2005 Scepter Step Cover won't extend or retract

[daveyjo]

My 2005 Scepter Step Cover won't extend or retract.  I can hear a relay or solenoid click when I actuate the step switch either to open or close it, but nothing moves.  The coach was in for months waiting for some unrelated repairs, then came out and was stored outdoors for several months in freezing Minnesota.  Been on the road for 3 days and it hasn't worked once.   Any ideas??

Dave Jones

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, daveyjo said:

My 2005 Scepter Step Cover won't extend or retract.  I can hear a relay or solenoid click when I actuate the step switch either to open or close it, but nothing moves.  The coach was in for months waiting for some unrelated repairs, then came out and was stored outdoors for several months in freezing Minnesota.  Been on the road for 3 days and it hasn't worked once.   Any ideas??

Dave Jones

You have the single motor (Dayton).  There are several topic that discuss this,  ODDS ARE…. You need to get under it and tighten the screws and lube the lead screw. BUT….to do it easily, you need to get it out.  Once it gets into a funk, here is what has worked for me and others.

FIRST….HOLD the switch in the EXTEND position for a few seconds,  As it ages or the mechanism gets dry or the glides get loose, it takes more torque to move  Riding down the highway, the vibration will actually make it work better as the “mechanism” is flexing and is looser.  If that works, then you have to remember NOT to bump it and panic (TRUST ME…this is the voice of experience…LOL)

NEXT…no joy in the above.  Push it IN..as hard as you can…don’t hit it with a sledge, but get it seated in the IN position.  SOMETIMES it can be bumped and then lock up.  NOW try the above.  OK….NO JOY, then do the opposite.  Hold down the EXTEND switch and gently but firmly PULL it out.  You MIGHT actually sort of grab and jerk it.  You are trying to break the mechanism loose.  Don’t beat it to death, but help it,  

NOW….once it is OUT or even partially out….leave it that way.  THEN, when you are able, fully extend it (weather permitting…..I spent a LOT of time in MN and Duluth), then get your LED flashlight and look up under it and tighten every screw on the mechanism and the glides and lube (some like a Teflon spray…just don’t spray the motor) or use a Garage Door lube on the lewd screw.  Do NOT overdo it.

NOW, from NOW ON, caution anyone to HOLD down the switch so it cycles and never, ever again….BUMP IT.

Worked for me (and tech didn’t charge me a bundle) and tested it for 30 days,  DW bumped it and panicked.  I got it moving and changed her technique and it runs perfectly.  NOT like new….it is older….so you treat it was a little respect.

Good Luck…
 

[hitechpete]

10 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

You have the single motor (Dayton).  There are several topic that discuss this,  ODDS ARE…. You need to get under it and tighten the screws and lube the lead screw. BUT….to do it easily, you need to get it out.  Once it gets into a funk, here is what has worked for me and others.

FIRST….HOLD the switch in the EXTEND position for a few seconds,  As it ages or the mechanism gets dry or the glides get loose, it takes more torque to move  Riding down the highway, the vibration will actually make it work better as the “mechanism” is flexing and is looser.  If that works, then you have to remember NOT to bump it and panic (TRUST ME…this is the voice of experience…LOL)

NEXT…no joy in the above.  Push it IN..as hard as you can…don’t hit it with a sledge, but get it seated in the IN position.  SOMETIMES it can be bumped and then lock up.  NOW try the above.  OK….NO JOY, then do the opposite.  Hold down the EXTEND switch and gently but firmly PULL it out.  You MIGHT actually sort of grab and jerk it.  You are trying to break the mechanism loose.  Don’t beat it to death, but help it,  

NOW….once it is OUT or even partially out….leave it that way.  THEN, when you are able, fully extend it (weather permitting…..I spent a LOT of time in MN and Duluth), then get your LED flashlight and look up under it and tighten every screw on the mechanism and the glides and lube (some like a Teflon spray…just don’t spray the motor) or use a Garage Door lube on the lewd screw.  Do NOT overdo it.

NOW, from NOW ON, caution anyone to HOLD down the switch so it cycles and never, ever again….BUMP IT.

Worked for me (and tech didn’t charge me a bundle) and tested it for 30 days,  DW bumped it and panicked.  I got it moving and changed her technique and it runs perfectly.  NOT like new….it is older….so you treat it was a little respect.

