Fuel Additive

[Luther Taylor]

Should I be using an additive in fuel?

Cummins 330 ISC

02 Monaco Diplomat 

[RVSSNAKE]

I use Diesel Kleen about every other fill up, one quart per 100 gal.

Walmart usually has it at a good price.

Seems to make it run smoother and with a little extra power.

It was recommended to me by a fellow 2000 Diplomat 8.3 ISC owner on iRV2.

I would say try it on a couple of tanks and if you don't notice any difference then stop using it.

I am not an expert so I hold no liability for any issues that may arise from the use, I just know it seems to have helped mine.

[Luther Taylor]

Thanks, will give it a try. 

[Dennis H]

Kinda depends on where you fuel up. Water in diesel is never good. Cummins does not recommend using any additive. If you fuel up at Flying J, Loves, TA etc. you most likely won't have any fuel issues because of their large turnover of fuel and they have filters on every pump. That said, I pass on stations that are filling up their tanks from their transport trucks as the introduction of new fuel into those underground tanks stirs up a lot of sediment into the fuel you could be putting into your coach.  I'm assuming you know how to drain the water from your fuel system. If not, please ask. This is something every diesel driver should know but is rarely covered. Also, if your coach is to be sitting for a bit, make sure your fuel tank is full to minimize condensation (water) build up inside the tank. I use 9.1.1. available at Wally World or any parts store, every fourth tank or so. Other than that, I don't use anything. Over 100,000 miles on my coach.....Denniis

[Dr4Film]

I've been using a mixture of Diesel Kleen and Biobor JF for years now. Not necessarily every fill up but I always do when I plan to park the coach for an extended time after filling the tank prior to parking.

[Luther Taylor]

25 minutes ago, Dennis H said:

Kinda depends on where you fuel up. Water in diesel is never good. Cummins does not recommend using any additive. If you fuel up at Flying J, Loves, TA etc. you most likely won't have any fuel issues because of their large turnover of fuel and they have filters on every pump. That said, I pass on stations that are filling up their tanks from their transport trucks as the introduction of new fuel into those underground tanks stirs up a lot of sediment into the fuel you could be putting into your coach.  I'm assuming you know how to drain the water from your fuel system. If not, please ask. This is something every diesel driver should know but is rarely covered. Also, if your coach is to be sitting for a bit, make sure your fuel tank is full to minimize condensation (water) build up inside the tank. I use 9.1.1. available at Wally World or any parts store, every fourth tank or so. Other than that, I don't use anything. Over 100,000 miles on my coach.....Denniis

I always fill up at the Larger Truck stops and do drain my filters pretty regularly. 
Have used Diesel 911.  Because of a  water problem. 
Just wondering if I’m doing things right or should b doing more. 

[Tom Cherry]

I was told by Cummins Tech Support in 2009, when they had REAL line mechanics or folks that could tear down and know issues about engines, that Cummins did NOT recommend ANY additives.  However, the Tech went on to say that most individuals with common sense and such would use JF Biobor .  Since i was in NC and would only be using in the summer season and also letting the MH sit for extended periods of time, he highly recommended it.  It was inexpensive and would save me a lot of big dollars.  I have used it with the first tankful when I took delivery of the new Camelot in January 2009.  Some 60K later....NEVER a fuel issue. 

Then, one of our members had a son who was the chief engineer on an Indy race team.  Lucas was one of their sponsors.  The team got cases of the product or all Lucas products.  They ran a test with their OTR haulers.  One ran maybe half a season without any additive.  The other used the Lucas.  Then they swapped  At the end of the season, the Lucas product had increases the MPG on both trucks (when used in it for the half season) by 0.1 -0.2 MPG.  He concluded that it was economically "neutral" but that it would certainly do no harm.  He had an extensive background in paving equipment and ran a fleet of 10 - 15 large dump trucks and did all his own PM.  So, he was not exactly a Johnny come lately.

I ran that and got about the same results.  I switched, based on another member's advice to a different product.  Later,  Chris Throgmartin endorsed the Opti-Lube.  I am running it now.

I have four (4) 32 oz Lucas bottles calibrated on the side.  I premix the JF Biobor with the Opti-Lube.  I dose it based on 2 oz per 10 gallons of fuel.  I might have seen a bump when I switched from the Lucas and can see a little now with the Opti-lube.  I switched during my last long trip (9K in 2018).  My mileage is good, considering.  I have calculated it every which way.  You can not prove (nor disprove) that it is an economic wash. 

