Jump to content

Torqueing Lug Nuts


NAMVET77

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, DrDon4u said:

Go to any truck tire store, they usually torq your lug nuts for free or a small charge. Call around.

They probably will, but you still need to drive the rig to their shop!

32 minutes ago, Ken Thompson said:

  I just think truck tires could be torqued at a lot lower value and still not come off. 

Probably, but I just don't want to test that theory!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Folks, tire lug nuts have torque specs for a reason.  Every professional truck tire shop I've ever used set the lug nut torques to spec with a calibrated torque wrench and they oiled the lug nut to washer as per the axle manufacturer spec.  I also do my own tire mounting and always follow the axle manufacture procedure when I torqued lug nuts using a dedicated calibrated wheel nut torque wrench - (not a torque multiplier that can have a huge amount of error in the calculated torque value)

If you over torqued the lug nut, you will over stretch the stud, weaken the clamping force and over time cause a broken wheel stud.  Under torqued and the clamping force won't hold the wheel in place such that the wheel stud is not centered and results in the stud hitting the side of the wheel hole.

Yes, the wheel studs should NOT be touching the side of the wheel stud hole opening.  Think about it - car wheel lug nuts are tapered at the end for a reason to center the stud in the wheel hole opening.

A good shop will also use at least two special studs with a sleeves of different lengths depending on whether it's a single or dual wheel to center the wheels such that the wheel stud opening doesn't touch the side of the stud.  Once the other studs are tightened, the special spacer lug nuts are removed and replaced with normal lug nuts. 

The truck tire shops I've used always used these special wheel positioning lug nuts to center the wheel so they don't touch the wheel threaded studs when the lug nuts are tightened.

There are lots of shops that take short cuts.  That's a major reason why I do my own tire changes.

PXL_20221130_060121079.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Ken Thompson said:

Tire shops don’t torque truck lug nuts. They just use the big air gun and call it good. I think the 450-500 ft lbs is way overkill. 

They did on mine. They came out and put the tires on in my shop. I sat and watched them. Same guys who fix semi tractor tires on the side of the interstate.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, NAMVET77 said:

I didn't get a chance to put the gauge right behind the socket today but will tomorrow (not sure why that would make a difference).  Is there a formula to using the torque multiplier? 

What you could do is tighten a lug nut with a conventional torque wrench, note the torque then put the torque wrench to the multiplier and see what it takes to move the lug.  THAT would be your baseline setting.  If you can torque your lugs to 250 ft-lbs conventionally and it takes 10 ft-lbs to move it any more with the multiplier then 20 ft-lbs would get you (pretty reasonably) at 500 ft-lbs.

Of course, this is just theory . . . . .

- bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

Folks, tire lug nuts have torque specs for a reason.  Every professional truck tire shop I've ever used set the lug nut torques to spec with a calibrated torque wrench and they oiled the lug nut to washer as per the axle manufacturer spec.  I also do my own tire mounting and always follow the axle manufacture procedure when I torqued lug nuts using a dedicated calibrated wheel nut torque wrench - (not a torque multiplier that can have a huge amount of error in the calculated torque value)

If you over torqued the lug nut, you will over stretch the stud, weaken the clamping force and over time cause a broken wheel stud.  Under torqued and the clamping force won't hold the wheel in place such that the wheel stud is not centered and results in the stud hitting the side of the wheel hole.

Yes, the wheel studs should NOT be touching the side of the wheel stud hole opening.  Think about it - car wheel lug nuts are tapered at the end for a reason to center the stud in the wheel hole opening.

A good shop will also use at least two special studs with a sleeves of different lengths depending on whether it's a single or dual wheel to center the wheels such that the wheel stud opening doesn't touch the side of the stud.  Once the other studs are tightened, the special spacer lug nuts are removed and replaced with normal lug nuts. 

The truck tire shops I've used always used these special wheel positioning lug nuts to center the wheel so they don't touch the wheel threaded studs when the lug nuts are tightened.

There are lots of shops that take short cuts.  That's a major reason why I do my own tire changes.

