Kongsberg CCM Alternative Restoration & Replacement - 2009 Signature

[NSBOB1]

Hi everyone, this is Kevin's friend, my name is Noel and I live just south of the Atlanta airport.  I'm a Captain at Southwest Airlines, and my wife is a First Officer at same.  We have a 6 year old daughter who is the light of our lives.

Figured I should say Hi eventually, but wanted to wait until I was sure about a few things regarding the auction.  Thanks to everyone who has given input and done research into this issue, I really hope it's a solvable problem whether it's us who do it or someone else.  These beautiful coaches have no business being put out to pasture because of a lack of parts.

Also huge thanks to Brett, who has been really great to us and has forwarded us all the research he's done so far to try and get the thing working again.

My intention (and Kevin's as far as I know) is to fix this coach and keep it as a personal RV for our shared family use.  I'm the "money guy" and Kevin is the "brains" of the team.  We'd like to be the ones who come up with an "open source" solution which anyone can implement.  If I'd have won the coach I'd have made videos on the process and posted them on my YouTube channel.  Kevin was going to post the technical side of the solution on here in thanks to those who have done so much legwork on this before we came along.  Our intention was to fix the problems and post the solution with detailed steps so anyone could follow them.

But something weird is going on with the bids on this coach...  I believe the insurance company is playing silly buggers with us all trying to maximize their profits, and I'm not playing their games.  It's worth only what someone is willing to pay for it considering the massive gamble to repair that it actually is, and it's actually worth less to me now than it was 3 weeks ago simply for my loss of time and effort - as we all know, as a coach sits idle things magically go wrong all on their own.  Not to mention with the recent massive drops in used RV prices, at 90k (plus fees!) this thing is on par with a decent Dynasty with low miles and a clean title.  Stupid money, and nobody is biting at that price.  Surprise, surprise.

It's now back up for auction for Round 3 this Friday.  Good luck to all bidders.  We will be there, but with a lower maximum bid than on the initial round, and if it goes to Round 4, my bid will be lower still.  My cards are now on the table so that the insurance company knows they're losing potential dollars every time they deal a round.  ...I guarantee you they're watching this thread, and likely have an entire division dedicated to bid rigging in the interest of minimizing their losses.  We shall see what happens.  I'm patient like a stone, and have already said goodbye to this opportunity in my mind on the first round loss, so have nothing to lose at this point.

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, NSBOB1 said:

Hi everyone, this is Kevin's friend, my name is Noel and I live just south of the Atlanta airport.  I'm a Captain at Southwest Airlines, and my wife is a First Officer at same.  We have a 6 year old daughter who is the light of our lives.

Figured I should say Hi eventually, but wanted to wait until I was sure about a few things regarding the auction.  Thanks to everyone who has given input and done research into this issue, I really hope it's a solvable problem whether it's us who do it or someone else.  These beautiful coaches have no business being put out to pasture because of a lack of parts.

Also huge thanks to Brett, who has been really great to us and has forwarded us all the research he's done so far to try and get the thing working again.

My intention (and Kevin's as far as I know) is to fix this coach and keep it as a personal RV for our shared family use.  I'm the "money guy" and Kevin is the "brains" of the team.  We'd like to be the ones who come up with an "open source" solution which anyone can implement.  If I'd have won the coach I'd have made videos on the process and posted them on my YouTube channel.  Kevin was going to post the technical side of the solution on here in thanks to those who have done so much legwork on this before we came along.  Our intention was to fix the problems and post the solution with detailed steps so anyone could follow them.

But something weird is going on with the bids on this coach...  I believe the insurance company is playing silly buggers with us all trying to maximize their profits, and I'm not playing their games.  It's worth only what someone is willing to pay for it considering the massive gamble to repair that it actually is, and it's actually worth less to me now than it was 3 weeks ago simply for my loss of time and effort - as we all know, as a coach sits idle things magically go wrong all on their own.  Not to mention with the recent massive drops in used RV prices, at 90k (plus fees!) this thing is on par with a decent Dynasty with low miles and a clean title.  Stupid money, and nobody is biting at that price.  Surprise, surprise.

It's now back up for auction for Round 3 this Friday.  Good luck to all bidders.  We will be there, but with a lower maximum bid than on the initial round, and if it goes to Round 4, my bid will be lower still.  My cards are now on the table so that the insurance company knows they're losing potential dollars every time they deal a round.  ...I guarantee you they're watching this thread, and likely have an entire division dedicated to bid rigging in the interest of minimizing their losses.  We shall see what happens.  I'm patient like a stone, and have already said goodbye to this opportunity in my mind on the first round loss, so have nothing to lose at this point.