NOW....I am using an 80% dosage (2 oz per 10 gallons versus the recommended 2.5 oz).  My logic is that is probably OK and I always overdose as it is hard to be exact without using a laboratory pippet or a graduated cylinder.  The amount of JF Biorbor is miniscule.  So, my "Kentucky Windage" formula is close enough and I tend to overdose by at least 10%. 

Bottom line....  The normal dosage will treat 528 gallons of fuel.  That is about $1450 of fuel @ $2.75 per gallon.  That gallon of Opti-Lube is around $80.  So, you add 5% to your fuel cost.  Looking at it another way,  the 528 gallons probably will get you around 4,000 or so miles.  That is $80 of protection for the "season" if you are close to average. 

I think it is worth the cost.  Others may not.  Again, I can see a small uptick in my mileage and I know that I am treating for Algae and hopefully improving the life of the engine or maybe preventing repairs.  I think that the additive is more critical for we MH owners as we do not run our engines like most diesels are designed to run.  We let them sit for long periods. 

If you have ever owned a "Little old lady who only drove to church" car, you probably KNOW that seals and funking engine issue abound.  I made sure my mom's car was properly maintained, but when she passed and I gave it to my son.... admittedly he drove it sparingly, it was a world of hurts and had seals and such issues. 

That's my take....

[a4epilot]

Cummins DOES endorse 2 fuel additives.

Information on their website.

Gary K

[Luther Taylor]

Thank you. 

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, a4epilot said:

Cummins DOES endorse 2 fuel additives.

Information on their website.

Gary K

I should have added a TAG LINE.  In 2009, Cummins did not MARKET any additives....therefore they did NOT endorse any.  NOW, they have their own brand and type.  

Personally, the JF Biobor is the cheapest insurance policy to prevent Algae you will ever get.  As to the Opti-Lube....I will continue to use it and stand by my original post....but one has to make the call theirselves...

There is one other really good product....for SPECIALTY situations.  It is the StarTron StarBrite Diesel additive.  It is used when you have potential algae issues.  There was a fellow Camelot owner that fulltimed and never worried about Algae.  He got shut down one day.  He changed the filters.  OK....  He then got shut down TWICE with his Genny.

Never figured out if it was an Algae bloom or bad fuel.  He DID use the StarTron treatment.  If you have Algae or if you don't know and you do have....especially a heavy buildup....any Algaecide will kill it.  OPPS....now you got real issues of gunk in the tank.  It was in suspension before...now is is a glob.  The StarTron has an aerobic digester that will "eat" the critters.  

SO, if you shock treat a tank that has never been treated, it is a good idea to add the StarTron to make sure that nothing that was in suspension is now precipitated and floating around.

The Diesel (as well as gas) Boaters swear by the StarTron.  It gets rave reviews.  If you want to dump some money.....then have a pumping and filtering service clean your tanks.  A LOT of folks also have had to steam clean the tanks due to the Pre ULSD fuel.  The fuel acted as a solvent and there was gunk and varnish.  NOT good for filters, pumps or injectors.

NOW....put that engine in a boat and have a mobile service come to you...the folks with such rigs can charge what they want as it is very specialized.....then think about pumping out your tank, steam cleaning it.....drying or getting rid of the moisture and refilling a boat or a such.  MEGA $$....  That is why the boater love the StarTron.  BUT, they ALL use the Biobor (or do afterwards).

The Opti-Lube and the others (Lucas, et al), UNLESS they are specially formulated....will NOT take care of Algae.  That is why you need a dual system (like I mix mine) IF you want to treat the "Engine" with additional lubrication....and also treat the fuel to prevent Algae issues...

Hope this clarifies it....

[a4epilot]

Cummins endorsed additives are not their products.

Diesel Fuel Supplement® +Cetane Boost & Diesel Kleen® +Cetane Boost are produced by Power Service Diesel Additives of Weatherford, TX.

They have been around long before Cummins made their endorsement and are avaliable many places including Truck Stops and Walmart.

The above is the best information I could find and in the end it really doesn't matter who makes it, as long as it works. I have to believe it does some good or Cummins wouldn't endorse as they have stayed away from such actions in the past.

I've been using it since their endorsement a year or two ago, as I recall. There really is no practical way to know if it is worth the money and effort until maybe an engine tear down which I hope I never experience. I don't track my mileage that accurately because it makes no difference as I'm going to make the trips regardless plus there is no way I could possibly tell if the engine is producing more power.