Good Luck…
 

What does “Bump” mean?

[Tom Cherry]

55 minutes ago, hitechpete said:

What does “Bump” mean?

BUMP = When you push the button (either way) and hold it for a second or so and you hear the sound of the "Motor", but it does not let off and you panic.  In other words, You need to hold it down and let the motor work.  

BTW, I looked, just to verify, at the 2005 Scepter Sales Brochure and it says ALL ELECTRIC STEPWELL COVER.  Some of the earlier ones had air cylinders.  The ALL ELECTRIC have (typically through the 2010's...which were for the Camelot and Scepter and below) a SINGLE Dayton motor and lead screw that reverses. The noise that the OP described is the mechanism being "cantankerous" and sort of locked up.  There are also TWO relays, typically in the front run bay.  One for IN and one for OUT.  They rarely fail, but if you reverse them and the cover moves....REPLACE BOTH.

NOW....your 2000 Diplomat, per the Sales Brochure (Online still with Monaco) lists YOUR STEP WELL COVER AS AIR OPERATED.  Therefore you do not have the Dayton motor. PROBABLY a relay to operate the valve, but I don't have a clue, so you need to look at your prints and understand the circuit.  MEMORY says that the MAC (the valve that moves it back and forth) sometimes failed. 

That means that my instructions to the OP for his 2005 Scepter do not pertain to your MH...

Thanks for asking and allowing me to clear that up 

[hitechpete]

Thanks for the explanation of Bump Tom.

My 2000 Diplomat had a similar issue; I could never get the step cover to reliably move out and always suspected the pneumatic valve fitted to the outside of the front firewall. I also had issues with various gauges not displaying correct information re engine temp, fuel level, speed etc, as a last ditch attempt at a fix I installed an additional ground wire behind the speedometer, low and behold all the issues went away and the step cover began to work reliably!

[daveyjo]

12 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

You have the single motor (Dayton).  There are several topic that discuss this,  ODDS ARE…. You need to get under it and tighten the screws and lube the lead screw. BUT….to do it easily, you need to get it out.  Once it gets into a funk, here is what has worked for me and others.

FIRST….HOLD the switch in the EXTEND position for a few seconds,  As it ages or the mechanism gets dry or the glides get loose, it takes more torque to move  Riding down the highway, the vibration will actually make it work better as the “mechanism” is flexing and is looser.  If that works, then you have to remember NOT to bump it and panic (TRUST ME…this is the voice of experience…LOL)

NEXT…no joy in the above.  Push it IN..as hard as you can…don’t hit it with a sledge, but get it seated in the IN position.  SOMETIMES it can be bumped and then lock up.  NOW try the above.  OK….NO JOY, then do the opposite.  Hold down the EXTEND switch and gently but firmly PULL it out.  You MIGHT actually sort of grab and jerk it.  You are trying to break the mechanism loose.  Don’t beat it to death, but help it,  

NOW….once it is OUT or even partially out….leave it that way.  THEN, when you are able, fully extend it (weather permitting…..I spent a LOT of time in MN and Duluth), then get your LED flashlight and look up under it and tighten every screw on the mechanism and the glides and lube (some like a Teflon spray…just don’t spray the motor) or use a Garage Door lube on the lewd screw.  Do NOT overdo it.

NOW, from NOW ON, caution anyone to HOLD down the switch so it cycles and never, ever again….BUMP IT.

Worked for me (and tech didn’t charge me a bundle) and tested it for 30 days,  DW bumped it and panicked.  I got it moving and changed her technique and it runs perfectly.  NOT like new….it is older….so you treat it was a little respect.

Good Luck…
 

I am pretty sure it is pneumatic.  The coach, a 2005, was actually built in 2004 according to a sticker inside the coach.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, daveyjo said:

I am pretty sure it is pneumatic.  The coach, a 2005, was actually built in 2004 according to a sticker inside the coach.

To paraphrase the age old phrase....PRETTY SURE only counts in Hand Grenades and Horseshoes.

If you read Pete's post then you need to do some exploring and verify.  The 2005 year was the transition to where the Scepter/Camelot "Design" originated.  The Windsor's were badged as them, but the 2004 Scepter/Camelot/Windsor was totally different.  They DID have the Mac Valve and the air cylinder.