Thanks for posting, your intentions are noble for sure.  Great coach that really needs a home.

I hope the insurance company is watching and takes heed, sooner or later they have to come to the realization that the rig is not worth as much as they think with the electrical problems. 

To be honest the newer electrical bells and whistles scare the bazejus out of me and I am satisfied to stay with my 2002 Windsor with much simpler systems that even a neanderthal like me can usually troubleshoot. 

[Frank McElroy]

3 hours ago, NSBOB1 said:

But something weird is going on with the bids on this coach...  I believe the insurance company is playing silly buggers with us all trying to maximize their profits, and I'm not playing their games.  It's worth only what someone is willing to pay for it considering the massive gamble to repair that it actually is, and it's actually worth less to me now than it was 3 weeks ago simply for my loss of time and effort - as we all know, as a coach sits idle things magically go wrong all on their own.  Not to mention with the recent massive drops in used RV prices, at 90k (plus fees!) this thing is on par with a decent Dynasty with low miles and a clean title.  Stupid money, and nobody is biting at that price.  Surprise, surprise.

It's now back up for auction for Round 3 this Friday.  Good luck to all bidders.  We will be there, but with a lower maximum bid than on the initial round, and if it goes to Round 4, my bid will be lower still.  My cards are now on the table so that the insurance company knows they're losing potential dollars every time they deal a round.  ...I guarantee you they're watching this thread, and likely have an entire division dedicated to bid rigging in the interest of minimizing their losses.  We shall see what happens.  I'm patient like a stone, and have already said goodbye to this opportunity in my mind on the first round loss, so have nothing to lose at this point.

It is not at all uncommon for a seller to have what looks like legit (but actually fake) bidders (who never bid above the reserve) with an objective to run up the price so that a legitimate buyer will have the highest big above or very close to the reserve. Since the reserve isn't met, the item doesn't sell. This is a problem especially with online auctions.

Your strategy is a good one.  Know the price you are willing to pay and don't fall for the bidding trap.

[Paul J A]

IF the Fed's hear about this "ring" bidding, there could be some racketeering charges coming down the pike. Saw it during my years in the Machine Tool Industry as a Distributor/Dealer. Pretty nasty fines in 6 figures.  And a Record of a Convicted Felon. 

[DavidL]

Hi, I too have bid on this coach.  My plan is to replace the out of date control system with one my company has created called myServer 6.  We support CAN (powertrain / RV-C and other) and all kinds of other status / control protocols.

Once that is in place, then the system is completely reprogrammable for all kinds of new capabilities.

I also am a glutten for punishment to rebuild salvage vehicles.  I like the challenge (technically and mechanically) and like the end results even better.  I always improve to "better than new" especially when it comes to the electronics.

But at the end of the day, we can't overpay for the fun.

I am also interested in providing a solution to others that may have to go down the same path of fixing their "unfixable" multiplex system.  And make them better than new.

[NSBOB1]

It just went for $87.5k and it wasn't to us.

Still shows "On Approval" so we'll just have to wait and see if it shows up again for Round 4.

 

[DavidL]

So, I was traveling back from vacation and pulled over to bid on this with my smartphone.  Live bidding started and was able to bid fine.  Then got to the last 10 seconds of bidding and my phone disconnected from the Internet, not allowing me to bid further.  Seconds later, somebody won the auction (again).... 

Maybe somebody is trying to tell me something...

[NSBOB1]

Shows "Sold" now.  We'll have to see if it pops up anywhere else.

'Twas a good run, an enjoyable dream while it lasted.  Too bad we couldn't have come up with a permanent fix to the chronic issues with this fine line of coaches.

[ak49er]

I am watching this thread very closely as I have a 2008 Beaver Marquis. I will be adding the 40 and 60 amp Automatic Circuit Breakers to the FRB in May. I would like to also have the 12vdc to 5vdc Converter on hand that is the Fix for the VIP should I need it. What amp converter would I need? 

If and when I ever need to attempt to fix any issue caused by the CCM or its switch blocks, I have been collecting any information can find such as these forum posts. We have been looking for a patch of land in the Southwest just in case this ever happens, and I am open to trying to apply any fixes. I am lightly versed in CAN Communications from a previous job, and have just enough skill and time to get in over my head.

Before I bought this, we were looking at a Newmar that had some E-Plex issues and I wondered to myself if those couldn't be fixed Wirelessly with some sort of Raspberry Pi or Arduino components.