PXL_20221130_060121079.jpg

Yep. Got your email too. Thanks Frank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2022 at 11:03 AM, NAMVET77 said:

I have a 2004 Camelot and I can't find any specs on torquing the lug nuts.  I have read and heard that it's supposed to be 500 foot pounds.  I don't have a torque wrench that goes that high so I bought a torque multiplier and a digital gauge to get an accurate reading.  My problem is, I can only torque the nuts to 300 foot pounds.  I'm not the strongest guy around but can hold my own.  I see several strings where people do their own work and use a multiplier with the digital reader.  How the heck do you get to 500 foot pounds? 

Don

I have an ATD 109, 600LB Torque wrench that we carried for over 15 years in our car trailer.  I do not need it any more, because we are shut down, in North Phoenix for the duration, due to heart issues. The length of the 600 ft lb wrench and the beefiness of it allow for smooth torquing, as required for proper torquing. Wrench has backed off to Zero to maintain it's calibration, as required of any torque wrench. I also have a custom fabricated 1" breaker bar with a solid 1" insert rod to allow leverage to loosen tightened nuts or bolts. NOTE: A torque wrench should never be used as a breaker bar, PERIOD!

ATD109 is in a metal case, with handle.  Note: new 2505 model has cheap plastic case.

ATD 2505 3/4" Drive 100-600 Ft.-Lbs

Part Number: ATD-2505

Made in the U.S.A.

ATD-2505 -Replaces ATD 109

Features:
•Knurled, metal handle for non-slip grip
•Easy-to-read laser marked dual scales
•Positive lock with spring loaded pull down lock ring
•Fast, accurate and easy to set
•Quick release ratchet head for positive socket retention and easy removal
•Accuracy: ± 4% CW ± 4% CCW of indicated value, CW, from 20% to 100% of full scale
•Certified to meet the accuracy in specifications: ASME B107.14-2004, GGG-W-686,

Type 2, Class A Style 1, 2 and ISO 6789
•Individually serialized with matching certificate of calibration traceable to N.I.S.T.
Comes in blow molded storage case with instructions and calibration certificate
•Made in the USA with US and foreign parts

Price:  $467.00

Weight:  10.00

I will sell the 600 lb Torque wrench for $200 

Breaker bar for $100

Will sell as a package for $275

Prices are firm and Pickup in AZ prices. Different Zones require different shipping charges.

Also have a Snap-ON 250ft lb torque wrench in protective plastic case with Calibration Certificate.

QD3R250A.jpg?w=200&auto=format

Features

• Dual 80® Technology ratchet design features 80-tooth gear with dual pawls

• Roll-marked measurement scale for better visibility and permanency

• Reduced swing arc allows technician to use in tighter areas, such as engine compartments, offering overall improved clearance

• Accurate to ± 4% clockwise and ±6% counterclockwise from 20% of full scale to full scale

• Unique cam design minimizes friction due to reduced contact area between the cam and internal tube wall

• Cam retains and releases lubricant where needed, reducing friction for more accurate and repeatable torque values

• Packaged with certificate of calibration

• Rugged, trouble-free performance

• Sealed ratchet heads keep out dirt and moisture, while being virtually maintenance-free

• 50-250 ft-lb

1/2" Drive SAE Adjustable Click-Type Fixed Ratchet Torque Wrench (50–250 ft-lb)
QD3R250A
$450.00


 

I will sell the Snap-On 1/2" Drive Torque Wrench for  $200

If a person would buy all three at the above prices, they would be getting 3 for the price of  athe New version 2505 Torque Wrench, which replaces the ATD109.  The ATD 109 is more sought after than the newer version!

Edited by clarksark
Ad info
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, clarksark said:

I have an ATD 109, 600LB Torque wrench that we carried for over 15 years in our car trailer.  I do not need it any more, because we are shut down, in North Phoenix for the duration, due to heart issues. The length of the 600 ft lb wrench and the beefiness of it allow for smooth torquing, as required for proper torquing. Wrench has backed off to Zero to maintain it's calibration, as required of any torque wrench. I also have a custom fabricated 1" breaker bar with a solid 1" insert rod to allow leverage to loosen tightened nuts or bolts.

