Time to buy some batteries - Looking for input

[VinceB]

35 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

I'd use POR-15 to coat the bay.
It's designed to work over rusty metal.  Just wire brush any loose or scaly rust, clean thoroughly and paint with POR-15.
It sets rock hard, has great adhesion, and stands up well to abrasion and chemicals.

Thanks.

[Tom Cherry]

13 hours ago, VinceB said:

Looks identical to my battery bay. Those caps on the Trojans are horrible imho. They let acid out before I had a chance to re-install the watering kit and now I have a huge clean up to do. OR my new batteries were over filled. 

Either way I need to recoat my bay. Does anyone have a good suggestion what to use for that?

The Battery Miser Caps are the usual choice.  I know that many prefer the “no fuss, no mess” watering systems.  However, they have to be adjusted or installed correctly, or so says what I read in the instructions.

What I use, for my Trojans, is the Medium caps.  You screw in.  Then use both thumbs and snap closed.  You can rotate the caps for the easiest orientation for opening.  Look them up on Amazon.

As to filling.  I solved that.  You need a wooden dowel, hardwood is better. Maybe 1/2” diameter.  6” long is plenty.  I keep mine in the plastic sleeve with my hydrometer.  Pull off a cap.  Drop in the dowel until it is seated on the plates.  Mark the top of the dowel where it contacts the top of the cell (where you screw in the cap).  Now, use a flashlight and lower the cap into the cell.  If you have older Trojan’s, there is a well or bottom.  Align the bottom of the dowel with the bottom or close to it….then make another mark on the dowel.  The distance between the two marks is the distance from the top of the plates to the bottom of the fill well.  Halve that….add 1/16”.  Then cut a groove into the dowel that distance from the end.  Mine is around 1/2 - 5/8”.  Use that as a DIPSTICK.  Very easy.  Just use a paper towel to wipe clean.  It is easy to add a smidge and then retest.  I would find a 16 OZ disposable bottled water container that has a on/off squirt nozzle that you fold down.  You will soon learn how long to squeeze based on how much the level has dropped.

With the Battery Miser caps, I add less than 1/4” or so every 6 months….the caps are a “distillation style” design and they let the electrolyte condense and drop back in. YES….overfilling is the number one cause of corroded trays.  Trust me….I did.  I then converted and used my dipstick rather than eyeballing and put one the caps. Refinished my tray maybe 8 years ago….no reoccurring paint peeling.

 

[Tom Wallis]

The plastic sleeve in the battery fill hole is there to indicate the full level. The slots allow it to breath even when full. Unlike regular batteries, deep cycle and golf cart batteries have more room between that sleeve and the plates so they are more forgiving about low water. You should never let the water get below the top of the plates. I don't have any special caps and I only check my golf cart batteries every 4 to 6 months and they are never down to the plates.

[Tom Cherry]

34 minutes ago, Tom Wallis said:

The plastic sleeve in the battery fill hole is there to indicate the full level. The slots allow it to breath even when full. Unlike regular batteries, deep cycle and golf cart batteries have more room between that sleeve and the plates so they are more forgiving about low water. You should never let the water get below the top of the plates. I don't have any special caps and I only check my golf cart batteries every 4 to 6 months and they are never down to the plates.

Thanks for the comment. Excellent picture. My eagle eyes are not as sharp as before.  Trojan techsupport told me  to keep the level midway below the lip or bottom of the full and the plates and that overfilling was detrimental to the battery….obviously not as much as running dry, and that gassing and corrosion was the result of overfilling.  From the Trojan user guide….it warns about exposing plates and so forth….and finally says…..

If the electrolyte level is barely covering the plates, add distilled or de-ionized water to a level 1/8” (3 mm) below the vent well (this is the plastic shield inside the vent hole) for standard batteries and to the maximum (MAX) level indicator for Plus SeriesTM batteries

OK….past that….TROJAN did give out a freebie “level” gauge at some shows but I could not find one.  My midpoint plus 1/16” is my rule of thumb and works for me. I never could figure out how low 1/8” was.  I had issues when I kept the level barely below the lower lip. With the water saver Battery Miser Caps and twice per year PM and my dipstick…no issues….

Whatever work for your eyes and keeps the level up without excess gassing and also electrolyte damage….

