Kongsberg CCM Alternative Restoration & Replacement - 2009 Signature

[Mike Barrett]

3 hours ago, Mike Barrett said:

The one thing i forgot to make clear is that the turn signal in the mirror stays on all the time. Ignition off and keys out, it is still on.  The only time it is off is when i turned off the batteries in the battery compartment.   Once when i turned them back on, the turnsignal was off, turned on the headlights with the dash switch and the headlights stayed on for an instant and then every thing went back dysfunction.   Sort of points to the headlights and some failure in that circuit

And now for the FINAL RESOLUTION.  Sometimes you have to start over and do the simple things first with more discipline and deliberateness.   Turned off the batteries, waited several minutes, turned them back on and turn signal stayed off.  Dash switch for the headlights and dysfunction returned.  Turned off the batteries, took the high/low beams connector off and turned on the batteries.  Turn signals worked properly.  Examined the headlight connecters again, for 5th time, slid it back together and disfunction was immediate, snugged it ALL the way in and poof all is good with the system.  The plastic locking mechanism failed long ago with a prior owner.  It has been a [long string of expletives that would make a sailor startle] a loose connection all along.

Worked all the switches several times and all is good.   I stalling new headlight housings (blackout and projector lens) AND making sure the connections will remain tight.

 

Frank I can't thank you enough and everyone else who provided help and insight into getting this resolved.Now I can start really moving forward with this coach

[dl_racing427]

It's great to see progress on this.
Good news for all the other owners out there with the Kongsberg system as well.
Thanks for keeping us updated.

[Frank McElroy]

34 minutes ago, Mike Barrett said:

And now for the FINAL RESOLUTION.  Sometimes you have to start over and do the simple things first with more discipline and deliberateness.   Turned off the batteries, waited several minutes, turned them back on and turn signal stayed off.  Dash switch for the headlights and dysfunction returned.  Turned off the batteries, took the high/low beams connector off and turned on the batteries.  Turn signals worked properly.  Examined the headlight connecters again, for 5th time, slid it back together and disfunction was immediate, snugged it ALL the way in and poof all is good with the system.  The plastic locking mechanism failed long ago with a prior owner.  It has been a [long string of expletives that would make a sailor startle] a loose connection all along.

Worked all the switches several times and all is good.   I stalling new headlight housings (blackout and projector lens) AND making sure the connections will remain tight.

 

Frank I can't thank you enough and everyone else who provided help and insight into getting this resolved.Now I can start really moving forward with this coach

Thanks for posting an update - another Kongsberg CCM chassis multiplex system fixed.

Likely this is what happened.  Your headlight connection was making connection to the high and low beams but not to ground.  When that happens, power to the low beam will backfeed through the high beam back to the CCM module.  The CCM module does not use mechanical relays - it uses electronic circuits to power individual outputs.  So when when power gets put on an output, the circuitry and Internal CPU gets confused.  When you fully pushed in the headlight connection you completed the ground connection and after rebooting everything started to work again.

[Brett63]

Awesome news. I said from the beginning and told Frank as well that I called MM diagnostic totally wrong from the very beginning. There is no doubt in my mind Frank and I diagnosed everything exactly correct. With that said, your front CCM should be fine. Everything about it tested good. If you can get your ECM sorted I believe you will have a fully functional coach aside from the switches. Firtunately most of those really only operate nice to haves. Other than the engine brake, toll window and being able to start the gen from inside the rest can really be not working and be ok. 

But I am positive the front CCM is just fine. Anyway good deal on the progress.

[Frank McElroy]

47 minutes ago, Brett63 said:

Awesome news. I said from the beginning and told Frank as well that I called MM diagnostic totally wrong from the very beginning. There is no doubt in my mind Frank and I diagnosed everything exactly correct. With that said, your front CCM should be fine. Everything about it tested good. If you can get your ECM sorted I believe you will have a fully functional coach aside from the switches. Firtunately most of those really only operate nice to haves. Other than the engine brake, toll window and being able to start the gen from inside the rest can really be not working and be ok. 

