Gonzalo Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I just bought a 2005 Holiday Rambler i bought an electric reel any sugestión I add pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Can't help you with installing the reel as I have never been fond of using electric reels versus using the Glendinning Cablemaster Accumulator for the 50-amp electric cord. However, I do have some suggestions though when using the reel. Always unwind most if not all of the cord even though you may not need it all to reach the shore power outlet. Plus, try not to use the same stopping point on the reel when unwinding the cord otherwise you may end up with problems with the rotating surface contacts on the slip rings. Many members here have had to repair or rebuild their reels due to poor electric conductivity through the slip rings. (edited to delete triple posting of the above) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusgi Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dr4Film said: Glendinning Cablemaster Accumulator back to the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wallis Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I don't know anything about the electric reel but I thought I'd mention that there is a very long thread about the safety an reliability of the IOTA transfer switch that you might want to look at if you haven't seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayD Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 It looks like you have the original Iota transfer switch. You may want to replace that before installing the new reel. There’s plenty of info on this site regarding the need to replace it, as they were recalled years ago and present a fire hazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 MODERATOR'S COMMENT. The IOTA 50 R ATS is a LIFE SAFETY AND FIRE HAZARD. The consensus of the previous site and also the philosophy of this one is to help folks. BUT....Personal Safety and FIRE SAFETY is paramount. Therefore, I am repeating and emphasizing the importance of immediately removing and replacing the IOTA. It was recalled but the OEM Monaco production, prior to the Navastar buyout relieved Navastar of ALL RESPONSIBILITY AND LIABILITY. Navastar and many other major RV manufacturers RECALLED AND REPLACED - at their expense or reimbursement....ALL THE IOTA 50R ATS's installed. THIS IS SERIOUS. You can read the threads....there are many. The most popular, maybe 80% replacement is the ESCO LPT50BRD. There are also others that have been used. Read them for content and find a replacement RIGHT NOW and do not leave the MH plugged in in storage.... Some folks actually did purchase smoke detectors that were linked and had one inside and one on the IOTA. IT IS THAT SERIOUS. Back on point....comments from past posts on the electric reels However, I do have some suggestions though when using the reel. Always unwind most if not all of the cord even though you may not need it all to reach the shore power outlet. Plus, try not to use the same stopping point on the reel when unwinding the cord otherwise you may end up with problems with the rotating surface contacts on the slip rings. I have a different take as well as experiences helping folks salvage their electric reels. There are TWO (at least) kinds. The ones in the picture, like mine, as well as the OTHER brand are prone to arcing and pitting of the slip rings. I use, per the manufacturer, a slightly different approach. I pull mine out with just enough cord to fit the site. That gives the slip rings some "polishing and burnishing" as you pull them out. NOW, if you pull it out ALL the way, then rewind it to where it is just long enough and that will give you a random location. If you are on a site for more than a week or full timing, you need to disconnect and "exercise" it a couple of ins and outs and then pull out (or stop) when you have the right length. If I was full timing, I would mark a spot on the cord left in the reel and make sure that it never was on the same spot. That is the life of the cord. Other than that and the IOTA, good luck with your upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Lindsey Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Replace the IOTA Transfer switch immediately!! Mine melted . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 I will see if I have some pictures of the reel mount. Be sure to mount it so the cable comes off the top. Mine was mounted with the cable coming off the bottome and that caused a lot of friction through the hole. After changing the access hole to one with little wheels it was better but eventually I found the reel could be turned around with the existing cord and now the cable comes off the top and almost straight down through the hole. The power switch was a simple spst. Single pole single throw. This ran the reel in but did not unwind the reel. Unwinding the reel with the switch I installed is much easier now. No heavy pulling the cord. Changing to a dpdt, double pole double throw switch resolved that issue as well. Ditto on replacing that transfer switch. I visited a salvage yard to find the deck hole with the wheels and found too many RV's with burned areas where the transfer switch lives. I have since inspected many Monaco's for friends and have found many with melted covers. It is very cheap insurance to change it. Mine failed but did not smoke luckily. We have full timed for over ten years now and just recently made a video on overhauling my reel. I have been chasing a strange issue but after looking at the reel it was clear it was not in bad shape and could not have caused the problem. I polished the rings the contact fingers ride on and lubed them. The reel is well built and should not give you any issues for a long long time. You will really appreciate the reel. I use a rage around the cord when rewinding. Just cleaning what is not touching the ground and then winding it in a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzalo Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 Thanks a lot what is IOTA transfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 53 minutes ago, Gonzalo said: Thanks a lot what is IOTA transfer Center of pictures 4&5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) In the old days I had an RV that I had to either plug into the electricity at the campground or plug into the generator nowadays we have a transfer switch that does that automatically for us. Iota is a brand of transfer switches that is a fire hazard, they were recalled so they went bankrupt. You'll have to buy one & replace it if you have an Iota.. Yep you have an Iota. Ben spotted it in your pictures. Edited January 26, 2023 by Ray Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzalo Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 i found this two in amazon or e bay Esco LPT50BRD Generator 50A 120/240V Relay Base Automatic Transfer Switch $342.33 Elkhart (LPT50BRD 50 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch -34% $194.80$194.80 wich one will be better to replace IOTA transfer switch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Looking on Amazon, I found a transfer switch, Technology Research, that has been used to replace Iota switches. It is also a surge guard. Since I already have a surge guard, can two surge guards be used at the same time? I hard wired my current surge guard before the Iota transfer switch. I still have my Iota switch. Don't remember seeing the replacement warnings. Gary 05 AMB DST Edited January 27, 2023 by Gary 05 AMB DST more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 https://www.adventurerv.net/wfco-amp-transfer-switch-t57-p-30631.html?osCsid=dr40fn19n2eg9jsu2pn1mobar1 Check this transfer panel out. I would not have two surge guards. They might end up in an argument knowing electronics. Just a gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said: Looking on Amazon, I found a transfer switch, Technology Research, that has been used to replace Iota switches. It is also a surge guard. Since I already have a surge guard, can two surge guards be used at the same time? I hard wired my current surge guard before the Iota transfer switch. I still have my Iota switch. Don't remember seeing the replacement warnings. Gary 05 AMB DST Gary, You need to post exactly what devices you are referring to, make and model numbers. Then we can post a better answer to your question as people call some devices generically "surge guard's" when actually they may be totally different and compatible. Here is my experience. My 06 Dynasty original came with a Surge Guard model that talked with the Aladdin System which is now obsolete. The replacement model Surge Guard is 40450 which does talk with the Aladdin System is very expensive. The previous owner replaced the original transfer switch with a cheaper Surge Guard before I purchased it last year. The model that is in my coach now is Surge Guard 41260 with limited shore power protection. So, instead of changing out a perfectly good transfer switch, I installed the Progressive Industries EMS-HW-50C in front of the Surge Guard. I now have total shore power protection plus additional protection from the Surge Guard Transfer Switch. Works perfectly without any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said: Looking on Amazon, I found a transfer switch, Technology Research, that has been used to replace Iota switches. It is also a surge guard. Since I already have a surge guard, can two surge guards be used at the same time? I hard wired my current surge guard before the Iota transfer switch. I still have my Iota switch. Don't remember seeing the