[Martinvz]

I use a different solution that does not need frequent addition of water and is very easy to visually check. These caps have worked well for me and allow addition of water when needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Watering-Monitors-Batteries-Filling/dp/B074P9FL1S/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=DJ8HCUDV5YX5&keywords=Battery+Caps+with+Water+Level+Monitors+for+Batteries&qid=1671220270&s=automotive&sprefix=battery+caps+with+water+level+monitors+for+batteries+%2Cautomotive%2C61&sr=1-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMFJTUExQNzRNTU1BJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjE4ODQwMVBKUFU5MFhVUllROSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzQ5MjU0SVZZT0hQMlVNUVIxJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

[Tom Cherry]

15 minutes ago, Martinvz said:

I use a different solution that does not need frequent addition of water and is very easy to visually check. These caps have worked well for me and allow addition of water when needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Watering-Monitors-Batteries-Filling/dp/B074P9FL1S/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=DJ8HCUDV5YX5&keywords=Battery+Caps+with+Water+Level+Monitors+for+Batteries&qid=1671220270&s=automotive&sprefix=battery+caps+with+water+level+monitors+for+batteries+%2Cautomotive%2C61&sr=1-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMFJTUExQNzRNTU1BJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjE4ODQwMVBKUFU5MFhVUllROSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzQ5MjU0SVZZT0hQMlVNUVIxJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Interesting.  A bit more complex, as on person pointed out that the floats were sometimes inaccurate.  You still have to adjust, one time only, each to the correct fill level and some commented that the floats stuck and you overfilled.

I would want to test to make sure that the “fill level”, controlled but the floats are at the recommended height for my particular brand of battery as the cap heights and distances to the plates may be different.  Cost is about the same as the Battery Water Miser caps.  Battery box requires 2 1/2” above caps….probably not an issue.

The only difference is that these, based on the ad copy elsewhere are NOT electrolyte loss reduction units like the distillation principle of the Water Miser System.  They may gas more and closer to the bottom of the tray above.  Mine are stacked, not wide open like some of the pictures.  So, in my enclosed space, the recovery of the electrolyte reduces gassing and corroding and overflowing,

This is, on the surface, a simpler system than the bulk fed ones.  Thanks for posting…..always good to see what is out there.  RVUpgrades looks cheaper, but does not included the needed squeeze bottle….

[Raymond]

Your best option would be to talk to those who install and service inverters. Reason for this suggestion being, I too intended to switch my flooded lead batteries to AGM or lithium; however after talking to the experts at Inverter Service Center I ended up replacing my flood lead batteries with flooded lead batteries. 

Ray W

2008 Dynasty

[nvrtoofast]

Thanks for all the input. A closer look at my current setup showed 4 6 volts, flooded. I don't have a lot of time to devote to the system right now so I sold out and replaced with the same.

I will mention though that the former batteries lasted 4 years with HORRIBLE maintenance. I went a year and a half with no maintenance. Fortunately, they had zero corrosion. I hope with correct maintenance the current set will go another 4 years or more. I may be upgrading to a Lipo solar set up soon though. I do love being off grid...

Thanks again!

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, nvrtoofast said:

Thanks for all the input. A closer look at my current setup showed 4 6 volts, flooded. I don't have a lot of time to devote to the system right now so I sold out and replaced with the same.

I will mention though that the former batteries lasted 4 years with HORRIBLE maintenance. I went a year and a half with no maintenance. Fortunately, they had zero corrosion. I hope with correct maintenance the current set will go another 4 years or more. I may be upgrading to a Lipo solar set up soon though. I do love being off grid...

Thanks again!

Cheap investment is a set of 12 Battery Miser Water Miser caps from Amazon.  They cover up a lot of sins.

Remember that many members here have opted to add auxiliary charging or just abandoned their Magnum or Trace as the electronic sophistication needed to get the true long life and benefits from Lithium was never built in and the charging rate and performance and when to start and when to stop is not there.

 

[Frank McElroy]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:51 AM, Tom Cherry said:

OK….past that….TROJAN did give out a freebie “level” gauge at some shows but I could not find one.  My midpoint plus 1/16” is my rule of thumb and works for me. I never could figure out how low 1/8” was.  I had issues when I kept the level barely below the lower lip. With the water saver Battery Miser Caps and twice per year PM and my dipstick…no issues….

Whatever work for your eyes and keeps the level up without excess gassing and also electrolyte damage….