Edited April 4, 2023 by ak49er
Spelling, grammar, punctuation.

[Frank McElroy]

25 minutes ago, ak49er said:

I am watching this thread very closely as I have a 2008 Beaver Marquis. I will be adding the 40 and 60 amp Automatic Circuit Breakers to the FRB in May. I would like to also have the 12vdc to 5vdc Converter on hand that is the Fix for the VIP should I need it. What amp converter would I need? 

If and when I ever need to attempt to fix any issue caused by the CCM or its switch blocks, I have been collecting any information can find such as these forum posts. We have been looking for a patch of land in the Southwest just in case this ever happens, and I am open to trying to apply any fixes. I am lightly versed in CAN Communications from a previous job, and have just enough skill and time to get in over my head.

Before I bought this, we were looking at a Newmar that had some E-Plex issues and I wondered to myself if those couldn't be fixed Wirelessly with some sort of Raspberry Pi or Arduino components.

Over the past few weeks I got my hands on a switch module master and a couple of slave modules.  Using an Arduino and an interface module to the J1939 switch module databus, I was able to sniff the digital code sent by the dash switch modules to the CCM.  Using the Easton E30 switch module technical data sheet, I was able to figure out the coded data package being generated by all the dash switch modules.  Next up would be to write a GUI to operate the dash switches from a touch screen monitor via an Arduino interface.

 

[Chargerman]

Good thing you keep the wine close at hand 😳. Way outside of my knowledge base. Good for you. Best of luck with the project. 

[birdshill123]

It is too bad that owners of the affected motorhomes did not form a co-op. 20 pwners pay about 20k each and buy that write off. Then they hire someone like Frank to figure out a fix. Each owner now adds enough for Frank and maybe  others to finalize the fix. The co op and Frank et al now own the fix. Any owner wanting his unit fixed would have to pay to join the co- op

 

 The original 20 sell the unit and recover some of the funds. Think of this as a guarantee that your unit will not become a brick. My idea may need some tweaking. Remember not all Insurance companies will be generous with write offs. How many on this forum would ever buy one of those units? How  many dealers would take one in trade? Owners have to be proactive to protect their investment. All of the costs spread amongst owners would be minimal.

Edited April 4, 2023 by birdshill123

[jacwjames]

I am amazed at the amount of knowledge that is on this website.  Collectively we have a huge knowledge base and in turn can solve a lot of problems. 

I just try to take it all in.

[cbr046]

Ditto.  I really like the Arduino approach. 👌

- bob

 

[Paul J A]

13 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

It is too bad that owners of the affected motorhomes did not form a co-op. 20 pwners pay about 20k each and buy that write off. Then they hire someone like Frank to figure out a fix. Each owner now adds enough for Frank and maybe  others to finalize the fix. The co op and Frank et al now own the fix. Any owner wanting his unit fixed would have to pay to join the co- op

 

 The original 20 sell the unit and recover some of the funds. Think of this as a guarantee that your unit will not become a brick. My idea may need some tweaking. Remember not all Insurance companies will be generous with write offs. How many on this forum would ever buy one of those units? How  many dealers would take one in trade? Owners have to be proactive to protect their investment. All of the costs spread amongst owners would be minimal.

Thank you Bruce. 

[DavidL]

Brett,

Can't believe you "slept" through that....

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lightning-strikes-missouri-highway-department-truck-during-severe-storms-shocking-new-video

 

[Brett63]

50 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Brett,

Can't believe you "slept" through that....

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lightning-strikes-missouri-highway-department-truck-during-severe-storms-shocking-new-video

 

Well the strike hit about 60' from us so not a direct hit. But I assure you, it was close enough...lol There is an 8' vinyl privacy fence right behind us (about 15' behind the coach) the strike actually hit a tree stump right at the end of the fence about 60' from us. It blew the post caps off the fence for about 75', everyone of them from the end down past us was blown off....Crazy power.

[KevinG]

On 4/3/2023 at 10:06 PM, birdshill123 said:

It is too bad that owners of the affected motorhomes did not form a co-op. 20 pwners pay about 20k each and buy that write off. Then they hire someone like Frank to figure out a fix. Each owner now adds enough for Frank and maybe  others to finalize the fix. The co op and Frank et al now own the fix. Any owner wanting his unit fixed would have to pay to join the co- op

 

 The original 20 sell the unit and recover some of the funds. Think of this as a guarantee that your unit will not become a brick. My idea may need some tweaking. Remember not all Insurance companies will be generous with write offs. How many on this forum would ever buy one of those units? How  many dealers would take one in trade? Owners have to be proactive to protect their investment. All of the costs spread amongst owners would be minimal.

