Hypoxia Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Here are some Lift Pump files I found from the 2003 ISC 8.3 coach I had. Fuel_Transfer_Pump_Install.pdf Lift Pump Parts Breakdown.pdf Lift Pump Testing.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 Thank You Sir!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 HELP My mobile mechanic came out today and replaced the lift pump gasket and we stopped the leak! We then tried to start the coach and it continued to sputter and choke out after 3-6 seconds. So, after many attempts to start the engine with the mechanic unscrewing each injector to get rid of air and see if fuel was coming out, it would not run. He put his computer on the engine and it threw codes pointing to the Capps fuel pump system? My mechanic thinks my Capps fuel pump is bad! He said that a couple of injectors were producing a lot of fuel but 1-4 was barley coming out. Wants me to order a new Capps pump and he will install here where I am stuck at the State Park volunteer park. Doe's anyone have any thought on this or a source for securing the pump? Cummins 350 ISC 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaz996 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) Is your engine puffing grey smoke when it fires? That's what mine did when my CAPPS pump died. I had it replaced with a Cummins factory rebuilt pump. $4500. New was $6500 with the same guarantee. This was last NOV. Edited November 1, 2022 by Tim-AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) Last fall on my way to Pensacola, FL coming thru Mobile, AL I discovered that my fuel line between my FASS pump and the filter on the engine just before the CAPPS injector pump had a pin hole. I turned off the FASS pump, and continued to Pensacola. The MH sat there for a couple of months, I bought a new fuel hose and installed it. I tried to start the engine, after running the FASS pump thinking that it would have no problem filling that new fuel hose..... I was wrong, engine just sputtered, and gray smoke.... (FASS pumps put out lots of volume, and 18-20 psi). So then I put air pressure on the fuel tank, ran the FASS pump and cracked the fuel line I had replaced at the engine end until fuel flowed out if it. Cranked it again with air on the tank and the FASS pump running and the engine finally fired and has run like a top ever since. My point here is, it takes an amazing amount of "bleeding" to get the air out of the system... you said you replaced filters (first thing), then found the lift pump gasket leaking.... I'm telling you, do not replace that CAPPS pump until you are SURE that it is getting a solid supply of fuel... no air. Diesels run on fuel.... fuel starved engines do not run.... I'm betting a fuel starved CAPPS put out fault codes ..... It's not expensive, it's not hard to do.... blow and bleed the crXp out of that thing before you spend 6-7-8k on a CAPPS pump! Ken Edited November 1, 2022 by Cubflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 Ken, couple questions: Will fault code shut down the Capps system? My pump had been leaking for about a year with small drips, this time it was more of a consistent drip. Mechanic Spent all day here yesterday fixing the lift pump and trying to purge all the air out of the system. The lift pump is working and both of my filters are full. Mechanic went to the point where he unscrewed fuel supply lines to each injector. He said a couple of them had plenty of fuel coming out and several others barley had fuel coming out. We cycled the engine on and off a thousand times had to put external battery boost and still no luck. I had a red warning light on dash and his computer diagnosis pointed back to Capps Pump. Am I missing anything? 9 hours ago, Tim-AZ said: Is your engine puffing grey smoke when it fires? That's what mine did when my CAPPS pump died. I had it replaced with a Cummins factory rebuilt pump. $4500. New was $6500 with the same guarantee. This was last NOV. I had black a couple times and tried to run for about three seconds and it would just shut down. Mechanic said the computer was probably picking up the fact it was not pumping enough fuel? After many attempts to start the engine we finally was getting nothing! He will come to me and install, how many hours did it take to install? do you have the part number for yours? ISC 8.3 Cummins i see some on line in the $3k range with the supressor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 58 minutes ago, thancoc@bellsouth.net said: Am I missing anything? I'm no expert. I do not know what or if any codes will be displayed by a capps failure... BUT I sure wanted you to be SURE the CAPPS pump had a good fuel supply before condemning the CAPP$$ pump. Sounds like you did, but again, I was amazed at how much time with constant air pressure on my tank, with a fulltime running FASS pump while cranking the engine it took for it to fire up..... and that was after bleeding the fuel line I had replaced! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Cubflyer said: I'm no expert. I do not know what or if any codes will be displayed by a capps failure... BUT I sure wanted you to be SURE the CAPPS pump had a good fuel supply before condemning the CAPP$$ pump. Sounds like you did, but again, I was amazed at how much time with constant air pressure on my tank, with a fulltime running FASS pump while cranking the engine it took for it to fire up..... and that was after bleeding the fuel line I had replaced! Ken I hear you Ken! I have not been off the computer since last Wednesday. Seems like my set up to this is not out of the norm. I watch him check and saw plenty of fuel coming out of a couple injectors but not the others! I have had NO issues with my engine for 7 years.. so I count that pretty lucky! I will do a Fass install as soon as I can get running again! Comments are WELCOME it is lonley broke down!! lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 What were the fault codes that were displayed when he hooked up the computer? Attached is a copy/paste portion of a thread on IRV2 describing the "Control Valve Stator" on the CAPPS pump. I've seen this problem on IRV2 several times and it took this poster quite a bit of troubleshooting to find and fix the problem. If you do a search for fault code 276 on the Cummins Quickserve site it will go into the troubleshooting procedure. Part of the troubleshooitng is to do a CLICK test on the stator, this requires a computer with the Insite program. The posts I've read on this usually start with a leaking lift/transfer pump. The real problem is the amount of air that is drawn into the CAPPS injections pump which basically fails the pump. Sometimes replacing the stator fixes the problem but most of the time the CAPPS pump has to be replaced. There is also a Transient Suppressor that should be replaced, this protects the stator, a fairly cheap accessible part located on the passenger side of the engine block in front of the compressor. I attached a picture of this. Caps trouble shooting Stator failed.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 your words are exactly what my mechanic said and what I have researched. I have come to peace with the cost of part and he is going to charge me a flat rate to install. I just worry about whats comes after that if it dont start.. I know Quit worrying lol thanks for input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaz996 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) Sorry the part number in not on my receipt. Here is the text of what they did. It was two guys working on it and one was a 20+ year Cummins mechanic. I think it took about five hours of work on the motorhome. Not including driving to get the part in city traffic. I was 1/4 mile from one Cummings shop that didn't have the pump and would not request the other Cummins shop to send it over. This was Wed. afternoon on Thanksgiving last year at 3:30. By the time all of the driving to get the pump and install it was done at 10:30 that night. Complaint: Died and will not restart Cause: Customer request Labor Correction: Engine / Fuel / Drove to Mesa drive and coury, located the motorhome and plugged in the computer and verified issue. Found that the Caps pump rotor was bad. Drove to Tolleson and picked up part and returned to job. Removed old fuel pump and reinstalled the new fuel pump and tested for proper operation. Repairs are complete. Return back to ESI shop. Parts $4,621.68 Labor $1,240.00 Unit: 1 VIN: 1RF120615Y1009869 License Plate: (Arizona) Cbb9126 2000 Roadmaster S-Series Monocoque Labor $1,240.00 Parts $4,621.68 Shop Supplies $86.80 Pre Tax Total $5,948.48 Arizona, City of Apache Junction (2.4000% of $4,708.48) $113.00 Arizona, Pinal county (1.6000% of $4,708.48) $75.34 AZ State (5.6000% of $4,708.48) $263.67 Total $6,400.49 Payments & Credits $6,400.49 Balance Due $0.00 Edited November 1, 2022 by Tim-AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 If you are using a Cummins shop they'll supply the injector pump and probably wouldn't install one you bought somewhere else. If you are using a independent shop you might be able to work with them on the part. Several people on the IRV2 site have posted good comments about BK Diesel. I have never bought from them. I went on the Cummins Quickserve site and found the part number for an injection pump for my rig, BK Diesel does show the part, not sure on availablity. It also shows the transient suppressor on the same page. https://bkdiesel.com/i-30499453?q=4076442+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 I found a MOM and POP shop that has been in business 40 years United Turbo and Fuel in Birmingham, AL. They have a rebuild pump that I will be picking up tomorrow!! #4076441 and the supressor #3944110.. fair rate under $4000 with a core charge!! I pray this is the fix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Tom, Are you up and running again?? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 OK UPDATE: I still need guidance! We fixed the leaky lift pump and engine would still not start! I had a mobile mechanic that came by reference to the park to check it out. He spent a great deal of time trying to get it started to no luck. Told me it was the CAPS FUEL PUMP. My wife and I drove to Birmingham, AL to pick up a reman Pump from United Fuel and Turbo. Brought it back and the mechanic put it on and guess what it still did not start. This mobile mechanic was a hard worker and did a physically good job but did not have Cummins insight on his code reader. My mechanic back home told me to get someone in there that had a computer. So I had that mechanic find another mobile mechanic We had Southern Commerical Diesel out of Crestview, FL come out ran the computer and came up with code #111 BAD ECM. He saved my info on his computer and we emailed it to an ECM reman shop and they overnighted back to us a new reman with my specs preloaded! Yesterday the mechanic came and installed it and the engine fired right up. We left Destin and drove north for about four hours and 200 miles no issues ran perfect. We went to make a turn off a two lane and it died. I had to get it towed to a truck stop in Tuskegee AL which is where i am sitting. I had a mobile guy come out last night and verified my rv diagnostics and code #493 Fault Code: 493 Injection Control Valve Identifier Circuit he told me to call the Pump reman people in am and get tier advice? Do any of you guys have any thoughts? I am $4000 into a new pump, first mechanic did not hit me up for labor I am $2300 into a new ECM I am $1000 into a tow I have a mobile mechanic here that charges $95 an hour plus $95 service call So another $300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 If you go to the Cummins Quickserve site and do a fault code lookup for 493 it gives you a brief summary of the fault code but within that there is a link to a troubleshooting procedure. I saved it and attached it. Simplest thing to do is try unplugging the CAPS harness and plug it back in. 71-t05-493 troubleshooting.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 I am getting ready to put my coveralls on and start meddling. I also have a call into United Turbo and Fuel for guidance. I dont really want to do alot to it since it is under warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Sorry to hear this is giving you such a rough time.... please keep us updated... You are into things way past my 'paygrade/knowledge/experience'... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 Final Verdict: Talked Progressive Insurance into towing me 120 miles to my mechanic in Douglasville, GA last night. Backed in at midnight and slept there last night! My mechanic sent two guys to my RV at 9:30 am put their computer to work because I got a new code #277, which is still the Injector Control Valve. They set the Cummins insight program to do a click test to the ICV. Nothing, they then start shaking the wires and it start to click. Then one of the guys said the plug was not plugged in and snap locked, he pushed it in tight and bam I was running. I had an oil pressure senor bad they replaced it and cleared codes and made sure my ECM was up to date. Three hours later $347 bucks charged I was fixed. I gave out three bottles of MM bourbon to Jeremy and the guys, paid $400 cash, gave them hugs and left. Side Bar: my Mechanic Jeremy took every call and answered every text over the last 6-7 days. Everyone needs someone they can count on for guidance. Besides Jeremy I look on here often for ways to move forward. Thanks to all! If you ever in west Georgia call: Silver Streak Equipment Services and talk to Jeremy! Phone # 678-401-6784 Douglasville, GA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 MM goes a long ways, at least it would for me. Glad you got it fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 I know right and they were handles not the small stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 hours ago, thancoc@bellsouth.net said: I know right and they were handles not the small stuff! MM Handles - yep I bet they were happy! When you have good folks that help you I'm sure they appreciated what you gave them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Tom, That is great news! Looking back, do you think the first (original) problem was the ECM? Lesson from this being... Computer diagnostic is critical once you are sure all the basics (fuel-air-spark(compression)) are there? I'm knocking on wood hoping I never have to go thru what you just did! Glad you made it. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thancoc@bellsouth.net Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 Yes, the rest of the story! As Paul Harvey would say! I had original mechanic come out to replace my gasket on Lift Pump. He did that then spent 4 hours trying to get it started. He had a computer but not with Cummins Insight. After, checking each injector for fuel while trying to start engine, he determined it was the fuel pump. I Got a reman pump, he installed it and it was still doing the same thing. So, I explained to him I was not mad because, he did work hard installing the new pump. He is a great physical mechanic, but I needed him to get someone out to run diagnostics on my rig and be able to trouble shoot and run test. I told him I would be the nicest pissed off guy he ever met. He referred me to another mobile mechanic. He left (I had not paid him any money for both days yet) and I have not heard from him since. Other mechanics I have talked to said they would be responsible for labor and parts if they had done that! I did not want all that as I do have a new pump. I felt he should have said not to worry about labor, but he never called so that is the same to me. My new mobile guy never even opened the engine bay. He sat in my driver seat and ran his computer for about 45 mins. Cleared the codes and tried to reload ECM specs. Tried to start and it did for about 30 secs, then the codes popped back up and shut it down again. That confirmed to him the codes and the way it was acting that ECM was bad. IT was a 20 year old ECM and he said everything electronics will eventually go bad. He installed the new ECM and it never sounded so good. HE said it was the ECM all along based on active codes!!!! When I drove 200 miles and it shut down again, I was sick. To find out the plug to the fuel pump ICV was not snaped back in place is frustrating. I looked at that plug, it appeared to be plugged in. I did not want to unplug and replug it because as I said it look right to me a Novis person. But that was all it was. Once I got it towed to my guy, he was able to run the click test through the computer and fix the plug. He also was able to put a new oil pressure senor in for me and recalibrate it on my ECM.. I have no engine lights on my dash now which is comforting. He told me I should be good for a while. I have learned so much through this process it is crazy 1) Don't take no for an answer from your insurance company! I had to push through to get them to get me towed (120 Miles). I live in my RV so I was pretty adamant 2) Do not ever let a mechanic touch your RV without a Computer and if you have a Cummins it has to have Insight! 3) If you have a gut feeling, listen to your gut- this goes for food too!! 4) You have little negotiating power with half of your motorhome sitting in the middle of the road! $1000 for three mile tow to truck stop 5) You need to carry at least $5000 cash in your coach to settle crap as it happens. They will give you breaks in their charges if you have cash. 6) Do not let a mechanic throw parts at something. Make it clear if they run the computer and it does not work they could be liable! MAKE SURE THEY CHECK AND RECHECK EACH CONNECTION!! 7) We always travel during daylight hours, but this time when we got it fixed it was 1 pm in afternoon and we needed to exit the park. We planned to drive until 5:30 pm and stop. So I broke down in daylight but 45 mins later it was DARK. DST kicked in that weekend did not help! Our rule which I broke was 3:30 rule -- drive 330 miles a day and stop by 3:30 pm each day! We have been driving from about 6:30 am to 1:30 for the last couple years. But I screwed that up. 😎 Plan you route before you go. Know your stops, fuel stops and have a break down plan. I have a couple apps on my phone that show different services. My best luck has come from asking local shops in the area who was the best. 9) Make sure you have someone local that knows your rig that you can text or call as a second opinion when things are going down. My home mechanic was a life savior. 10) Finally, My stress level broke the meter several times through this process. I am a man of Faith and I cried out to the Lord many times to teach me through this and not allow me to be THAT GUY who blows his top. I was able to stay calm but my gut was tore up! A ECM replacement should have cost me around around $2300! I spent $6800 plus a $1000 for first tow or $7800 (I may eat the first tow as I dont want to abuse or cause Progressive to cancel me-I am not sure about that yet. Progressive tow bill had to be at least $2000 plus for 120 miles Total cost of this thread and RV was $9800 on a $2300 job. BEST ADVICE AWARD GOES TO MY WIFE She asked me Tom do we have the money to fix this. I said YES she said Can the RV be fixed I said YES and she said then lets stop fretting about. Count our blessings and move on. Now when we was in the middle of the road! I had to assure HER That we were all good!! SORRY for the ramble and I am moving on. Leaving Tuesday from GA to head to west Texas for Thanksgiving with family!! Thanks for all!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Great Advice I hope you saved a bottle of the MM for yourself, sounds like you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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