ATD109 is in a metal case, with handle.  Note: new 2505 model has cheap plastic case.

ATD 2505 3/4" Drive 100-600 Ft.-Lbs

Part Number: ATD-2505

Made in the U.S.A.

ATD-2505 -Replaces ATD 109

Features:
•Knurled, metal handle for non-slip grip
•Easy-to-read laser marked dual scales
•Positive lock with spring loaded pull down lock ring
•Fast, accurate and easy to set
•Quick release ratchet head for positive socket retention and easy removal
•Accuracy: ± 4% CW ± 4% CCW of indicated value, CW, from 20% to 100% of full scale
•Certified to meet the accuracy in specifications: ASME B107.14-2004, GGG-W-686,

Type 2, Class A Style 1, 2 and ISO 6789
•Individually serialized with matching certificate of calibration traceable to N.I.S.T.
Comes in blow molded storage case with instructions and calibration certificate
•Made in the USA with US and foreign parts

Price:  $467.00

Weight:  10.00

I will sell the 600 lb Torque wrench for $200 

Breaker bar for $100

Will sell as a package for $275

Prices are firm.

Also have a Snap-ON 250ft lb torque wrench in protective plastic case with Calibration Certificate.

QD3R250A.jpg?w=200&auto=format

Features

• Dual 80® Technology ratchet design features 80-tooth gear with dual pawls

• Roll-marked measurement scale for better visibility and permanency

• Reduced swing arc allows technician to use in tighter areas, such as engine compartments, offering overall improved clearance

• Accurate to ± 4% clockwise and ±6% counterclockwise from 20% of full scale to full scale

• Unique cam design minimizes friction due to reduced contact area between the cam and internal tube wall

• Cam retains and releases lubricant where needed, reducing friction for more accurate and repeatable torque values

• Packaged with certificate of calibration

• Rugged, trouble-free performance

• Sealed ratchet heads keep out dirt and moisture, while being virtually maintenance-free

• 50-250 ft-lb

1/2" Drive SAE Adjustable Click-Type Fixed Ratchet Torque Wrench (50–250 ft-lb)
QD3R250A
$450.00


 

I will sell the Snap-On 1/2" Drive Torque Wrench for  $200

If a person would buy all three at the above prices, they would be getting 3 for the price of  athe New version 2505 Torque Wrench, which replaces the ATD109.  The ATD 109 is more sought after than the newer version!

If I was in the market for a torque wrench kit I'd be all over this one.  Unfortunately for you I already own too many of them 🙂 .

With regards to torque wrench I saw a guy this summer at the track who didn't believe in torquing lose a wheels after his studs broke.  Cost him a fairly new Camaro ZL1 1LE.  Not a pretty sight.  Also when shops go the impact route to screw bolts they more often than not overtighten which just makes it harder to take them off when the time comes.  Normally you shouldn't need a torque multiplier to release the bolts if tightened correctly, a breaker bar should be enough!  

Good luck with the sale!

Edited by RedSectorA
misspelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

NOTE - ALL ITEMS HAVE BEEN SOLD.

Back in the day, I was taught in the US NAVY to be a Jet engine mechanic and attained E5 in 3 years. Torquing a nut or bolt requires smooth, steady pressure, until the required and or setting has been attained. If it is not a smooth and continuous pressure, it will not be an accurate torque process; especially if a jerking motion is required to reach that last little bit of the specification. NOTE: A torque wrench should never be used as a breaker bar, PERIOD!  Do it right; or don't do it!

Torque multipliers work: BUT, only if you have a long enough wrench bar, of the proper strength, without bending, to power the multiplier in a smooth continuous pressure movement, with an impact rated extension bar. It needs to be impact rated, so as not to absorb, the torque force, but to transfer it smoothly. I've watched so called"Tire Shops" torque our wheels, and when I re-torqued, they were off sometimes as much as 100 ft lbs. That is why I always re-torqued our own wheels.