But I am positive the front CCM is just fine. Anyway good deal on the progress.

Brett - you were correct.  I think that M&M never checked to see if the rear CCM module would actually communicate on the J1939 databus - they only checked to see if the front CCM would communicate with the dash switches.  I too was really surprised when they said that both CCM modules tested fine. 

Data from your testing showed that the J1939 databus on the rear CCM was shorted - and yep - your test data was correct - it was shorted.

With the wipers now working, that means that the smart wheel function should now work.  So, Jim should have cruise control working.

About all that's left is to get the dash switch modules working.

[Brett63]

3 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Brett - you were correct.  I think that M&M never checked to see if the rear CCM module would actually communicate on the J1939 databus - they only checked to see if the front CCM would communicate with the dash switches.  I too was really surprised when they said that both CCM modules tested fine. 

Data from your testing showed that the J1939 databus on the rear CCM was shorted - and yep - your test data was correct - it was shorted.

With the wipers now working, that means that the smart wheel function should now work.  So, Jim should have cruise control working.

About all that's left is to get the dash switch modules working.

What I am not understanding though is that all functions of the smart wheel work from the front CCM and it all worked and had worked since I did the 12 to 5v converter. So I am not sure how the rear CCM had anything to do with the smart wheel.. 

[Frank McElroy]

18 minutes ago, Brett63 said:

What I am not understanding though is that all functions of the smart wheel work from the front CCM and it all worked and had worked since I did the 12 to 5v converter. So I am not sure how the rear CCM had anything to do with the smart wheel.. 

When you have in internal communication problem between two CCM modules, the internal computers in each module are trying to sort out the problem.  When that happens they are basically trying to constantly reboot so nothing else works.  Signals to work the rear lights and cruise control needed to go from the front CCM to the rear CCM but the rear CCM communication bus that communicates on the J1939 bus is lost.  So the front CCM can't do anything else.  That's why the wipers and other smart wheel functions on the front CCM wouldn't work until the rear CCM was fixed.

[Brett63]

7 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

When you have in internal communication problem between two CCM modules, the internal computers in each module are trying to sort out the problem.  When that happens they are basically trying to constantly reboot so nothing else works.  Signals to work the rear lights and cruise control needed to go from the front CCM to the rear CCM but the rear CCM communication bus that communicates on the J1939 bus is lost.  So the front CCM can't do anything else.  That's why the wipers and other smart wheel functions on the front CCM wouldn't work until the rear CCM was fixed.

That's what I am saying though, the smart wheel functions worked AFTER the lightening strike. At least the cruise turned on and high idle worked as well as the wipers. Either way, the issues are working themselves out with every new part which is a great thing.

[Paul J A]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:31 PM, Brett63 said:

Awesome news. I said from the beginning and told Frank as well that I called MM diagnostic totally wrong from the very beginning. There is no doubt in my mind Frank and I diagnosed everything exactly correct. With that said, your front CCM should be fine. Everything about it tested good. If you can get your ECM sorted I believe you will have a fully functional coach aside from the switches. Firtunately most of those really only operate nice to haves. Other than the engine brake, toll window and being able to start the gen from inside the rest can really be not working and be ok. 

But I am positive the front CCM is just fine. Anyway good deal on the progress.

Love your Newmar Brett.

[birdshill123]

 Flyer and MCI are the same company. I live close to their factories. They have been doing a lot of work on Hydrogen

[powerpro2000]

Update on Brett's 09 Signature. I acquired this coach in April. As most know it suffered a very debilitating lightning strike that took out several control devices. The engine ECM was replaced at a cost of $1500. This have back all the dash chassis gauges. The rear Megatech ECM was acquired from REVRV for $1200. They still have some of these in stock. This gave back all the CCM controls including all chassis lights except headlights. They also have a few switch modules available. I installed an Auxbeam multiplex light control to control the headlamps. I got a box of CCM connector pins from NAPA to connect into the wiring harness at the CCM so no need to cut or splice anything. It can be removed in a couple minutes. So at this point all the must haves work for less than $3000. The only item of consequence is there is no control of the engine brake. I don't know if it is a contact closure to actuate or if it has logic. 

