2002 Signature Alternator Replacement

[JJMonaco]

The Leece Neville alternator stopped charging the batteries again yesterday.

When I got the coach a couple of years ago I had a no-charging problem. It turned out to be the battery isolator was bad and I had to replace it to get the batteries charging.

After that, I had a couple of times over the past year where the alternator would stop charging, but for some reason after sitting for a few hours or overnight it would be charging again-- no further issues.  That became a mystery!  I thought this could be related to the ignition key switch and had planned to change out the switch.

However today I unplugged the connector going to the alternator in the engine compartment.  When I check for voltage between the three wires-red-black & yellow with the ignition key switch turned on there is no voltage.   When I check for voltage with my meter with the ground wire touching the frame and red wire to individual wires, the red wire has twelve volts + all the time, the yellow wire has 12 volts +just when I turn the ignition key is turned to the first click before engaging the starter and nothing on the black wire. I did check the input at the battery isolator and it measures 12.5 volts.  From my understanding this would indicate the alternator is bad.

Is there anything I am missing in my testing ? 

Where is the best place to get a new alternator?

Your comments and suggestions are much appreciated.

Thank You

JJ

 

[klcdenver]

I like dealing with this place. Cannot comment on your diagnostics thou.

AJ-Electric

5942 Georgia Rd

Franklin Nc 28734
Phone: 828-369-0118

Sales@AJ-ELEC.com

AJ.ELEC.SALES@gmai

[Frank Bergamo]

Best to rebuild your original. What ever you do, don’t let go of original alternator. If you buy new, rebuild old one and keep for a spare. Hope this helps.

[JJMonaco]

Thanks for the comments.  I do plan on keeping the old one.  Unfortunately in my inspection I discovered a crack in one of the feet.  Since I have not removed it yet I'm not sure if the crack is able to be repaired.

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, jjroxus said:

Thanks for the comments.  I do plan on keeping the old one.  Unfortunately in my inspection I discovered a crack in one of the feet.  Since I have not removed it yet I'm not sure if the crack is able to be repaired.

Ordinarily, I would have made the comment....BUY a new Leece-Neville....exactly the same Part Number, but have your old one rebuilt.  However, Van Williams posted a HOW TO that actually takes the mystery out of the DUVAC (Leece-Neville) mystique.....and how you can put in a CONVENTIONAL ALTERNATOR and DRIVE ON....

This is a GREAT WRITE UP and many of our more experienced and higher tech electrical folks agree with it.  SO....your OPTIONS...

Buy a NEW Replacement Leece-Neville....and it will POP right in....and should work.  That is the safest, but probably the MOST expensive.

NOW, Rebuilding is an option, but when folks say REBUILD...it MUST be quantified.  It MUST be rebuilt by a shop that FULLY UNDERSTANDS it as well as also ONLY putting in GENUINE Leece-Neville and also not just "Hey we tested this piece (diode for example).  You totally replace the DIODES as well.  The rest would be replaced anyway....  That is the caveat for REBUILDING....but you have an ISSUE....the CRACK.  NOW, if you can find a welder or machine shop that can properly repair the crack and make it structurally OK....then, I would not hesitate to have it repaired.....and you could reinstall it.

OTHER OPTION....Do what VAN did....BUT....I would also suggest that you LOOK AT UPGRADING the Boost Solenoid and putting in the Blue Seas ACR.  That way, you NOW have BIRD (Bi-Directional) Charging and a NEW BOOST SWITCH.  The only caveat here is that you DO need to add some wiring from the ACR to the Front Switch in order to get full functionality of the Blue Seas ACR.  Once done....as Van did, you have a really up to date and reliable system....plus you have resolved the DUVAC issue and now have, probably, way less in the Delco as compared to the Leece-Neville.

I think the above is correct....based on reading a lot here and over the years (when no one REALLY understood DUVAC and the Leece-Neville was just replaced)  and talking to folks about Van's experience.

Good Luck....whatever you do.....the Shop, not knowing your expertise, MUST FOLLOW Van's logic and do it like he says and not blow you off as an uninformed customer....

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Through the years this subject arises several times each year.  Rebuilding the original alternator has been the best option.   

Chuck B 2004 Windsor

[Tom Cherry]

30 minutes ago, Chuck B 2004 Windsor said:

Through the years this subject arises several times each year.  Rebuilding the original alternator has been the best option.   

Chuck B 2004 Windsor

Chuck,

I'd basically, as I said....AGREE with you.  However, since the early days....and I go back to early 2009, that advice was based on no one totally understanding the Leece-Neville DUVAC system and how it worked.  Monaco used it and there were many folks that spent money for aftermarket alternators and they were NOT the DUVAC or were improperly installed.  SO, YES....based on all the reports and issues that we had.....up until recently.....it was a MISERABLE experience...

