Ceiling lights blinking

[birdshill123]

2008 Dynasty.    Recently the ceiling lights are blinking. I thought it was interference from the flourescents but turning those off did not help. I tried shutting off some of the lights. Still no change.  Sometimes they will be OK for a few minutes and sometimes they actually turn off for a split second. Very fast blink. Even the fantastic fans will slow down.  When this coach was new we started to have a oroblem with the bathroom lights. The flourescents would turn off at random. We were in Indiana and went across to Michigan where 2 former Monaco techs had opened a shop. Monaco had a problem with some wires that were a small gauge. They fixed that and all was good. I really do not know where to start. I checked all the bus bars in the closet with the Multiplex and wiggled all the molex connectors. I am worried it could be the inverter or the Multiplex system. I know that this park has problems with the AC power. I have a digital readout on one of the receptacles and it is fairly steady. Jumps up or down 2 volts. I checked my battery voltage and it is fine. Any help appreciated.

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

2008 Dynasty.    Recently the ceiling lights are blinking. I thought it was interference from the flourescents but turning those off did not help. I tried shutting off some of the lights. Still no change.  Sometimes they will be OK for a few minutes and sometimes they actually turn off for a split second. Very fast blink. Even the fantastic fans will slow down.  When this coach was new we started to have a oroblem with the bathroom lights. The flourescents would turn off at random. We were in Indiana and went across to Michigan where 2 former Monaco techs had opened a shop. Monaco had a problem with some wires that were a small gauge. They fixed that and all was good. I really do not know where to start. I checked all the bus bars in the closet with the Multiplex and wiggled all the molex connectors. I am worried it could be the inverter or the Multiplex system. I know that this park has problems with the AC power. I have a digital readout on one of the receptacles and it is fairly steady. Jumps up or down 2 volts. I checked my battery voltage and it is fine. Any help appreciated.

 

 

For starters, the flashing interior lights are not part of the inverter.  That would be your AC.

Since you have a Dynasty, you need to pull the prints,  there are, if I remember correctly, TWO House Solenids that provide power,  there are circuit breakers for each.  Your lighting is controlled by the Intellitec CPU via output or control modulles….maybe 5 or 6 of them.

The first step….turn OFF the Salesman switch at the door.  That kills the power to the CPU.  Leave it off for a few minutes.  Then turn the salesman switch back ON.  That has reset the system…

No JOY….then go round and isolate the lights.  You don’t say whether it is every light or whether it is a group of incandescents or fluorescents or some combo.

Once you identify the lights, then use the lighting circuit legend on the Multiplex panel.  If it  is only ONE module, then start there.  Even a transient spike on an AC line can end up going through the inverter and impact the CPU.  If your batteries are fine and OK, then there could be a loose (high resistance) connection.  
I can’t recall whether your Inverter is connected via the battery disconnect switch or directly through a large fuse,  but again, it looks like you have a voltage or a connection issue…..rebooting from a transient sometimes (usually) resolves it.

The issue of undersized wiring with Fluorescents has happened where Monaco put too much load, fluorescents, on a circuit.  We have had folk start turning off the slide switches on an entire bank or fluorescent circuit….they then found out that one or many ballasts had died….thus the Intellitec Module was drawing too much current.  They converted to LED…and converting all incandescents to LED is a great prevention plan as the Intellitec modules draw, collectively, only 15% or so of the original current load,l.l

Then, maybe there is a problem with the 300 A Blue Seas main house battery switch.  Cycle it times…if it fixes it….order a NEW one. You want the 6010 DUAL CIRCUIT….you have 2 large studs and two small terminals.  The plain one, 6006, does not have the small terminals or the second switch….and it WILL not work, unless you do some bypassing….

BUT…isolate the cause….these are potential causes and fixes…

[Frank McElroy]

11 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

2008 Dynasty.    Recently the ceiling lights are blinking. I thought it was interference from the flourescents but turning those off did not help. I tried shutting off some of the lights. Still no change.  Sometimes they will be OK for a few minutes and sometimes they actually turn off for a split second. Very fast blink. Even the fantastic fans will slow down.  When this coach was new we started to have a oroblem with the bathroom lights. The flourescents would turn off at random. We were in Indiana and went across to Michigan where 2 former Monaco techs had opened a shop. Monaco had a problem with some wires that were a small gauge. They fixed that and all was good. I really do not know where to start. I checked all the bus bars in the closet with the Multiplex and wiggled all the molex connectors. I am worried it could be the inverter or the Multiplex system. I know that this park has problems with the AC power. I have a digital readout on one of the receptacles and it is fairly steady. Jumps up or down 2 volts. I checked my battery voltage and it is fine. Any help appreciated.

 

 

One possibility is that the Intellitec module controlling power to the ceiling lights is starting to fail.  These modules are rated for so many amps on each circuit and a max total amps per module. 

I helped one person solve a problem he had with ceiling lights that would blink when other lights powered by the same module were turned on.  The solution was to lower the amp draw by going to LED lights.  Have you already changed your interior lights to LEDs?