replacement warnings. Gary 05 AMB DST Gary, Gary…you are still, very much at risk, the IOTA will (eventually…not sometimes…not MAYBE) overheat and whether it causes an open Neutral that zaps your HVAC and TV’s is only one of the consequences….it might catch fire. You can NOT put in protection to protect from a catastrophic failure. That is why they were recalled by the RV Manufacturers….and many of us have orphan units as Navistar did not buy Monaco’s liability…. Myron & Gary & Richard Some here were are around when we went down this path before. Our founder, the Colonel sort of “asked” me to do some research. I talked to Surge Guard techs and Tommy Fannelli, the developer and long time EX TRC Surge Guard employer and also called Belkin and a few other companies….as well as pulling in a favor and talking to Cooper Wiring (now EAton) engineers. Here is the gist….if you have TWO HARD WIRED or sometimes TWO plug in surge suppressors….especially the Hard Wired…then that is a disaster waiting to happen. The gist was that the commons and neutral bonded caused the MOS to go crazy. NEC and UL also forbids it. It takes a lot of digging, but it is covered there. SO, a HW50C in series with a Surge Guard ATS, or any other, was NOT recommended and was dangerous. Maybe the guru’s here can be more technical…. Next up….the cheaper Surge Guard ATS don’t usually….per Tommy Fannelli….which he complained to TRC and SurgeGuard and they said no changes…too expensive…DO NOT TELL YOU DIDDLE. The MOS(s) can be bad and you NEVER know. The original inline 50 amp Surge Guard had NO lights or circuitry to do that. Maybe the newer ones. But the new ones, I think, are better, but NOT field serviceable. Monaco put in pretty decent Surge Guards in the 2007 or so years. I have talked to many Dynasty and up folks with electronic savvy and they are satisfied and comfortable…but they keep an eye on the units. As far as I am concerned, the cheapest and best value is a Progressive HW50C (with interior remote or two remotes) and THEN, downstream, an ESCO LPT50BRD . Both are 100% field serviceable. Both are highly reliable. I think I remember ONE or 2 ESCO failures. Only ONE HW50 (no remote) and it was improperly installed DOWNSTREAM of the ATS and overloaded since the 8KW generator (120 not an out of phase 240) sent 70 amps through the neutral…rated for 50…I know this for a fact as I helped the member get it fixed by Tommy. I can also, based one the Belkin and Cooper, tell you to never use TWO plug in Surge Suppressors in series. Read the literature. I removed all my interior 6 gang surge suppressors and use plain power strips…. That is what I know and was told and was posted more than once on the original site….unless the electronics has changed…as well as the NEC…this is still the industry and UL and NEC recommendations. Your MH’s and you and your family personal electrical and fire safety… EDIT….after posting and googling….many hits….same advice…. https://www.prairielectric.com/blog/can-i-plug-a-surge-protector-into-another-surge-protector https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/34048/why-is-daisy-chaining-surge-protectors-not-recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Quoting myself from a previous post. "I would not have two surge guards. They might end up in an argument knowing electronics, just a gut feeling". From years and years of experience. And Tom you have confirmed my gut feeling that they may not play together well. And I meant the argument could be between the devices of course. Here are some pictures I just took of my 2008 electrical bay. Sorry, it is a bit busy looking. I bring in wi-fi via cat 5, an over-the-air antenna on a pole, and my DirecTv signal as well. Edited January 28, 2023 by myrontruex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: Only ONE HW50 (no remote) and it was improperly installed DOWNSTREAM of the ATS and overloaded since the 8KW generator (120 not an out of phase 240) sent 70 amps through the neutral…rated for 50…I know this for a fact as I helped the member get it fixed by Tommy. Tom - You helped me out when on a previous post I mentioned that the PO had installed the HW50 DOWNSTREAM of the ESCO LPT50BRD. I have not yet had the time to relocate the HW50 but I monitor the generator amps to not even approach 50 amps. Here is my question though, if the neutral from the generator can exceed 50 amps because they are not out of phase, then why would this also not be a potential issue for the LPT50BRD which is rated for 50 Amps? Please be gentle on me if the answer is obvious and I have shown my lack of understanding 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Myron, not nitpicking. You said the photos were your 2007 electrical bay, but you sign as a 2008 HR Endeavor. Your electrical bay doesn't look like mine. My 2005 