Frank has kindly offered to research and repair the front CCM and the switch modules. He has the entire system now. The CCM may be good but with two bad masters we can't know for sure yet. 

So making progress and things are not as dire as they seemed a couple of months ago. 

[Tom Cherry]

25 minutes ago, powerpro2000 said:

Update on Brett's 09 Signature. I acquired this coach in April. As most know it suffered a very debilitating lightning strike that took out several control devices. The engine ECM was replaced at a cost of $1500. This have back all the dash chassis gauges. The rear Megatech ECM was acquired from REVRV for $1200. They still have some of these in stock. This gave back all the CCM controls including all chassis lights except headlights. They also have a few switch modules available. I installed an Auxbeam multiplex light control to control the headlamps. I got a box of CCM connector pins from NAPA to connect into the wiring harness at the CCM so no need to cut or splice anything. It can be removed in a couple minutes. So at this point all the must haves work for less than $3000. The only item of consequence is there is no control of the engine brake. I don't know if it is a contact closure to actuate or if it has logic. 

Frank has kindly offered to research and repair the front CCM and the switch modules. He has the entire system now. The CCM may be good but with two bad masters we can't know for sure yet. 

So making progress and things are not as dire as they seemed a couple of months ago. 

You have the most knowledgeable person in the USA working on it.  @Frank McElroy is like Doc in “Back to the Future”.  I have confidence he ain’t gonna rest until he develops a process to fix the master modules and switches.  He is one heck of a “reverse engineering” genius…Bet on it!  Thanks for the update

[LakeBob]

36 minutes ago, powerpro2000 said:

Update on Brett's 09 Signature. I acquired this coach in April. As most know it suffered a very debilitating lightning strike that took out several control devices. The engine ECM was replaced at a cost of $1500. This have back all the dash chassis gauges. The rear Megatech ECM was acquired from REVRV for $1200. They still have some of these in stock. This gave back all the CCM controls including all chassis lights except headlights. They also have a few switch modules available. I installed an Auxbeam multiplex light control to control the headlamps. I got a box of CCM connector pins from NAPA to connect into the wiring harness at the CCM so no need to cut or splice anything. It can be removed in a couple minutes. So at this point all the must haves work for less than $3000. The only item of consequence is there is no control of the engine brake. I don't know if it is a contact closure to actuate or if it has logic. 

Frank has kindly offered to research and repair the front CCM and the switch modules. He has the entire system now. The CCM may be good but with two bad masters we can't know for sure yet. 

So making progress and things are not as dire as they seemed a couple of months ago. 

Thanks for the update  as a Kongsburg coach owner I appreciate the information and the insight you,Frank and others have provided.

[DavidL]

That sounds great!  I am jealous!

I suspect Frank will help get the rest going.

Good luck!

 

[Frank McElroy]

3 hours ago, powerpro2000 said:

Update on Brett's 09 Signature. I acquired this coach in April. As most know it suffered a very debilitating lightning strike that took out several control devices. The engine ECM was replaced at a cost of $1500. This have back all the dash chassis gauges. The rear Megatech ECM was acquired from REVRV for $1200. They still have some of these in stock. This gave back all the CCM controls including all chassis lights except headlights. They also have a few switch modules available. I installed an Auxbeam multiplex light control to control the headlamps. I got a box of CCM connector pins from NAPA to connect into the wiring harness at the CCM so no need to cut or splice anything. It can be removed in a couple minutes. So at this point all the must haves work for less than $3000. The only item of consequence is there is no control of the engine brake. I don't know if it is a contact closure to actuate or if it has logic. 

