Wet bay heater and fan

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Jdw12345 said:

Thanks Tom.

 My BIL has a 18 Holiday Rambler and he doesn’t think he has a basement heater, it’s an Endeavor XE, I assumed it did but maybe not.

If there is a SYSTEM HEAT SWITCH and a PILOT light next to it he has it. What year is it.  Monaco was pretty consistent in that as a standard feature, but without the year, you can’t look it up.  NOW, if it is a new to him then someone could have removed the heater if it didn’t work.

he can browse here as a guest and read the topics and look at the pictures but can’t download files or comment.  We encourage you to take his as a “little brother” and mentor him as a new member.

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, Jdw12345 said:

Thanks Tom.

 My BIL has a 18 Holiday Rambler and he doesn’t think he has a basement heater, it’s an Endeavor XE, I assumed it did but maybe not.

A 2018 model is quite different then the Monaco coaches of the past.  So your BIL rig may not have a wet bay heater, if he did it would be visible. 

[Larry Maida]

On 2/18/2023 at 4:49 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Error please disregard the above about Tom Cherry.....hit wrong button and cant erase it.

Thank you all for the help, I just want to explain where I was coming from.

OK so the Monaco installed heater has a dial on the front that I thought was to set "How Hot' before it shut off and it would work through the Bosch relay and yes power would stay on until the switch was turned off.  I wanted to do away with any kind of external thermostat.  Example I have a small standalone ac powered ceramic heater.  I was in my coach Christmas week and the temps were 18 at night and 28 during the day.  I put this ceramic heater in the water bay, plugged it in and let it run.  It had a dial to set how hot.  I used it for a week, never touched it.  I was hoping with a small modification I could do the same thing with the heater that is currently installed which is 12v.  I would only be using the heater while plugged in or on generator.  Does any of that make sense or should I just pull out the factory and use the portable which is about the same size?

I do thank all of you for taking the time.....I am not that good with electronics.

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, Larry Maida said:

Thank you all for the help, I just want to explain where I was coming from.

OK so the Monaco installed heater has a dial on the front that I thought was to set "How Hot' before it shut off and it would work through the Bosch relay and yes power would stay on until the switch was turned off.  I wanted to do away with any kind of external thermostat.  Example I have a small standalone ac powered ceramic heater.  I was in my coach Christmas week and the temps were 18 at night and 28 during the day.  I put this ceramic heater in the water bay, plugged it in and let it run.  It had a dial to set how hot.  I used it for a week, never touched it.  I was hoping with a small modification I could do the same thing with the heater that is currently installed which is 12v.  I would only be using the heater while plugged in or on generator.  Does any of that make sense or should I just pull out the factory and use the portable which is about the same size?

I do thank all of you for taking the time.....I am not that good with electronics.

First.  Jim is correct.  I downloaded the 2018 owners manual and there is, to the best of my “thorough scanning”, NO heater nor switches for turning on or using the old Monaco Cargo Heater.  

Second..  you need to read the posts or topics and look at the pictures.  YOUR OEM Monaco heater is NOT the same as the “later” models.  Yours says “back seat heater”.  Therefore you don’t have the dreaded unreliable Cargo Heater or the tan/brown box that is typical not visible. Please read the manual starting at page 180 or so.  It is quite descriptive.

BUT…to simplify the understanding and also let you know how the “electronics works”…here goes. Your system DOES work like I described,  You DO have a System Heat switch and the ON or IN USE Pilot light.  For your heater to work, you MUST turn on the System Heat Switch.  Otherwise….it ain’t gonna come on,

There is the SAME snap disc type thermostat that gets power from the System Heat switch.  The Thermostat is nothing more than a “On/Off” of a “light switch”.  So when the switch is ON and the temperature drops down (in theory) to 40 (+/- 6 per your manual)….then there is power.  The thermostat has a much wider band than some later ones.  The anal disc is SUPPOSED to turn off or shut off power or signal to the heater when it hits 56 (+/-6].  That means that the snap disc could come on as low as 34 and then stay on until 62.  That is a heck of a spread.  So you understand WHY awe are critical of the snap disc and it being highly imprecise.

NOW, your heater has more options.  There is a function switch.  One side runs the fan only and the other runs the heater and the fan.  This is described in the manual as to which one to use.  Next up is the built in thermostat.  The SNAP DISC is supposed to be where the heat is needed….not at the heate.  Yes, you do have an adjustable thermostat….but the manual is not clear as to what the calibration or settings are.  BUT, the bad news is….that Thermostat is to control the heat where it is needed.  Bypassing it or removing it would be easy.  I would hazard a guess that maybe there are TWO different 12 VDC supplies.  The heater might have a much larger (fused) line to run the heating element.  The switch is typically not rated for the current that the heaters need.  Without seeing the schematic or the prints, I don’t know,..

