NAMVET77 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Changed oil, filters etc a couple weeks ago and everything checked good (no leaks and engine ran fine). Couldn't get the air dryer filter (brakes) off so ordered the right size filter wrench to remove the dryer filter. Replaced it today and started up to air up the system and check for air leaks. Engine ran for 20 seconds then shout off. Now it won't start at all. Turned the key on and went back to listen to the fuel pump. The pump is running but doesn't seem like it is as loud as it use to be. Engine turns over great just no start. Not even sure exactly where the pump is. Looks like it might be on the right side of the block looking towards the back of the engine. Tried feeling everything to see if I could feel it but no joy. The coach is a 04 Camelot with the 350 ISC engine. Has about 95K miles on it. The engine has been problem free to this point. Do all the maintenance myself and am pretty handy but this one has me stumped. Not much of a diesel mech. Any help on what to check will be greatly appreciated. Leaving town Monday for a week so won't be able to get back to it until next week. TIA. Don Genesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHend Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Hope it’s not your high pressure fuel pump. Same thing happened to me, that’s what it was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McGarvie Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Hopefully it is just loss of prime. I am amazed at how tight the fuel filters have to be to prevent sucking air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMVET77 Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 I did some more research and my fault code on the dash is 418 (water in fuel). Not sure how that happened. Haven't driven the coach for a couple months and after all the servicing it ran great (didn't drive it though). Generator just ran good for an hour with a good load on it??? I will definitely change the filters as soon as I get back next weekend. More to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 If the filters work….then carry a couple for the *genny”. The Genny is more susceptible to foul fuel than the engine. StarTron StarBrite additive is used by many to do some “fuel polishing” without having to suck out and steam clean the tank. Use double the recommendation for best results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick A Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 How about draining the fuel water filter to see if it has water in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMVET77 Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 I did that and didn't see any water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhReally Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Your lift pump is located on the right side of the engine when looking at the engine timing cover at the back. It should run about 30 seconds and shut off after you turn on the key without starting. Turn on the key and get out and walk back to the rear curb wheel and listen for the pump. Do this 2 to 3 times and then try starting the engine. If it still doesn't start you could try having someone else turn on the key after you have loosened the fuel filter at the engine. Only loosen it to the point when the filter gasket lightly touches the filter mount. Turn on the key and listen for the fuel to arrive at the filter and quickly tighten it to stop leak. If the loose filter doesn't start leaking when the lift pump runs, the lift pump isn't pumping. If it isn't pumping, look for leaks in the line, as best you can see near the engine and near the fuel tank. The installed fuel lines are good quality so they should only leak where connections exist or where the lines have been damaged. If still no start, you might try mounting a fuel pressure gauge (about $25) at one of the fuel filters - there should be a plugged access hole on the filter, many stories about adding the gauge on Monaco/Holiday Rambler forums. Pressure should be about 18 PSI. If pressure checks out, the fuel supply is not the problem. -Jamie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 On my 8.3ISC the fuel pump is above the starter, you can see the top of it from bedroom hatch. I would check to see if the fuel pump is or has been leaking. This is a very common problem and the main cause of the CAPS pump failure. The leaking pump causes the system to loose prime but also will allow air into the system which is what causes the CAPS to fail. You can reach down and feel if has been leaking. If it leaks bad enough it would end up on the ground but it would take a while to see it. In late 2020 I serviced my rig and didn't see any problems. Took it for a ~60 mile drive and parked it. I intended to clean the jack stems and crawled under the rig and first thing I saw was fuel drops hitting the exhaust but not making it to the ground. YIKES. I went ahead an tightened the 3 bolts on top of the transfer pump and the leak stopped. But after thinking about I installed a FASS transfer pump and bypassed the old lift pump. Hopefully I caught mine in time, I put ~12K miles on it since seeing the leak and installing the FASS. I'd suggest checking for a leak, tighten the three bolts on top of the transfer pump, and then trying to cycle the key to prime the pump 6-8 times and then trying to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMVET77 Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Thanks Jim. I will check it when I get back next week. The coach is parked in my garage and there is a pan under the engine and trans and there are no leaks getting to the pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Let the starter crank over the engine for like 20 seconds. If it doesn't fire, give the starter 10min to cool down, then do it again. Sounds like you just got some air in the system changing filters. This should get it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMVET77 Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Thanks Ben. Lots of good information. I wish I was staying home so I could work on it. Just found the problem this afternoon. I will let everyone know what the problem was. That is predicated on fixing the problem. I am in the middle of moving too. Lots going on right now. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Byrd Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) I had similar problem a few year ago after changing fuel filters. Remove both newly installed fuel filters several times and still wasn't starting. Had another set of new filters on the shelf, filled both filters with clean fuel and installed them. Cycled the key switch several time, then cranked engine, started eight up. Just assumed that one of the filters didn't seal properly. Edited January 16, 2023 by Jim Byrd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 I wouldn't even attempt a fuel filter change without pre-filling the filter! Plus, I wouldn't change both filters at the same time, without getting the engine running for a few minutes before changing the secondary! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Byrd Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 hour ago, 96 EVO said: I wouldn't even attempt a fuel filter change without pre-filling the filter! Plus, I wouldn't change both filters at the same time, without getting the engine running for a few minutes before changing the secondary! I don't change both at the same time anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Don, How long did the engine run AFTER you changed out the fuel filters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMVET77 Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Richard, I ran the engine for 15 minutes then shut it down to check for leaks and fluid levels. The coach sat for a couple weeks until I got the filter wrench for the air brake filter. Changed that filter then started it up to check for any air leak. It ran for 20seconds or so then shut down. The fuel pump runs but isn’t as loud as it usually is. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 15 minutes after changing fuel filters pretty much rules out air in the filters unless one is not sealed completely however, you stated there were no leaks. Lift pump only runs and is useful for starting the engine only. Once the engine starts the engine fuel injection pump takes over be it a CAPS or the Common Rail system depending on what your engine has. it appears that more troubleshooting is needed to isolate the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 If you ran the coach for 15 minutes and then it sat for a couple weeks it could be the transfer pump. It might have left fuel slowly drain out and introduce air in the system. One thing you can try is removing the fuel inlet hose on your secondary filter. Get a short piece of hose made and use a container of fuel and try to start the rig by pulling the fuel out of it. If you can get it started that would point the the downstream portion of the fuel system. There was a recent post of a Country Coach owner with the same symptoms. He ended up fining a loose fitting on his primary fuel filter that let air into the system. He used a small container and hose like above and then started looking for a problem between the primary and tank and found the loose fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution NAMVET77 Posted January 22, 2023 Author Solution Share Posted January 22, 2023 Well I came back from our trip to buy a house in Kentucky. We found a nice house that meets our needs and negotiated a fair price and as soon as I sell my house in SWF we will move. Back to the subject. I took off the primary filter and it looked like there had been no fuel in it. I put some fuel in it and the water separator was leaking. I removed the water separator cleaned it, lubed the o ring, put it back together, filled it up with fuel and turned the key on to let the pump move fuel to the filters. After doing that 3 times with plenty of time between pump runs. It stated right up. Let it run for a awhile then shut it down. Waited a half hour then started right up again. Not sure why the fuel wasn't getting there because after the oil change it started up and ran for 10 to 15 minutes. Thanks to all for all your info. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, NAMVET77 said: Not sure why the fuel wasn't getting there because after the oil change it started up and ran for 10 to 15 minutes. Maybe air slowly seeping in, and fuel retreating back to the tank 🤔. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 14 hours ago, NAMVET77 said: I put some fuel in it and the water separator was leaking. Are you saying when you filled the filter it leaked out of the water drain at the bottom? It seems to me that if that drain was cracked open even slightly air could be drawn in and cause your problem. Actually just about any thing in the suction side of the fuel system is subject to air intrusion. Air intrusion is bad, it is considered by many to be the root cause of injector pump failure especially the CAPS pump . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMVET77 Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 I think when I took off the water separator I must not have put it on tight. But, it ran for 10 to 15 minutes before I shut it off to check the oil level. No leaks at that time.. After the engine shut down and I took off the primary filter and drained it, I looked into the filter with a flash light and the bottom of the filter was dry. That made me think there was no fuel getting to the filter. So, I poured fuel into the filter and fuel started to run out of the water separator. I tried to figure exactly where it was coming from and it looked like it was leaking from the threads. I took off the separator cleaned it and wiped off the o ring. Put it back on and made sure it was tight. Added fuel again and it did not leak. Cycled the pump a few times then started the engine. Ran and no leaks. Let it sit for a few hours then fired it up again. Ran good. Tried it a few more times and everything is good. I'm guessing the water separator was loose. What stumps me is there was no leak??? Don Genesse 04 Camelot 350 ISC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivylog Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 The primary filter is on the suction side of the lift pump…might syphon some fuel out with the filter off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butler built Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I would check to see if you left the old seal on the filter housing it happens then refill and retryIf no start then before i changed the pump i would check ecm fuse if it is good then I would get a comucheck fitting and a pump and try that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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