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Kongsberg CCM Alternative Restoration & Replacement - 2009 Signature


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From all of my research 99% of the Dynasties in 08 did not have the MPX as Monaco was focusing on the Signature, and Marque, followed by the Exec, Nav and then Dynasty. That came from both of the former Monaco techs I talked to as well as Rev Coburg. What I was really trying to find out was aprox number of MPX coaches that actually hit the road. Everyone that I talked to had a best est of well less than 500 total. But it was a WAG on everyones part. 

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Hopefully the right buyer will pick up this coach at auction for a steeply discounted price and rewire to conventional chassis wiring.  The easiest way to do that would be to buy a front run bay and a rear run bay with all the circuit boards in them from a salvage yard.  Then you would need to build a wiring harness to go from all new dash switches to the FRB and another wiring harness of about 20 wires from the FRB to the RRB.  Then there will need to be a few separate wires going to the engine ECM and reprogramming of the engine ECM to control the Jake brake and cruise control from the new dash switches.  Definitely a project coach for the right buyer who knows what they are doing.

In Brett's case, according to M&M, the CCM modules worked.  The issue is that all the Eaton E30 switch module internal circuit boards failed.  Without these switch modules, none of the dash switches would work.  So until someone is clever enough to figure out which component on these modules is failing and can repair them, what happened to Brett unfortunately might happen to others.

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33 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Hopefully the right buyer will pick up this coach at auction for a steeply discounted price and rewire to conventional chassis wiring.  The easiest way to do that would be to buy a front run bay and a rear run bay with all the circuit boards in them from a salvage yard.  Then you would need to build a wiring harness to go from all new dash switches to the FRB and another wiring harness of about 20 wires from the FRB to the RRB.  Then there will need to be a few separate wires going to the engine ECM and reprogramming of the engine ECM to control the Jake brake and cruise control from the new dash switches.  Definitely a project coach for the right buyer who knows what they are doing.

In Brett's case, according to M&M, the CCM modules worked.  The issue is that all the Eaton E30 switch module internal circuit boards failed.  Without these switch modules, none of the dash switches would work.  So until someone is clever enough to figure out which component on these modules is failing and can repair them, what happened to Brett unfortunately might happen to others.

The odd part of M&M's diagnosis, is that I know for a fact certain aspects of the front CCM did not work and I know for a fact the rear CCM did not work, at least for the turn, stop lights on the rear of the coach. So I would not hold my breath and assume both CCM's work becasue I know they do not, at least not all functions. 

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  • Tom Cherry changed the title to 09 Sig Kongsburg CCM Lightning Damage Not Repairable

Can you post it?  I can also PM you my email (I'll do that too)

One has to be a bit nutty to take on that project...but I posted my "Return from the Dead" thread just to show I am a bit nutty 🙂

Edited by DavidL
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12 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Can you post it?  I can also PM you my email (I'll do that too)

One has to be a bit nutty to take on that project...but I posted my "Return from the Dead" thread just to show I am a bit nutty 🙂

NO, way to many pages to post.

 

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Does it have a salvage title? I wonder why they are selling it without further info? Somone could pay big bucks and be in for a big surprise. 

Just now, birdshill123 said:

Does it have a salvage title? I wonder why they are selling it without further info? Some one could pay big bucks and be in for a big surprise. 

 

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59 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

Does it have a salvage title? I wonder why they are selling it without further info? Somone could pay big bucks and be in for a big surprise. 

 

If you look at the listing, it does have a salvage title with "mechanical" issues.  We all know it's really "electrical".

This is all part of the Buyer Beware part of salvage bidding.

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2 minutes ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said:

Brett, what was the ground on your MH or am I confused how a lightning strike can cause damage? Sorry that you had damage that you had no control over.

Gary 05 AMB DST

We have no idea how it came in. from talking to a few different electronics shops all agreed most likely through a ground plane. We were in bed when the strike hit and we actually heard it running down through the ceiling. We didn't know what we heard at the time, but the next morning I realized that it took out a whole string of ceiling puck lights. We assume the noise we heard was it popping the circuit boards on each light....Beyond that we have no idea how it came in. None of the 120v system was bothered nor did we lose power. There were about five different RV's and park models that were effected, all either 12v systems or circuit boards in TVs and cable boxes. The resort also had all of the circuit board stuff taken out that controlled the sprinkler system.

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Monaco started installing the Kongsberg System in the Executive, Signature and Marquis Coaches about mid 2008 and then the Dynasty's and the Patriot Thunder towards the end of 2008. They installed the system in all the Coaches built in Coburg, WA in the 2009 year and then Monaco went bankrupt.