Frank has kindly offered to research and repair the front CCM and the switch modules. He has the entire system now. The CCM may be good but with two bad masters we can't know for sure yet. 

So making progress and things are not as dire as they seemed a couple of months ago. 

To get your Jake brake to work without the Kongsberg CCM, you will need to run separate wires from the engine ECM up to the dash for 2 switches (Jake brake on/off and Jake brake Hi/Low).  Then you'll need to set the Engine ECM control option from J1939 databus to hard wire using the Cummins Insite software.

[DavidL]

3 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

To get your Jake brake to work without the Kongsberg CCM, you will need to run separate wires from the engine ECM up to the dash for 2 switches (Jake brake on/off and Jake brake Hi/Low).  Then you'll need to set the Engine ECM control option from J1939 databus to hard wire using the Cummins Insite software.

Frank, If he wanted to use CCM control over the Jake - is that just CCM relays that trigger same circuits?

For example, on many DPs, Jake can be triggered using the air brakes (the foot brake).  If he switches over to the hard wired - is he loosing that feature?  Or are the two switches you mention wired to tell the ECM that you want to enable Jake?

Mine is working (including a foot switch for Jake on / off - which is very handy) but am curious on how Monaco wires theirs (technical curiosity).

[Frank McElroy]

9 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Frank, If he wanted to use CCM control over the Jake - is that just CCM relays that trigger same circuits?

For example, on many DPs, Jake can be triggered using the air brakes (the foot brake).  If he switches over to the hard wired - is he loosing that feature?  Or are the two switches you mention wired to tell the ECM that you want to enable Jake?

Mine is working (including a foot switch for Jake on / off - which is very handy) but am curious on how Monaco wires theirs (technical curiosity).

Cummins allows for two options to controlling the Jake.  One is via hard wire from the engine ECM to dash/foot switches.  The other is via the J1939 multiplex databus.  With the multiplex option, the Kongsberg CCM communicates with the Engine ECM over that J1939 databus. Inside the ECM is a software option to select which option you want to use.

[Mike Barrett]

Some more minor updates on my chase - I just replaced most of the brake/turn signals with LED and sure enough all 4 turn signals stay dimly lit with the LED.  and the mirror signal is dimly lit.

Any ideas?  The dash turn signals are lit, and when I turn on a turn signal it works fine.  Also the dash message board says the turn signal is on.

Ideas?

Also, for $2,700, I might want to have a set of spare CCMs......

[Tom Cherry]

EXTRA…..EXTRA….READ ALL ABOUT IT….LATE BREAKING

I spoke to  @Frank McElroy about a concern that we had discussed, a few months back, about starting a NEW topic SPECIFICALLY dedicated to repairs and such on the Kongberg Chassis MPX system.  We decided to “watch and monitor”.  Now, we are starting a NEW topic just for that.  The original one, here, is or should be, specifically related to the “Signature Restoration”, which is ongoing.  Here is the link to the new one as well

However, all future issues and questions and repairs of the Kongsberg  CCM should be posted there.   I have put a “TAG LINE” on that topic, but there might not be a way to move the last posts .over here.  YES, we moderators have not been promoted to GOD…YET.  LOL.

ALL POSTS MOVED!

Thanks for understanding and why we elected NOT to react when we discussed it a while back

PLEASE KEEP THIS ONE “PURE” or for the Restoration.  All comments and questions are fine….but use the new topic for “How TO” or questions about functionality.

Thanks.

[woodylmiller]

A note of thanks to Frank.  Actually another thanks.  Smart Wheel is back!  The 5vdc power supply did it.