Here are pictures of the Trojan "level" gauge 

[Tom Cherry]

2 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Here are pictures of the Trojan "level" gauge 

Works for me.  My dipstick uses the plates as a “stop” and the fill to midpoint level (memory) is 5/8” from the tip.  I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that if Frank dropped in a wooden dowel and it rested on the plates…the liquid level on the dowel would be around 5/8” up….assuming….and I know his T105’s are filled exactly per his gauge and are within a mm of being at the midpoint of the MIN and MAX levels….

All I can say…..either method.  Beats the peering and squinting….  We BOTH agree that the Yellow Battery Water Miser Caps greatly reduce electrolyte loss and gassing and corrosion….

Thank for the picture….I might make one up and see how it correlates to my cheapie dowel….LOL…

[Frank McElroy]

The purpose of the picture is to show the max/min water level measurements recommended by Trojan.

I find it easier to just remove the water misers vs opening just the top.  A lot easier for me to add water and see the plates.

FROM TOM…..

Whichever works.  The caps are sometimes hard to resnap for positive closure.  I just leave mine on and drop in my dowel and pull it out.  If the groove is “wet”….cool.  If not, I have a “user derived educated squirt” method and give the DI water bottle a squeeze.  Typically one “that’s about right” squeeze does it.

We both agree that the caps reduce electrolyte loss and our “gauges” keep the levels consistent….and we both only add less than an OUNCE ever 4-6 months….

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Tom Cherry
Text got in wrong place

[RoadTripper2084]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:15 AM, nvrtoofast said:

Thanks for all the input. A closer look at my current setup showed 4 6 volts, flooded. I don't have a lot of time to devote to the system right now so I sold out and replaced with the same.

I will mention though that the former batteries lasted 4 years with HORRIBLE maintenance. I went a year and a half with no maintenance. Fortunately, they had zero corrosion. I hope with correct maintenance the current set will go another 4 years or more. I may be upgrading to a Lipo solar set up soon though. I do love being off grid...

Thanks again!

Understandable, you need a bit of time (and $) to complete a proper upgrade to lithium.  Once you do, there's no going back. 🙂

 

[VinceB]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:57 PM, dl_racing427 said:

...

I'd use POR-15 to coat the bay.
It's designed to work over rusty metal.  Just wire brush any loose or scaly rust, clean thoroughly and paint with POR-15.
It sets rock hard, has great adhesion, and stands up well to abrasion and chemicals.

 

Received the POR-15 today.  Went to coat the bay and it has a plastic liner. The walls are coated metal however.

Have you a plastic liner too? If so, did you use the POR-15 on it?

[Tom Cherry]

19 minutes ago, VinceB said:

 

Received the POR-15 today.  Went to coat the bay and it has a plastic liner. The walls are coated metal however.

Have you a plastic liner too? If so, did you use the POR-15 on it?

My Camelot did not have a plastic liner and I used Rustoleum bed liner and it worked great.  But the Battery Miser Water caps prevents gassing and overflowing.  Prevention trumps improved coatings

[dl_racing427]

4 hours ago, VinceB said:

 

Received the POR-15 today.  Went to coat the bay and it has a plastic liner. The walls are coated metal however.

Have you a plastic liner too? If so, did you use the POR-15 on it?

I doubt that POR-15 would stick to plastic.
It will work well on the metal though.

Is the plastic removable?
If so, I'd remove it and paint anything underneath it, then just clean the plastic and reinstall.

[VinceB]

30 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

I doubt that POR-15 would stick to plastic.
It will work well on the metal though.

Is the plastic removable?
If so, I'd remove it and paint anything underneath it, then just clean the plastic and reinstall.

I haven't had a chance to take a good look to see if the liner is removable. But I assume that it would be. I'll have to remove all 6 batteries to make certain.

If I can get it out I will but this has to wait until the holidays are behind us.

[Martinvz]

On my coach there is a plastic tray for the batteries and I removed it before sanding and spraying rust converter. I followed this with a gloss (black) and then with a hard textured bed liner. It has held up very well and still looking good after 6 or more years.

I believe the POR reacts with ferrous oxide (rust) and should not react with the plastic, but what do I know. That said, I would not expect the POR to bond to the plastic and removing the plastic would be my recommendation.

[Steven P]

My plastic liner was removable.  After prepping and painting all the metal, I didn't like the rust stains on my liner and wanted a cleaner look so I sprayed mine.  Mine is coated in Ace hardware spray on bedliner. 