Ambassador that was the first year for the 8 air bag suspension for the Ambassador. It was built on the 2004, 8 air bag Roadmaster (Endeavor) platform that was carried over to 2005. I don't know when that platform was upgraded for a newer, upgraded platform. Was 2007 the last year for this platform and your 2008 was the first year for an improved platform? That is how I compare my motorhome to the postings on the site. As for the transfer switch, I just want the easiest switch to install. I try to keep everything ASAP (As Simple As Possible). WHEW! Gary 05 AMB DST 7 hours ago, myrontruex said: https://www.adventurerv.net/wfco-amp-transfer-switch-t57-p-30631.html?osCsid=dr40fn19n2eg9jsu2pn1mobar1 Check this transfer panel out. I would not have two surge guards. They might end up in an argument knowing electronics. Just a gut feeling. Thanks Myron, This is just what I was looking for. Thank You! Disregard my previous post. You made it ASAP! Gary 05 AMB DST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 41 minutes ago, Bill R said: Tom - You helped me out when on a previous post I mentioned that the PO had installed the HW50 DOWNSTREAM of the ESCO LPT50BRD. I have not yet had the time to relocate the HW50 but I monitor the generator amps to not even approach 50 amps. Here is my question though, if the neutral from the generator can exceed 50 amps because they are not out of phase, then why would this also not be a potential issue for the LPT50BRD which is rated for 50 Amps? Please be gentle on me if the answer is obvious and I have shown my lack of understanding 😁 Now THAT is a good question. All I know is that the member that had the issue with the HW50C did burn up the contactor. So...that is about it. Yes, you are correct, the 8KW (maybe the 7.5KS) Onan has, memory a 35 Amp breaker. I should know....I have popped mine due to stupidity. Unfortunately, I also think that the Intellitec EMS will let you pull excessive amps. I don't THINK that it will load shed. You are not the first to point this out....and it has been a while and discussed. So, I guess the best answer is... DON"T OVERLOAD any Generator and closely monitor the AMPS, if you have the Intellitec EMS, and you will be reading the Neutral...and that should stay at 50 Amps or lower. NOW....from the Manual for the EMS....as most of us that have the 120 Dual Circuit Generators USUALLY have this... The Units with 3 AC (HVAC) will also have (GENRERALLY) a 10 or maybe even a 12 KW genny.... If the generator is running, 120 VAC will be present at the L1 and L2 inputs and a +12 VDC signal will be present at J2 pin 2 on the Control Module. In this mode the energy management feature is disabled and all control relay contacts are closed, energizing all of the controlled loads. The Control Module sends a signal to the Display Module causing the load meter to display actual load current, the GENSET service indicator to light, and all power status indicators to light. OK....doing a little more research. The ESCO LPT50BRD's contactor is rated for 50 amps continuous....but does NOT list any "Max Intermittent Amp Load" like some do. You asked a great question....and all can say is that Monaco knew this....and they went ahead and installed 50 A ATS and also the potential for 70 Amp loads. The #6 Neutral is rated (memory) for maybe 60 Amps... So the short answer is "Pay Attention" to the EMS (assuming you have it ) and do NOT exceed 50 Amps....as that is all the Neutral is rated for. As a Caveat... Tommy Fanelli and I discussed this....and he was in the process of revising the installations to specify the INCOMING power. He sold the company and I have reached out to them and pointed out the flaw in their instructions which say "Alternate" Downstream of the ATS. However, they have not responded. That happens....more than we want to admit....as many of our "trusted and reliable" contacts or techs are going away. That is why we here try to provide some "background".... Was I gentle enough? If not, will PM you the crisis line....for folks that realize that this Monaco ain't the same as your basic pop up pull behind....and they are getting more high tech.