". That will allow you to use either to turn on the engine brake. The foot switch should be a momentary one wired to be default off, then on when pressed. The dash switch is a simple off/on switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Hales Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 My 06 Diplomat PDQ has the exhaust brake which is the most important driving aid I've got. Use it a lot out west. I'd love the 2-stage engine brake however. Lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Thompson Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I too had the pac brake, and out here in the west, it’s marginal at best. I see you are from St. George. We have property in Apple Valley, so we go up and down a lot of big hills from NW Oregon to southern Utah. I am excited to have a 2 stage jake in my newer ISL 400 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diplomat don Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On 10/23/2022 at 7:50 AM, Dr4Film said: Nope, haven't done any troubleshooting as yet. This winter I will have time to pull the steering wheel and test the ends of the clock-spring to make sure that it has continuity on each of the four wires. Doc, before tearing your smart wheel apart try turning off your engine brake and then setting your cruise control. My Imperial is set so if the compression brake is on the CC won't set or work but turn the engine brake off and the cruise can be set or used. Try this might be easier than pulling the wheel apart. Good luck, Don. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTTech Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Guys, I have a question of one of you that has the armrest switch. I have a '04 Panther that came with only the foot switch, but the wiring and hole is there for an armrest switch. I'm assuming it's a single throw switch with just an OFF-On Function, but I'd like to confirm that. I'm trying to get a part number of that rocker switch and can't configure it until I know. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 Greg, Yes. It's a simple On/Off Carlings Technology Switch. Northwest RV Supply in Eugene OR will have just what you need. Give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Thompson Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 NW RV supply has a lot more switches than what’s on line. I was just there a week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTTech Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Thanks for the confirmation. Helps me figure out the logic on their circuit. I can never leave well enough alone. I'm hoping to make it double throw, Momentary On-OFF-ON. I've been staring at schematics for a few days trying to figure out how to do it. That way I could just tap it on the arm rest to engage for a pulse or flip it to on to leave it on. I always feel like I'm fumbling around trying to find the floor switch. I was on the Carling site https://www.carlingtech.com/rocker-switches-v-series-ii-iii. It's amazing how many varieties they have and the selection of custom covers. You can even order custom text. I think I bought my last one at mouser.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 I don't think you want to purchase a momentary otherwise you will have to hold the switch down by hand to keep the engine brake on. It has to be an ON-OFF switch. The foot switch is a momentary switch, foot on - engine brake on / foot off - engine brake off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Thompson Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 That’s the way my pac brake is. I’m going to try the jakes with just the dash switch to start, but may connect to the old foot switch. To me it’s easier and faster to just step on the switch, rather than try to find the rocker switch beside me. That’s just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 Foot switch great for temporary engine or exhaust brake ON. Dash switch great for leaving engine or exhaust brake on for whatever length of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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