I did trouble shooting and extensive work on a friends 2008 Marquis that had several issues with the Kongsberg System. I eventually was able to do a work around to get his wipers, headlights and taillights working. The Aquahot would not shut off using any of the switches and could only be shut off by pulling the fuses. I never got that figured out. He also had Phantom loads all over the coach that we never could find the cause, such as, with everything off some lights would be very dim. The coach had the Electronic shocks and sometimes for no reason would go wacky and they never worked correctly. He final had to get rid of them and installed regular Koni's.

Monaco in Coburg and Navistar told us then that Kongberg went Bankrupt and was out of business and there was no parts available and there was nobody that could work on or fix the system.

After many conversations with Coburg and M&M, There were other issues that could not be fixed. I suggested to him that the coach was unsafe to drive and that the issue could get worse and he should sell the coach.

I have all the wiring schematics for the 08 Dynasty, Executive, Signature, Navigator, Patriot Thunder and Marquis. In my opinion they are worthless as they do show wiring going to the ECM and Modules, but no schematics for the ECM or Modules themselves.

Just my two cents worth.

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Wow !!! I can only imagine how you feel, hopefully you will end up with a coach comparable or better !

I have herd of the Kongsberg system being problematic but no way to the extent that I now know.

I had looked at an 2009 Signature Cambridge over a year ago and fell in love with the floor plan, the interior was beautiful. but the exterior was rough and reluctantly I passed.  I'm now feeling lucky to have found an 2007 Signature...

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8 hours ago, David Pratt said:

Monaco started installing the Kongsberg System in the Executive, Signature and Marquis Coaches about mid 2008 and then the Dynasty's and the Patriot Thunder towards the end of 2008. They installed the system in all the Coaches built in Coburg, WA in the 2009 year and then Monaco went bankrupt.

I did trouble shooting and extensive work on a friends 2008 Marquis that had several issues with the Kongsberg System. I eventually was able to do a work around to get his wipers, headlights and taillights working. The Aquahot would not shut off using any of the switches and could only be shut off by pulling the fuses. I never got that figured out. He also had Phantom loads all over the coach that we never could find the cause, such as, with everything off some lights would be very dim. The coach had the Electronic shocks and sometimes for no reason would go wacky and they never worked correctly. He final had to get rid of them and installed regular Koni's.

Monaco in Coburg and Navistar told us then that Kongberg went Bankrupt and was out of business and there was no parts available and there was nobody that could work on or fix the system.

After many conversations with Coburg and M&M, There were other issues that could not be fixed. I suggested to him that the coach was unsafe to drive and that the issue could get worse and he should sell the coach.

I have all the wiring schematics for the 08 Dynasty, Executive, Signature, Navigator, Patriot Thunder and Marquis. In my opinion they are worthless as they do show wiring going to the ECM and Modules, but no schematics for the ECM or Modules themselves.

Just my two cents worth.

Dave, Kongsburg is very much in business, I talked to them a few times. 

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On 2/5/2023 at 12:24 PM, throgmartin said:

I should add, I am surely not trying to trash someones 08 or 09 Sig, Exec or Dynasty. That isn't me at all.  They are amazing coaches.  I never have nor ever will I trash someones coach on here. But I do have a reputation of being honest and ethical and if I am contacted for advice about buying one of these models, that person deserves honesty when asking my professional opinion.

There are thousands of owners out there who own these coaches and have never had the problem. I myself would never roll the dice and hope I don't lose my Kronberg system. With my luck I would drop $ 150 K on one of those coaches and the next day the CCM fail. I simply cannot afford to roll the dice while praying my insurance company makes me whole.

Tom, you have known Dave and I for many years and you know we are straight shooters with a wealth of knowledge about Monaco's. People who may be afraid of an answer shouldn't ask either one of us because we will always give our honest opinion. We won't sugar coat it and both of us feel our members deserve honest answers based on facts.

 

Chris,

Dave Pratt and yourself, and some others as well, are INVALUABLE to those of us on this board who maintain and repair our older coaches.
Please don't EVER sugarcoat any info to protect our feelings.
I consider myself an above average hobbyist mechanic and technician. I love working on, driving and racing my own stuff, and I rarely run into a problem that I can't diagnose and fix myself.
I couldn't afford half of what I have if I had to pay someone else for maintenance and repairs. 