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said: Was I gentle enough? Yes sir, and always very thorough answer. Thank you Tom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I plug my Surge protector into the pedestal. I'm not concerned with the output of the generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 minute ago, 96 EVO said: I plug my Surge protector into the pedestal. I'm not concerned with the output of the generator. Yes, that's cool. But, we were discussing the hard wired surge suppressors. However, i trust you know that like Bill pointed out, you can overload whatever ATS and the neutral IF you have the 8KW (dual 120 VAC @ 35 Amp dual breaker). So, to qualify or perhaps keep folks from misunderstanding your lack of concern about overloading or the output of your Generator. Your 43 (technically 42) 2008 Scepter does NOT have the 8KW like mine and a lot of other folks. Your have the 10 KW (240 VAC @ 50 Amp) generator. So, your generator has Line 1 and Line 2 OUT OF PHASE. BTW, FWIW, I asked an ONAN tech support about the advantage or disadvantage of installing a Surge Protector on the DOWNSTREAM side of the ATS. He LAUGHED....he said that the power from the Onans was cleaner than any pedestal. My 8KW works different from yours. Don't ask for more info...but mine starts out as AC and then is converted to DC and then back to AC....so it as clean and pure as (Fill in the Blank). BUT, your Generator does NOT work that way. It is, I think a DIRECT OUTPUT AC. The ONLY bad thing....is that the brushes will get really crappy. You need, and probably do this, to run it at the max load for maybe half an hour every year or 6 months to "clean 'er out". This has been posted here as often folks with the 10KW will have issues with voltage regulation and such. Frank McElroy is the expert....and he may chime in...but if you load it heavily like all 3 AC's and maybe the AquaHot or and the Inverter is charging....that pulls a nice load and the brushes (and maybe the communtator) get polished and are clean..... Just pointing that out...as some folks do not understand that....or do it... Our 8KW has two lines....but they are IN PHASE....so our Neutral is the total of the load. We don't have to do a full or heavy load to keep ours cleaned....tradeoffs.... Your Neutral is the ALGEBRAIC sum of the two Neutrals....I can't remember the exact formula from the Onan manual....so maybe you subtract the smaller from the larger....and that is what the Neutral sees or would be measured. ODDS ARE...your EMS is probably always very LOW if the loads are balanced. BTW, do you know what model or revision of the Surge Guard you have. My original, which I had for my Winnebago, bought circa 2006, had absolutely NO self diagnosis or would NOT tell you if the MOS's were OK, BAD or somewhere in between. I got tired of plugging it in and out and locking of the creature to keep it from escaping. I actually put in Male and Female plugs and had it INTERNAL on the Upstream side of my IOTA when I bought the Camelot, new. Then, several folks convinced me and I called TRC and they said....WELL' ER....we can't tell you if it will work or not. Send it in and we will test it. If it fails...we'll charge you for the test and then ship it back....as the MOS's were NOT warranted but for maybe a few years. I sold it and put in the HW50C. That's my experience. We HAVE had folks that got zapped with a defective (unbeknownst to them) Surge Guard....but I THINK they updgraded them along the line...especially when Progressive started to eat into their market share.... Your manual should tell you if the lights are also doing "boot up diagnostics" and what they mean.... YES...I go back a ways ... Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Yeah, that's exactly what I do. At least monthly, I run all 3 heat pumps and Aqua Hot on electric power, for a couple of hours. I have the 10KW, and haven't found it's limit yet, but haven't tried running washer & dryer while the previously mentioned appliances were running. I'm not big on pushing things to the max, just to see what the max is 😄! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Yeah, that's exactly what I do. At least monthly, I run all 3 heat pumps and Aqua Hot on electric power, for a couple of hours. I have the 10KW, and haven't found it's limit yet, but haven't tried running washer & dryer while the previously mentioned appliances were running. I'm not big on pushing things to the max, just to see what the max is 😄! Cool. Your Generator and ATS is designed for the max the Generator will put out. Same as what the max the Pedestal will put out. So, you are good to go...in that arena.... And I assume you know the diagnostics of your plug in Surge Guard is as well... and also realize that NO SURGE protection is need for an ONAN...as long as it is maintained, exercised and such... A LOT of folks, we find out, do NOT....so maybe they will see the exchange and learn.... Actually, you can't overload...as your EMS is rated for 50 amps (assuming it has 240 VAC on the incoming side)...you WILL pop a breaker on the main panel or the genny. NOW, the EMS on Genny (240 in your case) or with 240 50 Amp stops shedding... The Dynasties and up have the AES that helps shed or redirect or control loads.... I just didn't want folks to think that they can load up their 8KW without risking things....and that was Bill's point. DRIVE ON.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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