Considering the cost of the engine, the overall cost of maintaining and operating my coach, the additional possible protection is worth it, for me.

Gary K

 

 

 

[cpat_39]

Our engine is 2000 Cummins ISC 315. I started using Diesel Kleen when I got some bad diesel in AK several years ago. Stopped using for a few months and then picked up a load of 20% bio at a Flying J and engine ran so bad I stopped and put Diesel Kleen in tank. Took about 15 miles but engine smoothed out and I have used DK with every tank since. That incident was 8 years ago.

BTW, IMHO you should avoid Bio Diesel whenever you can. Your engine and mine I was told in a Cummins seminar was not made to run Bio. In California all Diesel by law must have 4.75% Bio, but there are many stations that carry Diesel #2 instead of Bio Diesel. To my knowledge all Flying J and Pilot are now only BioDiesel and that can be up to 20% Bio. 

Pat C

Quote

 

 

[Steve Hepfer]

I have been using Howes Diesel Meaner Cleaner for 3 or 4 years. It is designed to remove moister and keep your injectors clean. One quart will treat about 330 gallons and it has helped with mileage. I currently average 10 mpg with my 400 ISL.

[cpat_39]

Steve, Thank you for the tip. Being stored indoors and in California moistures has not been an issue for me. Most of the time I arrive at storage with about 25 gallons. Storage has a company that comes out and delivers diesel #2 to our coaches if we have at least 4 coaches needing fuel. Fuel company provides diesel to fleets of buses so I am comfortable it is fresh. 

Our ISC typically gets 8.25-8.5 mpg so I am happy with that given the lower hp and toque of ISC. 

[David White]

I just changed mine,  as I do at least annually, and have been using JF Biobor and Diesel Kleen for several years.  I don’t know for sure whether the Diesel Kleen helps, but can say the filters no longer have evidence of algae, or gel buildup.  What I did see this time was a large amount of debris in the primary filter, which tells me a regular filter change can keep you from being stranded on the road.  Fuel is not clean, so beware of where you get diesel.  I have been sticking to big truck stops, but now I’m not sure what is best. I still think a station which has a big turnover in their tanks is likely the best.

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by David White

[cpat_39]

David, I have had fuel checked a couple of times by weighted hose put to bottom of tank and have not had any signs of moisture or algae. Fuel is examined by a licensed firm for diesel liquids testing. 

I changed oil and fuel filters every 5,000 miles or 12 months. Done by a local mechanic for last 6 years. Only Cummins filters and Valvoline Premium Blue HD oil. Coach has 106,000 miles on it. Starts and runs very smoothly. I attribute much of that to the Diesel Kleen. Hate the smell, love the product.

Have a local mobile mechanic swapping out tail/stop/turn and side lights for newer taillight assemblies. Attached is photo of how we are doing so this. Could not replace original amber lens. Assemblies were off late 80's early 90's Chevy K5 Blazer and/or Suburban. Think it looks pretty good and is certainly brighter. Did headlights last year. Both tail and head lights now have LED bulbs.

 

[Luther Taylor]

I really like the looks of these. Need auto upgrade mine. 
Thanks. 

[Hotrod - R.I.P.]

On 5/27/2020 at 10:49 AM, Dennis H said:

Kinda depends on where you fuel up. Water in diesel is never good. Cummins does not recommend using any additive. If you fuel up at Flying J, Loves, TA etc. you most likely won't have any fuel issues because of their large turnover of fuel and they have filters on every pump. That said, I pass on stations that are filling up their tanks from their transport trucks as the introduction of new fuel into those underground tanks stirs up a lot of sediment into the fuel you could be putting into your coach.  I'm assuming you know how to drain the water from your fuel system. If not, please ask. This is something every diesel driver should know but is rarely covered. Also, if your coach is to be sitting for a bit, make sure your fuel tank is full to minimize condensation (water) build up inside the tank. I use 9.1.1. available at Wally World or any parts store, every fourth tank or so. Other than that, I don't use anything. Over 100,000 miles on my coach.....Denniis

Since biodiesel degrades pretty quickly, maybe in beginning to make gummy bear bugs after a couple months, Cummins was actually recommended Diesel Kleen and as far as I know ,  still is. 
 