The type should be pretty easy to determine.  The air cylinder was much quieter.  The Dayton Motor made noise.  NOT objectional, but you were aware of a "Power Window motor" working.  Technically, it was NOT a Power Window motor but a larger DC motor in the left rear.  The 2009 Camelots and maybe lower were SUPPOSED to be upgraded to a TWO POWER WINDOW system....but that fell by the wayside.

The AIR Cylinder ones, I THINK....and you can ask some of the folks were straight IN and OUT.  Now, to confuse things....so were the later UPPER end Dynasty and above.  BUT, they had a set of stops or plastic supports on each side of the step well.  When the cover extended all the way, the frame rested on these two brackets....which commonly broke and are scarce and may have some folks 3D Printing them.

My System....the Dayton Single Motor is definitely MOTORIZED.  I can NOT tell you with 100% what yours is.  BUT, MOST of the Dayton's had a TWO PHASE action.  The cover came out.....and then at the very end, the entire assembly RAISED UP.  Conversely, in retraction, the first action was to LOWER and then start to retract.

You need to verify WHICH type you have....then start to trouble shoot.  The "Sound" you hear perfectly describes a Dayton motor being slightly "locked" or balky.  It is more of a CLUNK or a BUMP....and not the precise CLICK of a solenoid coil.

If you extend the generator and look on the firewall on the CURB side and have someone cycle the step, there should be a valve there and that should make a decided CLINK and you can put your hand on it and feel the coil cycle.  It will have air lines going to it.

No VALVE (maybe Pete can post a picture) then you have the Dayton System.

Figure out for CERTAIN which one you have and then start to trouble shoot or fix.  Otherwise, take it to a tech and tell him that the step cover don't work and let him fix it.

OK....the SEARCH is your friend.  I am NOT saying that your system is the same....but odds are...since this post was for a 2005 Windsor that was actually a 2005 Scepter/Camelot with Windsor badges, my hunch is that you have the electric....just because it was built in 2004 is NOT sufficient to say it has air....

Read this post.  Then, go outside and locate your MAC Valve with the air hoses.  NO VALVE....then you have what your sales brochure and owner's manual calls for....ALL ELECTRIC STEP WELL COVER... Your first comment about the noise was the dead giveaway as you hear that INSIDE...coming from right under the floor where the step retracts into....

BUT...I could be wrong and will not wager on it....

 

[daveyjo]

Well, I "fixed" the stairwell cover retraction problem.  It had been cold and rainy so I didn't do much looking for the problem.  I couldn't see a solenoid under the coach or any relays is the front run box, but I was moving south so I thought I'd wait for warmer weather.  Finally got south to Atlanta, and on a relatively warm day (maybe 65 degrees) I started sleuthing again.  I had an old stethoscope so I kept listening to the solenoid go clunk as I kept actuating the switch, hoping to figure out where the solenoid or switch was, when suddenly the step cover started slowly coming out. I started the engine to get more air pressure and the step cover has worked normally ever since.  Why did it start working??  Maybe things thawed out more, or maybe things just came unstuck.  What ever it was, it remains a mystery as I quit searching for a solution.  And clearly is was air actuated on my 2005 Scepter coach built in 2004.

So, thanks to everyone for your analysis and suggestions.  What a great forum this is!!!

Dave Jones

[jacwjames]

The solenoid air valve may have been sticking, some people have removed and cleaned it.  My air valve it located on the front fire wall above the generator, it's a small valve with air tubing and wires going to it.  Attached is the parts page for my solenoid.  There are some adjustment that can be done for speed of travel in and out.  You could also spray some lubricating oil into the air supply to the cylinder to help lubricate the seals on the piston. 

1 Step Cover Solenoid.pdf

[daveyjo]

On 1/26/2023 at 5:32 PM, jacwjames said:

The solenoid air valve may have been sticking, some people have removed and cleaned it.  My air valve it located on the front fire wall above the generator, it's a small valve with air tubing and wires going to it.  Attached is the parts page for my solenoid.  There are some adjustment that can be done for speed of travel in and out.  You could also spray some lubricating oil into the air supply to the cylinder to help lubricate the seals on the piston. 

1 Step Cover Solenoid.pdf 57.45 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks.  I saved it for next time.