However, I must point out that the "REBUILD" was always based on having Leece-Neville OEM part and now some junk.

BUT, what I DISAGREE is that we now have more electronic gurus here and the "mystery" of installing a Delco or other good name and how it SHOULD be wired or configured has been solved.  Van did it and others have reviewed the circuits.

So NOW....YES....rebuild if you can....with LN parts.  But, if you and/or your shop understand....which many before never did...NOW to convert, it can be done and it has been done successfully.

The OP's issue is that if he has a crack and it can't be fixed, then the rebuild is not viable....but he is NOT locked into purchasing a NEW LN and can now use an aftermarket.

 

[On_the_road]

Whenever I see the insulation pulled back from the crimped connectors like you have, I think that there might be a bad connection.   It could be a bad crimp, or a loose nut on the screw terminal, or it was originally sloppily made with the wire strands showing.   A bad crimp or a loose nut will result in heating the connection, which can cause the insulation to melt and pull back.   You should have a closer look.

 

[willbo777]

2 hours ago, klcdenver said:

I like dealing with this place. Cannot comment on your diagnostics thou.

AJ-Electric

5942 Georgia Rd

Franklin Nc 28734
Phone: 828-369-0118

Sales@AJ-ELEC.com

AJ.ELEC.SALES@gmai

I don't want to sound real negative, but I will share my experience.  My original alternator, Leece Neville crapped out at about 165,000 miles.  I bought a brand new, exactly the same model from AJ, installed it and it lasted less than 2500 miles, since I was within driving distance I took it back to AJ, he tested it and confirmed it burnt up.  Although he replaced it under warranty, he insinuated there had to be something wrong with my coach's electrical system.  I asked why had the first one lasted so long then, no answer.  The second brand new replacement lasted 4500 miles.  I then installed a brand new Delco 28si that has been bulletproof for over 20,000 miles.  Come to find out his "brand new" Leece Nevilles are built by him at his shop in NC.  Just my experience, take it for what's it worth.

[jacwjames]

When my Leece Neville went out back in 2012 I contacted the purchasing department at the mines I use to work at they gave me the name/number of the rebuild shop they use.  From my experience the vendors the mines used were developed over time and had a good reputation.  So I took my alternator there and picked it up the next day, I've probably put +50k miles on my rig since then without a problem.   The cost was $185. 

So rebuilding is an option if you can find a good shop. 

If not consider the solution that VanWill posted and Tom Cherry provided a link to.  I added a Bluesea MLACR in 2021, put +12K on the rig since then.  I removed my BIRD, Lambert 415 maintainer, and the isolation Solenoid when I did this.  Much simpler system. 

[JJMonaco]

Very Good Info Guys! Thanks!

Tom, thank you for all the work you put into the site...Much appreciated.  I haven't read Vanwill's article yet.  I will look into it tonight.

If I can put in a Delco,  get it lined up and use the old LN pulley without having to re-engineer the mounting system, that would be great.  It's not going to be a fun job and place to work in for sure... I think I am pretty much committed to a new alternator one way or the other since the foot on the LN is cracked.

All The Best,

JJ

[hitechpete]

14 hours ago, jjroxus said:

Very Good Info Guys! Thanks!

Tom, thank you for all the work you put into the site...Much appreciated.  I haven't read Vanwill's article yet.  I will look into it tonight.

If I can put in a Delco,  get it lined up and use the old LN pulley without having to re-engineer the mounting system, that would be great.  It's not going to be a fun job and place to work in for sure... I think I am pretty much committed to a new alternator one way or the other since the foot on the LN is cracked.

All The Best,

JJ

I had my faulty LN alternator replaced with a Delco back in 2013, I believe that the original pulley was reused without issue. My only note would be that in order to turn on charging when first starting the engine, I had to raise the engine revs slightly, which wasn’t an issue for me. The same alternator is still working in 2023.

[Rikadoo]

Something i have seen over the years is the opting to ALWAYS wanting to go new rather than rebuild, i suspect this comes from the idea we always want New, that New is always “better” and i will concede there are times it is. However when i took my alternator off while i was replacing my water pump, hoses and alike i had my alternator “rebuilt” knock on wood its working great. Now the reason im posting is not to share a story to compeate with the new vs rebuilt instead its about the loss of the trade, when i was searcing for a shop to do the work, many had been shuttered due to lack of avaiable parts, and or qualified personell. Finally found one located in a schetchy part of town 70 miles away, the owner had a story of his own that bent towards the influx of Chinese parts an componits that was making good solid repairs difficult. Folks i get the idea that we all just want to be on our merry way an to not be bothered by Messy things like breakdowns or people problems, but im here to say that our common man is worth whatever it takes to invest in them. As a tradsman who watched happen replace rather than rebuild, the impact it has had on the industry has been tremendous, that everyone needs to decide for themselves which dirrection they should head. But for me i will choose to rebuild first, in hopes it gives some type of support to the people who make a living doing so. Remember Mechanics were originally there to repair… not to simply replace!