Ive been using it for about 15 years and think it’s a good product. They have one now that has some green writing on the bottle for bio. I use biobohr a couple times a year too. 

https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2017/05/10/cummins-inc-officially-recommends-power-service-diesel-kleen-cetane-and

Edited May 30, 2020 by Hotrod

[Luther Taylor]

Thanks 

[Dennis H]

5 hours ago, Hotrod said:

Since biodiesel degrades pretty quickly, maybe in beginning to make gummy bear bugs after a couple months, Cummins was actually recommended Diesel Kleen and as far as I know ,  still is. 
 

Ive been using it for about 15 years and think it’s a good product. They have one now that has some green writing on the bottle for bio. I use biobohr a couple times a year too. 

https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2017/05/10/cummins-inc-officially-recommends-power-service-diesel-kleen-cetane-and

I would have to agree with you. As refineries continue to 'dumb down' fuels in the interest of 'clean air' and cheaper costs, those of us with older engines must adapt and respond to the "fruits of their labors".  Biodiesel may help someone, somewhere, (I'm not a scientist nor an accountant) but it's a dirty fuel and needs us to help clean it so our engines perform as we expect them to....Dennis

[Jim McGarvie]

This discussion has been very interesting to me, and I have invested in a couple of additives to try. A couple of questions:

Some of my boating buddies highly recommend PRI-D, and I haven't seen that mentioned for use in our motorhomes. Any thoughts?

Also, what tricks have you come up with for adding additives to your tank? Some bottles and some fuel fillers don't seem very compatible.

Thanks.

Jim

[cpat_39]

Jim, I am not an expert on additives. Just have had good success with Diesel Kleen. I did Googled Pri D and see a price of $263.40 for 12 16 oz bottles to treat 256 gallons per bottle for $21.95 a bottle. I buy the DK bottle at Walmart for about $17.00. Amazon has 512 gallon treatment bottle for $45.68. Both places were out of stock on Pri D Camping World had 256 gallon treatment listed for $28.88 and was also out of stock. Could not find any evaluations or comparisons. Had good success with DK before Cummins recommended and it still does the job well for me. The reviews of Pri D seemed to praise it more for stabilization of the fuel.

Our 2000 Diplomat has a vertical tank fill on passenger side. So I use a plastic funnel with flexible spout. Here is funnel I use - https://www.autozone.com/shop-and-garage-tools/funnel/flotool-flex-funnel-2-piece/52357_0_0. After use I wipe out and bend up funnel to store.  I have asked DK producer Power Serve several times to make a filler that attaches to their bottle neck. They have never responded. 

[Dr4Film]

I use this device that attaches directly to the spout of the Diesel Kleen jug. Been using it for years without spilling a drop.

https://tinyurl.com/ya5ddfua

[Jim McGarvie]

9 minutes ago, cpat_39 said:

Jim, I am not an expert on additives. Just have had good success with Diesel Kleen. I did Googled Pri D and see a price of $263.40 for 12 16 oz bottles to treat 256 gallons per bottle for $21.95 a bottle. I buy the DK bottle at Walmart for about $17.00. Amazon has 512 gallon treatment bottle for $45.68. Both places were out of stock on Pri D Camping World had 256 gallon treatment listed for $28.88 and was also out of stock. Could not find any evaluations or comparisons. Had good success with DK before Cummins recommended and it still does the job well for me. The reviews of Pri D seemed to praise it more for stabilization of the fuel.

Our 2000 Diplomat has a vertical tank fill on passenger side. So I use a plastic funnel with flexible spout. Here is funnel I use - https://www.autozone.com/shop-and-garage-tools/funnel/flotool-flex-funnel-2-piece/52357_0_0. After use I wipe out and bend up funnel to store.  I have asked DK producer Power Serve several times to make a filler that attaches to their bottle neck. They have never responded. 

Thanks, Pat. Yes, I think my boating buddies were primarily interested in stabilization, but we use our coach frequently enough that I'm not too concerned about that.

Thanks for the tip about the funnel. That should work fine.

Jim

1 minute ago, Dr4Film said:

I use this device that attaches directly to the spout of the Diesel Kleen jug. Been using it for years without spilling a drop.

https://tinyurl.com/ya5ddfua

Thanks Richard! That fits the DK jug? Cool, I already have one of those! What size DK jug do you use that the device fits?

[Dr4Film]

I always purchase the 80 oz jugs at Walmart which treats 250 gallons. I add a maintenance portion of  Biobor JF to the jug then use half of it for any fill-up. One jug treats two fill-ups.