Your vast Monaco experience and knowledge, as well as the high quality and ethical service that you provide, make it possible for us middle class working guys to enjoy these coaches as well as the wealthy among us.
THANK YOU! 😎

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2 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

Chris,

Dave Pratt and yourself, and some others as well, are INVALUABLE to those of us on this board who maintain and repair our older coaches.
Please don't EVER sugarcoat any info to protect our feelings.
I consider myself an above average hobbyist mechanic and technician. I love working on, driving and racing my own stuff, and I rarely run into a problem that I can't diagnose and fix myself.
I couldn't afford half of what I have if I had to pay someone else for maintenance and repairs. 

Your vast Monaco experience and knowledge, as well as the high quality and ethical service that you provide, make it possible for us middle class working guys to enjoy these coaches as well as the wealthy among us.
THANK YOU! 😎

I second that. Thank You!

Gary 05 AMB DST

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Hi, 

I have an 09 Dynasty and I see a lot of Intellitec boards in a closet in the back of the coach. I didn't find anywhere a Boar mentioning Kongsburg... 

Also I have the build sheet that says MegaTech CCM front and back. Does that mean I can be sure I don't have the plague??? 

Thanks

P.s. I don't want to steel the tread 

 

Build sheet_1.JPG

Build sheet_2.JPG

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41 minutes ago, Michel Galarneau said:

Hi, 

I have an 09 Dynasty and I see a lot of Intellitec boards in a closet in the back of the coach. I didn't find anywhere a Boar mentioning Kongsburg... 

Also I have the build sheet that says MegaTech CCM front and back. Does that mean I can be sure I don't have the plague??? 

Thanks

P.s. I don't want to steel the tread 

 

Build sheet_1.JPG

Build sheet_2.JPG

Kongsberg contracted with Megatech to produce the CCM modules.  So, yes you have a Kongsberg chassis multiplex system.

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  • 1 month later...

https://www.copart.com/lot/36809103/salvage-2009-roadmaster-rail-monocoque-fl-tampa-south

It's up for auction this Friday, and a friend of mine is very serious about purchasing it. 

Franks idea of rewiring to regular switches and relays would be possible. It would take some serious work. The engine could be reprogrammed to respond to direct switched inputs for the cruise and engine brake features. Same for the transmission.

I went down and looked at the coach 2 weeks ago and I couldn't check much. They wouldn't let me power it on. I've also talked with Brett and he sent me the wiring diagrams he has. It shows me what I need to be able to create a new program and replace the old CCM modules with a new controller. Parker CM3033 is what I am planning on using. It's the replacement for the VMM controllers that have been used for years in Coaches and busses. Tiffin uses the VMMs and will switch to the 3033 as parts for the VMMs are going obsolete. It's a controller designed for this application and I'm an engineer that supports OEMs in implementing these in their applications. I'm the guy the factory calls when they have questions. 

The great part about this controller is it is programmed with CoDeSys, which has no licensing needs. Once the program is done I can share it with anyone that needs it to do a similar conversion on their own coach. Having access to the code allows for changes to accommodate any future changes needed. The Eaton switches can be replaced with a keypad, or touch screen, or Carling switches, or newer Eaton switches and the program just changed to look for the CAN message from the new switches. These controllers have an internal 5v supply for the smartwheel interface as well and it's a very robust design. These controllers should be available for the next 20+ years and even if they go obsolete, the code can be adapted to a new controller if needed. 

The engineers at Monaco put everything on the mutliplex CAN bus. I'm not sure I would have put quite so many things on it. Lights make sense. The front and rear controller can split up light control and you don't need to run wires all the way back to the rear lights. Also, having lights driven by a controller like these allows for diagnostics. The controller can tell if a bulb is out, or a wire is broken and let the driver know that a light is out. Direct wiring doesn't offer that. But I'm not sure I would have put the drivers sun shade on the controller, unless there was a need to automatically lower it or raise it when the coach was parked. I'm looking forward to this project, hopefully my friend wins the auction.

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You or your friend who is considering purchasing the unit can contact me offline.  I have a few other options depending on how advanced you are in electronic repair. 

There are 2 CCM modules plus a circuit board in the RRB with a PIC (programmable Integrated Circuit) on it.  One CCM called front and the other CCM called rear with the rear module mounted in the first bin behind the steer axle.  But there is also a databus control module circuit board with a PIC mounted in the rear run bay that is part of this system.

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Kevin,  as a 2009 Kongsberg Coach owner with a few issues, I look forward to learning more about the possibilities with the Parker system. 
Please keep us posted.  
 

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4 minutes ago, LakeBob said:

Kevin,  as a 2009 Kongsberg Coach owner with a few issues, I look forward to learning more about the possibilities with the Parker system. 
Please keep us posted.  
 

Same with me.

Any ways we can keep those great coaches alive will be welcome...

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