Kongsberg CCM Alternative Restoration & Replacement - 2009 Signature

[Bill R]

@KevinGdo keep us updated.  I am only an observer, but always love watching this kind of stuff.  Maybe even start a new thread of your journey so we can follow along.  Kind of like reading a story book.

[Tom Cherry]

47 minutes ago, Bill R said:

@KevinGdo keep us updated.  I am only an observer, but always love watching this kind of stuff.  Maybe even start a new thread of your journey so we can follow along.  Kind of like reading a story book.

From a Moderation perspective, please continue to use this topic to "follow" the original 2009 Signature's "FATE & FUTURE".  For those that have commented or are following, the new thread might be confusing and the background information and history would be lost or have to be reposted.

THANKS in advance.

[Guest Ray Davis]

Most of what you guys are saying is greek to me, but it is fascinating to see the possibility that this coach can be rescued. 

I hope that as this progresses that it will be right here on the forum.  I realize lots of things are taken offline, but that leaves the rest of us wondering and while we might not be able to help that doesn't mean we are not interested and learning.

Kevin,  if you guys get this coach I'm pulling for you 100%.

[Ivylog]

Please post what it sells for. I see it’s currently at $15K but the insurance company has a reserve price on it.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Ivylog

[dl_racing427]

I'm also rooting for this coach to be saved.
I'd hat to see one this nice be scrapped.

[FuzzyD]

Auction is up to 26k..reserve not met..

[grizzly]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:28 PM, Brett63 said:

Totaled and headed to auction.

09 Signature Cambridge IV hit by lightening which took out the Kongsburg chassis multiplex system. No fixes int he world were found.

Good luck to all other Kongsburg owners.

 

 

Kind of a side question here looking at the pic. I have an 07 Sig and was told to never let them tow it like that with wheels on ground that you would wreck the tag and rear suspension.Always have it put on trailer. Anyone know if I was told the truth?

[Frank McElroy]

It depends on the reason why it's being towed.  If a wrecker lifts by the steer axle and pulls the drive shaft, it's just fine.  The coach needs to be in travel mode if towed like that.

[Brett63]

14 minutes ago, grizzly said:

Kind of a side question here looking at the pic. I have an 07 Sig and was told to never let them tow it like that with wheels on ground that you would wreck the tag and rear suspension.Always have it put on trailer. Anyone know if I was told the truth?

The driveshaft was removed and the air system was hooked into the wrecker air system to keep the suspension at ride height with the Valid system in travel mode. No different than driving down the road.

The hardest part was that Monaco did not supply an air chuck anywhere at the front of the coach for the wrecker to tie into, so he had to run air line all the way to the rer and tie into the airdryer.

Oh, and one other thing, I had to turn the tag pressure up to compensate for the angle so the mudflap would not drag.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Brett63

[grizzly]

Thanks

4 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

It depends on the reason why it's being towed.  If a wrecker lifts by the steer axle and pulls the drive shaft, it's just fine.  The coach needs to be in travel mode if towed like that.

Thanks

[Ivan K]

I think it would have been safer to remove the mud flap than potentially overload the tag and its singles. That's what I would want but I am close to max and don't have 315's in the rear so maybe ok for this one.

[Michel Galarneau]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:48 AM, KevinG said:

I've also talked with Brett and he sent me the wiring diagrams he has.

Hi Kevin, 

you mention you were able to get the wiring diagram for an 09 Dynasty?

Would it be possible to get a copy since the one I have is for an 08? 

Tks

[Frank McElroy]

38 minutes ago, Brett63 said:

The hardest part was that Monaco did not supply an air chuck anywhere at the front of the coach for the wrecker to tie into, so he had to run air line all the way to the rer and tie into the airdryer.

 

That's very interesting.  The drain for the wet air tank should have been located on the front PS with a quick connect fittings right on the air shut off valve.  Next to it would be the drain for the front dry air tank and this valve would not have a quick connect fitting.  Both are easily seen with the generator door open or by looking up behind the front facia.

The quick connect fitting feeds the wet air tank and is designed for the wrecker to connect into the coach air system.  This is not your typical male air chuck fitting and some tow truck operators might not have the correct adapter.

13 minutes ago, Michel Galarneau said:

Hi Kevin, 

you mention you were able to get the wiring diagram for an 09 Dynasty?

Would it be possible to get a copy since the one I have is for an 08? 

Tks

Here is a link to the 09 wiring diagrams in our files.  Click on the title to get the option to download all in one single PDF file.

 

[Brett63]

34 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

I think it would have been safer to remove the mud flap than potentially overload the tag and its singles. That's what I would want but I am close to max and don't have 315's in the rear so maybe ok for this one.

It was an empty coach and you really could not have over preassurized the tag, nor did I go above what I set it at when pulling a trailer....It was just fine and it had more than the mudflap to contend with.