[Fountdf]

(This was a NEW topic....INTERSTATE BATTERIES NOT TAKING A CHARGE.  Member picked up that it was similar to this top and should be merged.  That has been done)

 

I purchased a set(4) of Interstate 6 Volt Batteries in February 2021.  I think I was recalling a previous Interstate set of a few years ago when I got about 6 years service. However, Very recently while checking the Coach Batteries I noted that the Inverter was doing it's normal thing with charging, but upon checking the chassis and house battery voltages the Interstates were at 11.99 volts.  I disconnected the 110 AC input to the Inverter and connected the BatteryMinder/desulfator to the house batteries. That was 3 days ago and now the voltage is up to 12.05 volts. Since it has been so cold, I have neglected to do a battery load test, but plan to do that tomorrow when the temp is supposed to get up to 55 degrees. I don't think the temp has had any impact on the batteries since the coach is inside an insulated building with the inside temp around 40 degrees during this cold snap. I noticed other posts concerning Interstate Batteries. Does this problem sound similar to other Interstate Battery problems reported/experienced??

[Mark B]

Take them back to interstate and have them check them. If they are bad they should swap them out if they are still under warranty.

[Martinvz]

I think there was a recent post on this topic and this should be merged into that thread.

(Moderator's EDIT.  Thanks.  The original INTERSTATE BATTERIES NOT TAKING A CHARGE topic was merged into this one.  Good CATCH)

We replaced our GC Batteries with Interstate batteries but returned them to Costco after about 3 weeks as these would not hold a charge. I have seen comments from people on the lack of quality of the Interstate batteries available today. On RVDiagnostics.com is an article or YouTube video on the quality and materials used.

I replaced mine with Duracell (same as what my coach came with) and these these are not much more expensive but hold a charge much better.

Other brands to consider are Trojan (obviously), Penn, and others. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Tom Cherry
Merged Topic

[TomV48]

On 6/15/2020 at 7:56 AM, Rob and Amy Harper said:

I looked up my order, I got mine in December 2016 and they were $35 for two from Amazon. In retrospect, that's not too bad given they are dimmable and they fit perfectly into the existing holes from the halogens.

 

On 12/14/2022 at 2:35 PM, Dwight Lindsey said:

I did replace my MSW inverter with Pure Sine Wave.  I did that mostly because of a Fisher Paykel refrigerator install, which replaced the dead Norcold.

I have the DC to DC charger, but it's not installed yet.  At the moment, the alternator is only charging the chassis batteries

Dwight

Wanting to upgrade for the Pure Sine Magnum myself but as long as it works DW would have a fit at my spending another $1800.  Meanwhile, I do not know your coach and I know that there are a couple different "factory" charging arrangements from the alternator, but if the alternator is "only charging the Chassis batteries" then something it wrong.  for me it was the BIG BOY relay that was out.  It normally should have activated when receiving 12v from the Ignition Relay Delay.  The solenoid is dead (replacement cost $90 on Amazon) but I did not want alternator direct to my LiFePo 600 amp bank for fear of burning up the alternator, so I just took the hot from the Ignition Relay Delay to activate the Dc to DC which I installed with 6 ga wire all in the battery bay.  Only problem for me is when the relay kicks in, maybe too soon, an often,  the chassis battery recharging must still be pulling high alternator voltage, like over 14 v,  and the RENOGY 40-40 goes in to error mode and will never reset itself. So I have wait a while then go to the battery bay and disconnect the Renogy from both sides of the charger, with the DC breakers I installed on both sides of the device.  Then pause briefly and flip back on to re-energize and my batteries start to charge fine for the rest of the day.  Moral of story, I am not liking the Renogy DC -DC like I should and their tech guy was, LET ME BE POLITE and say NOT HELPFUL.  Cause that sounds nicer than saying,  an IDIOT BROKEN RECORD of stupid answers, like oh no YOU HAVE TO COMPLETELY REMOVE THE POWER WIRES FROM BOTH SIDES AND THEN REINSTALL and that will fix your problem.  Like he did not know enough electricity to understand that pulling it out of the circuit with breakers on both sides was the same as disconnecting it.

Edited December 27, 2022 by TomV48

[Dwight Lindsey]

Tom:

My 2005 Knight did not come equipped to charge the house batteries from the alternator.  I guess they left quite a few things out on the Knight, which were standard on the Diplomat.  Somehow they needed to justify the price difference between the Knight and the Diplomat.