I have an ATD 109, 600 ft LB, Torque wrench that we carried for over 15 years in our car trailer, for sale.  I do not need it any more, because we are shut down, in North Phoenix for the duration, due to heart issues. The length of the 600 ft lb wrench and the beefiness of it allow for smooth torquing, as required for proper torquing. Wrench has backed off to Zero to maintain it's calibration, as required of any torque wrench. I also have a custom fabricated 1" breaker bar with a solid 1" insert rod to allow leverage to loosen tightened nuts or bolts.NOTE: A torque wrench should never be used as a breaker bar, PERIOD!

ATD109 is in a metal case, with handle.  Note: new 2505 model has cheap plastic case.

ATD 2505 3/4" Drive 100-600 Ft.-Lbs

Part Number: ATD-2505

Made in the U.S.A.

ATD-2505 -Replaces ATD 109

Features:
•Knurled, metal handle for non-slip grip
•Easy-to-read laser marked dual scales
•Positive lock with spring loaded pull down lock ring
•Fast, accurate and easy to set
•Quick release ratchet head for positive socket retention and easy removal
•Accuracy: ± 4% CW ± 4% CCW of indicated value, CW, from 20% to 100% of full scale
•Certified to meet the accuracy in specifications: ASME B107.14-2004, GGG-W-686,

Type 2, Class A Style 1, 2 and ISO 6789
•Individually serialized with matching certificate of calibration traceable to N.I.S.T.
Comes in blow molded storage case with instructions and calibration certificate
•Made in the USA with US and foreign parts

Price:  $467.00

Weight:  10.00

I will sell the 600 lb Torque wrench for $200 

Breaker bar for $100

Will sell as a package for $275

Prices are firm.  Prices are pickup in AZ prices. Different Zones require different shipping charges.

Also have a Snap-ON 250ft lb torque wrench in protective plastic case with Calibration Certificate.

QD3R250A.jpg?w=200&auto=format

Features

• Dual 80® Technology ratchet design features 80-tooth gear with dual pawls

• Roll-marked measurement scale for better visibility and permanency

• Reduced swing arc allows technician to use in tighter areas, such as engine compartments, offering overall improved clearance

• Accurate to ± 4% clockwise and ±6% counterclockwise from 20% of full scale to full scale

• Unique cam design minimizes friction due to reduced contact area between the cam and internal tube wall

• Cam retains and releases lubricant where needed, reducing friction for more accurate and repeatable torque values

• Packaged with certificate of calibration

• Rugged, trouble-free performance

• Sealed ratchet heads keep out dirt and moisture, while being virtually maintenance-free

• 50-250 ft-lb

1/2" Drive SAE Adjustable Click-Type Fixed Ratchet Torque Wrench (50–250 ft-lb)
QD3R250A
$450.00


 

I will sell the Snap-On 1/2" Drive Torque Wrench for  $200

If a person would buy all three at the above prices, they would be getting 3 for the price of  athe New version 2505 Torque Wrench, which replaces the ATD109.  The ATD 109 is more sought after than the newer version!

Like
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, clarksark said:

Back in the day, I was taught in the US NAVY to be a Jet engine mechanic and attained E5 in 3 years. Torquing a nut or bolt requires smooth, steady pressure, until the required and or setting has been attained. If it is not a smooth and continuous pressure, it will not be an accurate torque process; especially if a jerking motion is required to reach that last little bit of the specification. NOTE: A torque wrench should never be used as a breaker bar, PERIOD!  Do it right; or don't do it!

Torque multipliers work: BUT, only if you have a long enough wrench bar, of the proper strength, without bending, to power the multiplier in a smooth continuous pressure movement, with an impact rated extension bar. It needs to be impact rated, so as not to absorb, the torque force, but to transfer it smoothly. I've watched so called"Tire Shops" torque our wheels, and when I re-torqued, they were off sometimes as much as 100 ft lbs. That is why I always re-torqued our own wheels.

I have an ATD 109, 600 ft LB, Torque wrench that we carried for over 15 years in our car trailer, for sale.  I do not need it any more, because we are shut down, in North Phoenix for the duration, due to heart issues. The length of the 600 ft lb wrench and the beefiness of it allow for smooth torquing, as required for proper torquing. Wrench has backed off to Zero to maintain it's calibration, as required of any torque wrench. I also have a custom fabricated 1" breaker bar with a solid 1" insert rod to allow leverage to loosen tightened nuts or bolts.NOTE: A torque wrench should never be used as a breaker bar, PERIOD!