BUT regardless, the place you need heat has the thermostat and the one on the heater don’t know,  That may be shy Monaco went to the basic box,  Your heater was designed for a ‘50 low end car what did not have much of a heating system and had no way to get heated air to the back seat….  That is why it is called Back Seat Heat Plus…

If you really wanted to simplify things…..keep usin your ceramic heater.  BUT go to Amazon and buy one of 120 volt Freeze Protection Receptacles.  This is a module that plugs into an outlet or an extension cord.  It has a thermostat inside it.  When the temperature around the module drops to below the “set point”, then power goes to the heater or the heat trace tape or whatever.  When it hits the high end, it turns off.  There are a bunch on Amazon…..some as low as 32 degrees.  Most are in the 35/40 ON and 45/50 Off.  Slide that module and the power cord back up under the panel to where the water pump is or where the Snap Disc is and let it turn ON and OFF the Ceramic heater.

Hope this helps clear it ou….really surprised Monaco (Rev) dropped the Freeze Protextion.  Maybe they got enough complaints about the stupid cargo heater that they just cut costs and dropped it….
 

 

[jacwjames]

I used a 120 volt ceramic type heater in my basement where the water pump and manifold is located, this is not heated by the wet bay heater.  I was living in my rig in Northern Michigan starting in late March 2011, still lots of snow on the ground and at night temps would get in the teens.  I was concerned about thing freezing.

So I securely fastened the ceramic heater to a heavy tool box and then used a EasyHeat Freeze free outlet.  https://www.lowes.com/pd/EasyHeat-Freeze-Free-Pipe-Heat-Cable-Controller/1060249

Worked great.  I put a remote temp sensor in the passenger side of the wet bay and temps stayed above 40F.  The heater also helped keep the basement warm which in turn helped the living area.  I also used a electric heater there. 

But it got cold and I was reluctant to rely completely on the LP Furnace since I was traveling away from the coach and I didn't want to have to get propane frequently.  Some mornings it would be ~35F in the living area.  Slept under several heavy blankets.  I survived but wasn't fun.

 

[Larry Maida]

Thank you gentlemen.  I have a plan and an understanding which I did not have prior.  Be well and safe.

[Matt Lavender]

On 1/1/2023 at 5:28 AM, Tom Cherry said:

 

My only advice…..if you have NOT upgraded your Cargo Heater (electric toaster), then download the file and do it…..assuming you might need it.  Otherwise, buy a metal trouble light and get a 60 watt bulb and a plug in freeze protection thermostat….

Good Luck…

Tom,

I've got the "toaster heater" and it still works. Any issues with keeping it in the wet bay?

Thanks

 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Matt Lavender said:

Tom,

I've got the "toaster heater" and it still works. Any issues with keeping it in the wet bay?

Thanks

 

It need to be TESTED.  When the Thermal One Shot as the call it goes, the FAN still runs.  SO, when the temp drops, you hear it....but there is no 12 VDC going to the heater.  IF you have the AquaHot...and assuming it is wired like mine, it will come on automatically and you will never see the System Heat come on.  BUT that also assumes that you have the Diesel on.  The Electric will work, but obviously the Diesel generates way more heat.  Some have had success with that and keep the bay protected with 30 amp 120 VAC.  But, the Temps MAY drop down low enough for the Cargo or System heat to come on.....and then, it may work or may not.

Typically, folks only get a few "runs" out of the heater as the heat builds up....there is an Internal thermostat that controls that....and eventually the heater itself gets hot internally and the One Shot blows.

The simple way to test....without dipping the thermostat into ice water, is to find the Thermostat (mine has purple wires and if hanging in the wet bay where you access it from the back bay where the pump it.  

Pull it out or take a paper clip and short across the contacts of the terminals.  Then leave it on.  It will cycle a few times.  IF it is throwing out HEATED air....it is working.  BUT, if it is just blowing out ambient air....the heater coil is dead.

That's the best advice I can give you.  This problem was around at least two years before your MH was built.  NOW, knowing Monaco.....they "LOST STUFF"  If a pre 2005/6 heater got tossed into a cubby or lost behind a few pallets of stuff and then they found it and yours is an older one, then it will probably work.  There does NOT appear to be any date (best I can recall....it's been a while) on them....so there is no easy check.

Good Luck...  Trust. but VERIFY....

[Matt Lavender]

Tested and it still blows heat when jumpering the thermostat purple wires. Thanks for all your info always.  

 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Matt Lavender said:

Tested and it still blows heat when jumpering the thermostat purple wires. Thanks for all your info always.  

 

Glad to be of help.  MAYBE someone fixed it or you have an older one.  I would test it periodically to make sure the HEAT is working.  Good Luck....and THANK You for the compliment...