18 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

That's very interesting.  The drain for the wet air tank should have been located on the front PS with a quick connect fittings right on the air shut off valve.  Next to it would be the drain for the front dry air tank and this valve would not have a quick connect fitting.  Both are easily seen with the generator door open or by looking up behind the front facia.

The quick connect fitting feeds the wet air tank and is designed for the wrecker to connect into the coach air system.  This is not your typical male air chuck fitting and some tow truck operators might not have the correct adapter.

Here is a link to the 09 wiring diagrams in our files.  Click on the title to get the option to download all in one single PDF file.

 

Well one would have thought that, but I didn't have one...lol I had the drain and the valve but it was not a fitting, so apparantly it had been removed at some point prior to me. 

[Michel Galarneau]

1 hour ago, Frank McElroy said:

Here is a link to the 09 wiring diagrams in our files.  Click on the title to get the option to download all in one single PDF file.

Hi Frank, 

thanks very much for the file. It's the missing link I was waiting for my understanding of the different system in the coach. It will be very helpful. 

Thanks again. 

[KevinG]

On 3/14/2023 at 7:31 AM, Frank McElroy said:

You or your friend who is considering purchasing the unit can contact me offline.  I have a few other options depending on how advanced you are in electronic repair. 

There are 2 CCM modules plus a circuit board in the RRB with a PIC (programmable Integrated Circuit) on it.  One CCM called front and the other CCM called rear with the rear module mounted in the first bin behind the steer axle.  But there is also a databus control module circuit board with a PIC mounted in the rear run bay that is part of this system.

Is this the board you are talking about in the RRB? It looks like it handles the engine ECM and Trans power  as well as the crank functions. But I don't see anything on the schematic that would interface with the data bus. The J1587 CAN lines, which I think are what are sometimes labeled as RV-C, pass through this board, maybe to the small board next to it? That small board looks like it handles the relays for the two systems. 

I'm confident I can get the coach running and the main things like lights all working. Some of these other systems might take a bit of work to figure out. The lights are easy. There is an input from the turn signal switch, when that turns on, start flashing the outputs going to the turn signals. That logic is easy to figure out. For some of the other stuff, it will take talking to other owners to find out what happens when you push this button on your coach.

27000651_D VEHICLE ELECTRO.pdf

Edited March 16, 2023 by KevinG
fixed spelling

[Frank McElroy]

You are correct.  I thought that board had a pic on it with an interface to the J1939 but it doesn't even though a J1939 data bus terminates in the RRB..  that board gets it's feed inputs from the rear CCM located behind the steer axle.  Should be straight forward to rewire rear lights.

[DavidL]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:48 AM, KevinG said:

https://www.copart.com/lot/36809103/salvage-2009-roadmaster-rail-monocoque-fl-tampa-south

It's up for auction this Friday, and a friend of mine is very serious about purchasing it. 

......I'm looking forward to this project, hopefully my friend wins the auction.

Well, then we will be bidding on same 😉

As a control system manufacturing company, we are interested in applying a long term fix that can be applied to other similar Rigs.  This one could be the development mule.  Hopefully KevinG's friend doesn't take the fun out of it 🙂

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, DavidL said:

Well, then we will be bidding on same 😉

As a control system manufacturing company, we are interested in applying a long term fix that can be applied to other similar Rigs.  This one could be the development mule.  Hopefully KevinG's friend doesn't take the fun out of it 🙂

I have enough knowledge and tutoring from Frank to be irrationally & exuberantly optimistic…..but my hope would be that, if i understand Frank’s solution, you would need the “boards” from a 2008 or so and the front one is populated with 20+ Intellitec smaller PCB’s with many MOSFET’s involved.  

I would hope there is a way to restore the CCM functionality without the need for the Intellitec interfaces…..as they are scarce and need someone like Frank to overhaul.

 

 

[Agpopp]

Up to 72k. Someone is taking a risk; all that work and a Salvage title.  I hope it can be fixed though! 

[Brett63]

I suspect the insurance has a 50% of payout set as reserve. But that is a guess. I have no idea.

[Ivan K]

7 minutes ago, Brett63 said:

I suspect the insurance has a 50% of payout set as reserve. But that is a guess. I have no idea.

They might try again if it does not sell but bottom line, they have to get rid of it. I had an experience with Copart, did not reach the reserve on a parts car but after the close I was contacted and my offer was accepted. Of course that was a lot less money that is in play here. The point is to be the highest bidder.

[Ivylog]

Unless you are actually bidding on an item, you will not see the last bid if it sells. Pice hasn’t updated since .42

[DavidL]

Sold on Approval

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Sold on Approval

“Approval” of WHAT?  How much $$?

Thanks.