ATD109 is in a metal case, with handle.  Note: new 2505 model has cheap plastic case.

ATD 2505 3/4" Drive 100-600 Ft.-Lbs

Part Number: ATD-2505

Made in the U.S.A.

ATD-2505 -Replaces ATD 109

Features:
•Knurled, metal handle for non-slip grip
•Easy-to-read laser marked dual scales
•Positive lock with spring loaded pull down lock ring
•Fast, accurate and easy to set
•Quick release ratchet head for positive socket retention and easy removal
•Accuracy: ± 4% CW ± 4% CCW of indicated value, CW, from 20% to 100% of full scale
•Certified to meet the accuracy in specifications: ASME B107.14-2004, GGG-W-686,

Type 2, Class A Style 1, 2 and ISO 6789
•Individually serialized with matching certificate of calibration traceable to N.I.S.T.
Comes in blow molded storage case with instructions and calibration certificate
•Made in the USA with US and foreign parts

Price:  $467.00

Weight:  10.00

I will sell the 600 lb Torque wrench for $200 

Breaker bar for $100

Will sell as a package for $275

Prices are firm.  Prices are pickup in AZ prices. Different Zones require different shipping charges.

Also have a Snap-ON 250ft lb torque wrench in protective plastic case with Calibration Certificate.

QD3R250A.jpg?w=200&auto=format

Features

• Dual 80® Technology ratchet design features 80-tooth gear with dual pawls

• Roll-marked measurement scale for better visibility and permanency

• Reduced swing arc allows technician to use in tighter areas, such as engine compartments, offering overall improved clearance

• Accurate to ± 4% clockwise and ±6% counterclockwise from 20% of full scale to full scale

• Unique cam design minimizes friction due to reduced contact area between the cam and internal tube wall

• Cam retains and releases lubricant where needed, reducing friction for more accurate and repeatable torque values

• Packaged with certificate of calibration

• Rugged, trouble-free performance

• Sealed ratchet heads keep out dirt and moisture, while being virtually maintenance-free

• 50-250 ft-lb

1/2" Drive SAE Adjustable Click-Type Fixed Ratchet Torque Wrench (50–250 ft-lb)
QD3R250A
$450.00


 

I will sell the Snap-On 1/2" Drive Torque Wrench for  $200

If a person would buy all three at the above prices, they would be getting 3 for the price of  athe New version 2505 Torque Wrench, which replaces the ATD109.  The ATD 109 is more sought after than the newer version!

Like

I always retorque too, doesn't  take much and give you the insurance it was done right!

 

Edited by RedSectorA
misspelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, birdshill123 said:

Truck wheels coming off is not unusual. In Ontario Canada they have hundreds every year. But mostly dump trucks

Those are mostly axle failures

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, cbr046 said:

What you could do is tighten a lug nut with a conventional torque wrench, note the torque then put the torque wrench to the multiplier and see what it takes to move the lug.  THAT would be your baseline setting.  If you can torque your lugs to 250 ft-lbs conventionally and it takes 10 ft-lbs to move it any more with the multiplier then 20 ft-lbs would get you (pretty reasonably) at 500 ft-lbs.

Of course, this is just theory . . . . .

- bob

That's not going to be accurate.
Once a fastener is torqued, it takes significantly more torque to move it further.
Also, the torque multiplier's internal friction is unlikely to be linear. As the amount of torque increases, the friction will as well.

The only way to properly get those figures would be with a calibrated torque gauge on the output, and measure what it takes on the input to reach the desired torque.
This would, of course, only be valid for that particular torque value.
 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love all the input I have received.  I tried an experiment today to see what would happen with 125 foot pound torque wrench and the digital torque gauge.  I am going on vacation (flying) so I don't have time to do any more work on it.  I will get back into it after new years.  I hope everyone on this site has a great Christmas and a better New Year.  Thanks for all the info.

Don Genesse

04 Camelot

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...