I wasn't that far from finishing the system design before the first auction. I have the front run box wiring worked out and started doing the program for the controllers. I have all the documentation for what CAN messaging the engine, trans and ABS controllers need to see. I hadn't started on the rear CCM wiring yet, but that wouldn't take long. If anyone fries a CCM in the future, let me know. 

I also would be a bit cautious about using Arduino and Raspberry Pi controllers in a on road mobile environment. They are not running real time and could cause some problems. 

[Frank McElroy]

11 hours ago, KevinG said:

I wasn't that far from finishing the system design before the first auction. I have the front run box wiring worked out and started doing the program for the controllers. I have all the documentation for what CAN messaging the engine, trans and ABS controllers need to see. I hadn't started on the rear CCM wiring yet, but that wouldn't take long. If anyone fries a CCM in the future, let me know. 

I also would be a bit cautious about using Arduino and Raspberry Pi controllers in a on road mobile environment. They are not running real time and could cause some problems. 

Yes, an Arduino would never be able to replace a CCM module, however, using a Arduino as an output interface to generate the code output of the dash switch modules as input to the existing CCM modules is a viable option.  It is very rare for a CCM failure but dash switch modules failure is common.

[ak49er]

With the Flickering lights on my three-gang center console switch, I'm sure I'll be in the market for a fix of some sort.

 

[Mike Barrett]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:13 PM, DavidL said:

Hi, I too have bid on this coach.  My plan is to replace the out of date control system with one my company has created called myServer 6.  We support CAN (powertrain / RV-C and other) and all kinds of other status / control protocols.

Once that is in place, then the system is completely reprogrammable for all kinds of new capabilities.

I also am a glutten for punishment to rebuild salvage vehicles.  I like the challenge (technically and mechanically) and like the end results even better.  I always improve to "better than new" especially when it comes to the electronics.

But at the end of the day, we can't overpay for the fun.

I am also interested in providing a solution to others that may have to go down the same path of fixing their "unfixable" multiplex system.  And make them better than new.

I would love to get my hands on a replacement - particularly if some additional interfaces could be worked in (say browser based management through a Bluetooth connection).  I suspect there may be other K owners that might bite on this.  We have a 2008 signature (new to us in Oct 2022) and this event has put a big hitch in our giddy up for updating/improving the coach.   I get a custom motherboard would be spending, I for one would be very willing to look at a project to sponsor what would have to be a small batch of boards.  There may be others out there.

[KevinG]

You wouldn't need a custom motherboard. There are plenty of commercial options for mobile controllers. 

[ak49er]

How wild of an idea would it be to consider this "Nuclear Option".

CCM fries, no commercial or produced solution available. Sell Engine (mine is a low mileage Cat C-15), sell off any useable Chassis Multiplex Items to  the next guy who may be able to use them. Convert Coach to an EV.

I have a 12.5kw Generator on board already, there is a lot of unused roof space to mount more solar panels, more if I pull off the unused SAT TV systems. The rig tends to be hooked up to Shore Power 50% of our trips.  I know I would lose my Vorad System and its Cruise Control Functions, but I believe it would be easier to interface a Cruise Control back into the system using a GPS sensor and the motor feedback data, etc. No need for a "Jake Brake" as one could have regenerative braking. Plenty of room for more batteries in the Engine Compartment once all that Cast Iron is gone, and they along with the drive motor and motor controller would compensate for the weight loss of pulling the motor. I'd of course miss the growl of that big diesel, and for range isn't that big of deal, we are touring from state to state, not trying to get across the country in a set time.

Any ideas why this couldn't' be a final option?

[KevinG]

https://www.newflyer.com/bus/xcelsior-charge-ng/

Basically this. This is a transit design so the floor is low and the batteries are on the roof, but the concept is similar to what you are talking about. New Flyer builds diesel, hybrid, full electric, and hydrogen all on the same chassis with the same controllers. 

Cruise and vorad would interface fine with an electric drive system. You could even use the same shifter for FNR. Abs and traction control would work as well.

The RV park might wonder why the power meter is spinning so fast when you plug in, but it's definitely possible. 

You wouldn't need the house batteries either so you could use that space for the high voltage batteries too.

[KevinG]

https://www.mcicoach.com/coach/electric-series/features/

That's the coach version. They estimate a range of 225 miles with a 520kWhr battery system. Gives a rough idea of range/battery capacity for something that size.