A long long time ago I added a small circuit board on the main board in the run bay, which energized the "batt boost" relay in the battery bay to connect the two banks.  There is some logic on that small board that starts charging the house batteries when the voltage on the chassis batteries shows them to be charged.  I can't use that anymore, because the 3 Lithium Ion Phosphate batteries I have installed for the house, will each soak up 100 amps . . . therefore the need for the DC to DC charger . . . i wasn't aware of the need for re-set on the Renogy that you mentioned . . . I'll look out for that issue.

I recently replaced the "batt boost" relay (big boy?) in the battery bay, with a blue sea, which is not yet hooked up to a switch by the driver.  It's manually set to off at the moment.  I'll get around to sorting out how to get that remotely switched later.  Meanwhile, in case of need, i can switch it manually in the battery bay.

Dwight

[Tom Cherry]

7 minutes ago, TomV48 said:

 

Wanting to upgrade for the Pure Sine Magnum myself but as long as it works DW would have a fit at my spending another $1800.  Meanwhile, I do not know your coach and I know that there are a couple different "factory" charging arrangements from the alternator, but if the alternator is "only charging the Chassis batteries" then something it wrong.  for me it was the BIG BOY relay that was out.  It normally should have activated when receiving 12v from the Ignition Relay Delay.  the solenoid is dead so I just took the hot from the Ignition Relay Delay to activate the Dc to DC which I installed with 6 ga wire all in the battery bay.  Only problem for me is when the relay kicks in, sometimes the chassis battery recharging it still pulling high voltage and the RENOGY 40-40 goes in to error mode and will never reset itself so I have to go to the battery bay and disconnect it from both sides of the charger, with the DC breakers I installed on both sides of the device.  then re-energize and my batteries start to charge fine for the rest of the day.  Moral of story, I am not liking the Renogy DC -DC like I should and their tech guy was LET ME BE POLITE and say NOT HELPFUL.  Cause that sounds nicer and an IDIOT BROKEN RECORD of stupid answers.

Comment and maybe you misspoke.  The Typical Battery Boost 200 Amp Big Boy is NOT designed to "Take 12 VDC and stay engaged".  The coil is designed for BRIEF doses of FULL 12 VDC.  If it was wired incorrectly (factory or some later person), then it failed due to negligence.  The Big Boy is designed to work from a separate control board or a BIRD Diesel2 module. On the Dynasties and above, there is a separate control Intellitec board.  The relay (Solenoid) is given a quick shot of 12 VDC (like you would with the boost switch).  If the battery voltage differentials are met and there is charging needed, either way, then that signal is PULSED (I think) on the Dynasty.  The result is a reduced voltage signal.  That is called the HOLDING VOLTAGE.  If is typically, if you measured it with a VOM, in the 3 - 8 (or maybe lower top end) VDC range.  That voltage will keep the Big Boy Coil engaged or energized and the coil is not damaged.  

On the later lower food chain, like my Camelot, there is an Intellitec BIRD (Diesel2) Module.  It puts out a lower holding voltage.  Generically comparing them, as several of us have done, the Big Boy "Hums and Heats up LESS" using the Intellitec BIRD Module than the Dynasty Intellitec control module....as the Dynasty puts out, a "pulse that reads higher" on a VOM.

I don't know a LOT about the device or issues you have, but we have MANY experienced and knowledgeable electrical members that are using the Blue Seas ACR instead of the various other "BiDirectional" configurations.  It has proven to be robust and it also supports a higher continuous amperage rating.

The #6 connector, if I understand it, is a "Jumper Cable" between the two banks.  This is undersized for the application.  You can get up to or around 100+ amps from the Magnum inverters and your MH may have a 160 Amp Alternator. The #6 is rated for maybe 65/70 amps.  I actually "bypassed" my Big Boy for storage this winter as it was just sitting there and "humming".  I disconnected the BIRD Diesel2 "Solenoid" or the control wire and then used a #2 jumper between the two banks.  I have 30 amp power at my storage.  I know one other person, with an extremely high level of understanding of the systems and how they work who uses a copper "Tube" between the Big Boy contacts and disconnects the control lead so the Big Boy is open.

Just passing this on for your information as well as others to prevent them from thinking that you can leave a full 12 VDC on the Big Boy.  You CANNOT....it will burn UP....as many have found out by "Wedging" a golf "Tee" under the spring loaded Boost Switch.

Thanks....