A note on the Jake Brake.  I lost mine a few years back.  Turned out it was a master switch on the Kongsberg, two switches as I recall.  Cummin's Northwest (I believe that's the name) worked on this for me.  Never fixed it.  They said it couldn't be fixed.  The jake could be hard wired they thought but did not know for sure at a cost of about $5,000.  Probably around $8,000 now days.  For those that may be tempted to use this Cummin's Coach Care shop, consider I will never have this shop change a tire for me.  EVERYTHING this shop ever worked on fell apart, broke or quit working and I had to have all those items fixed by independent truck repair shops.  Worst example; old exhaust pipe was crushed, hat tip to Monaco for routing the pipe beneath the oil pan thereby zero gound clearance, the new pipe fell off in Dallas on I-35.  So I've paid double for everything the Cummin's shop in Spokane "fixed".  They also killed my new Trojan 8D batteries, 4 of them.  Thanks guys.

Woody Miller

09 Dynasty

[Frank McElroy]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:43 PM, Frank McElroy said:

Over the past few weeks I got my hands on a switch module master and a couple of slave modules.  Using an Arduino and an interface module to the J1939 switch module databus, I was able to sniff the digital code sent by the dash switch modules to the CCM.  Using the Easton E30 switch module technical data sheet, I was able to figure out the coded data package being generated by all the dash switch modules.  Next up would be to write a GUI to operate the dash switches from a touch screen monitor via an Arduino interface.

 

It's time for an update.  Some very good news - I was able to fully repair one of the master switch modules but need help from someone with a chassis multiplex coach to complete the repair of the other switch module. 

More specifically, I need to get a copy of the software program stored on the dash switch module pictured below.  If anyone out there wants to help by loaning me the module pictured below - maybe a spare your are saving or the one from your coach if in storage - please send me a private message.  In exchange, should you ever have a failed Master Switch module, on your coach, I'll repair the internal circuit board for free.

I'm sure there are some curious minds out there that want to know what I did to repair the Master switch modules.  The PDF file describes what I did - warning - it's very technical.

Eaton E30 module repair.pdf

[DavidL]

42 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

It's time for an update.  Some very good news - I was able to fully repair one of the master switch modules but need help from someone with a chassis multiplex coach to complete the repair of the other switch module. 

More specifically, I need to get a copy of the software program stored on the dash switch module pictured below.  If anyone out there wants to help by loaning me the module pictured below - maybe a spare your are saving or the one from your coach if in storage - please send me a private message.  In exchange, should you ever have a failed Master Switch module, on your coach, I'll repair the internal circuit board for free.

I'm sure there are some curious minds out there that want to know what I did to repair the Master switch modules.  The PDF file describes what I did - warning - it's very technical.

Eaton E30 module repair.pdf 142.62 kB · 1 download

I am impressed.  A "never say die" attitude 🙂  Love it.

Me, I would have replaced the proprietary stuff with less than proprietary.  But that's looking from afar.  Nice work!

 

I am doing some automation enhancements on my Newmar (that applies to any coach).  At some point I will be posting about those updates.  My next trip is Hilton Head in a couple of weeks.  I am targeting then to have lots of it working.  I will polish stuff while sitting down there in the nice weather!

 

Oh, it would be cool if you share the J1939 bits that we look at technical integration of "your stuff" and "my stuff"

Edited October 4, 2023 by DavidL

[cbr046]

Interesting that "low voltage . . . . can do lots of damage" - is that exclusive of a lightning strike?

- bob

[powerpro2000]

7 minutes ago, DavidL said:

I am impressed.  A "never say die" attitude 🙂  Love it.

Me, I would have replaced the proprietary stuff with less than proprietary.  But that's looking from afar.  Nice work!

 

I am doing some automation enhancements on my Newmar (that applies to any coach).  At some point I will be posting about those updates.  My next trip is Hilton Head in a couple of weeks.  I am targeting then to have lots of it working.  I will polish stuff while sitting down there in the nice weather!

 

Oh, it would be cool if you share the J1939 bits that we look at technical integration of "your stuff" and "my stuff"

Huge kudos to Frank for his tenacity to achieve something nobody else has been willing to undertake or been able to do so. He has take a system some have called a very expensive anchor to living again. All the while expecting nothing in return. 

[Scotty Hutto]

Frank,

Simply amazing! I’ve learned so much from you!