Just another idea worth thinking about when making your decision😎

[Tom Cherry]

18 minutes ago, Rikadoo said:

Something i have seen over the years is the opting to ALWAYS wanting to go new rather than rebuild, i suspect this comes from the idea we always want New, that New is always “better” and i will concede there are times it is. However when i took my alternator off while i was replacing my water pump, hoses and alike i had my alternator “rebuilt” knock on wood its working great. Now the reason im posting is not to share a story to compeate with the new vs rebuilt instead its about the loss of the trade, when i was searcing for a shop to do the work, many had been shuttered due to lack of avaiable parts, and or qualified personell. Finally found one located in a schetchy part of town 70 miles away, the owner had a story of his own that bent towards the influx of Chinese parts an componits that was making good solid repairs difficult. Folks i get the idea that we all just want to be on our merry way an to not be bothered by Messy things like breakdowns or people problems, but im here to say that our common man is worth whatever it takes to invest in them. As a tradsman who watched happen replace rather than rebuild, the impact it has had on the industry has been tremendous, that everyone needs to decide for themselves which dirrection they should head. But for me i will choose to rebuild first, in hopes it gives some type of support to the people who make a living doing so. Remember Mechanics were originally there to repair… not to simply replace!

Just another idea worth thinking about when making your decision😎

Short version of the REBUILD and NOT REPLACE WITH ANYTHING ELSE BUT LEECE-NEVILLE.  We were not as electronically blessed in the early years (say 2009) as we are now with members.  There were many tales of where "Charley Shade Tree" said it would work and then several thousand miles and four states later.  DISASTER.

So, the consensus, and also frequently parroted by the Moderators, was to REBUILD.  Then the inevitable....the rebuilds were sub standard and/or the parts were NOT OEM equivalent.  That continued for many years, as Chuck commented. 

BUT, with more folks here and a great wealth of individuals with electrical and electronic savvy, we have actually morphed and improved.  Old habits die hard....but now, after folks find shops or themselves are technically competent.....replacement with a NON LEECE NEVILLE, per Van's details is more common.  BUT, it is a sound practice for a quality shop to rebuild....totally....and put in OEM LN parts.  That works....and may be the best....but we do have alternatives now.

 

[JJMonaco]

To follow up and for future reference-

I removed the Leece Neville DuVac alternator from my 2002 Signature coach.  The mounting ear that was cracked fell away from the  alternator when I removed the lower mounting bolt. So the alternator is toast!  The good news is that I ordered a new 200 amp Delco Remy 28si (Long foot) from Find it Parts on the internet. Only $275.49 tax and shipping included.
In my research to figure out what to do for a replacement, it lead me to the 200 amp Delco Remy 28si.  I wasn't sure if it would be an exact drop-in replacement.  Luckily it was. The belt lines up perfectly.  I used my impact wrench to take the pulley off the old Leece Neville and it fit the Delco. The Delco Remy 28Si alternator is several inches shorter.  Mounting it was much easier than working with the Leece Neville. In hooking up the original accessory/control wiring harness, I used the red wire (constant 12v) for the optional sense wire connection on the Delco 28Si and the grey wire to the R (relay) connection on the Delco 28Si for the tachometer.  I did not connect the yellow wire. (key switch ignition 12v)  The Delco 28Si is self exciting and needs no ignition switch signal to start.  

Something that is important to note, and a prime reason I went with the Delco, was last year I upgraded the house battery system to a 600 amp Lithium Ion (LifeP04) battery bank.  I also added 700 watts of solar panels and a Victron Solar charger. In addition I upgraded original the Trace 3012 inverter to the 3000 watt Victron Multiplus II Inverter/Charger and a Victron Orion DC-DC charger along with other Victron monitoring accessories.  For this reason I no longer needed a DuVac type alternator since the Delco is only charging one chassis battery bank.

Once I got everything hooked up, I have 14.2 volts charging the chassis battery. I have the Victron Orion DC-DC charger's input connected to the chassis batteries. I also have the Victron Orion DC-DC charger on a switch.  That way I can control when I want it to charge the LifeP04 house battery bank when the engine is running.

For reference, I no longer connect and use the original 200 amp battery isolator to separate the chassis and house battery banks.  I also disconnected the Big Boy combiner solenoid. 

Time will tell if the Delco Remy 200 amp long foot will give the 20+ year service life the Leece Neville did. 

Thank you to all that gave me advice and make this so valuable to me.

All The Best,

JJ