[birdshill123]

Thanks Frank and Tom. This problem began when we were in Q. First one leg went out on the pedestal then the power went out. I realize that is the 110 side  Happened 3 days in a row.  do not like fixing things on the road. We are at the KOA in Tucson for 2 days and then back to Mrxico where I am more comfortable doing repairs. I did find that one of  the heavy ground cables os really stiff at one end. O am going to cut the outer rubber to see if the cable is corroded.  I have lots of cables and ends  so will eventually replace all of them. I will check the battery cells with a hydrometer  and load test the batteries. Even my Tecma toilet caused the lights to flicker and al.ost turn off. As long as nothing gets worse I will tackle this in a few weeks. I might even check to see which module has the toilet and check the static voltage on the buss bars.

 

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[vito.a]

You have a 12v issue.  It may be with the batteries or the Intellitec multiplex system or both.  What type and how old are your batteries?

[birdshill123]

Batteries are 3.5 years old. I have a load tester in my shop and will check that out.

[Hypoxia]

I would start by cleaning all of the battery, battery to switch and switch to house bulkhead connections.  Next I would clean all grounds to the chassis.  The front run bay bulkhead connections as well as the rear run bay.  Good time to clean the generator ground also.  They have to be disassembled to clean them.

The front run bay generally is not watertight and if you remove those boards (assuming non-Kongsburg) you will probably find a lot of corrosion on the back of them and on the many bus bars that connect them together.  I had intermittent problems and then completely lost house power in Mexico due to FRB corrosion.

[birdshill123]

I have had frb board problems. But that was when the coach was 2 years old. Tweaked the hinges and adjusted the latch and have not had problems since. When I get to Mexico will do a hydrometer and load test on the batteries. I noticed that one of the4/0 ground cables was hard like a rock at the battery end. Could be full of blue corrosion. I have all the components to make new cables. Will be back in Mexico Thursday and will check everything. The lights have been on  for 3 hours and no flickering but the Tecma struggles and then the lights dim. Thanks for the tips. Glad my system is Intellitic.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, birdshill123 said:

I have had frb board problems. But that was when the coach was 2 years old. Tweaked the hinges and adjusted the latch and have not had problems since. When I get to Mexico will do a hydrometer and load test on the batteries. I noticed that one of the4/0 ground cables was hard like a rock at the battery end. Could be full of blue corrosion. I have all the components to make new cables. Will be back in Mexico Thursday and will check everything. The lights have been on  for 3 hours and no flickering but the Tecma struggles and then the lights dim. Thanks for the tips. Glad my system is Intellitic.

You did not specify, as requested, what TYPE of ceiling lights.  But you followup posts are starting to gel my thoughts.  You have a VOLTAGE ISSUE....Again, I have NO IDEA as to what, doubtful, if anything a BAD power pedestal AC would cause it.  NOW....this assumes that you have good batteries.

One "OK....TRY IT" test would be to start the Engine.  unplug from Shore.  Take a car jumper cable and jump from the House Positive to the Chassis Positive.  Let the engine run for a few minutes...this is actually bypassing the Big Boy Boost which does the BIRD charging... Turn on all the vent fans and every light and then run the Tecma.  If all is well, then you have an issue with the House Bank...  BUT, that issue COULD (it happened to me....so this is not theoretical) the Ground from the House to the Frame.  Simple TEST....put another jumper from the Negatives....that way you have a good connection and a charging battery (from the alternator)....if it still happens....then start to trouble shoot.

Frank is the Dynasty Electrical Czar.  But, what is happening is that you either have a high resistance (low voltage) connection somewhere in the system.  If you start with the basics, here is how you can narrow it down.  FROM THE PRINTS.... BELIEVE ME....doing it like Frank finally forced me to....is a LOT easier than just shotgunning it and trying things....like a new cable end.  You can NOT (and we have many stories from very experienced troubleshooters that attest to this)...LOOK AT A CABLE AND SAY OK or NOT OK. 

LOOK at your prints.  I have a better than average concept of your main high current Dynasty prints.  Frank has them in his photographic memory. There are a couple of obvious places....and here is how you do it.  You need a length of maybe 14 or 16 Gauge hookup wire and alligator clips. You use this as a extension "cord" so you can hook up one place and then probe in another area.  FOR EXAMPLE..  Shut off the GENNY.  No engine running.  No Shore.  You are NOW running off you House Bank. 

You want MAX current draw....so all lights on...all fans on.  You may have to have someone run the Tecma to increase the DC load. Hook up the Alligator clip to the Negative House post ON THE BATTERY.  Now go UNDER the MH where you see the Bonded Ground Stud for the House.  Measure the voltage to the CABLE....if you get more than a Tenth of a VDC reading....you have a high resistance connection....that could be in EITHER END of the Cable.  OK....then, for KICKS....move the Alligator Clip to the CHASSIS and do the same.  That lets you compare them. 

Next up is to start on the Positive side of the House.  Start with the battery post....and go to the first lug or stud where the 4/0 cable is terminated.  Then move your alligator clip there and keep going.  I had an intermittent....and it would go away as I drove.  Never found it ...but it burned up a hydraulic slide motor. I actually added a Blue Seas Selector Switch and was running my slides off the Chassis.....not the HOUSE.  I was doing something right before I winterized....and for the HEX of it, I did a voltage drop test over the Blue Seas (OEM....HOUSE  CUTT OFF).  Bingo, it was in the Intermittent mode....and I found my half volt drop.  That has only taken 6 years to find....and that is NOT an exxageration.  I did the EVERY TERMINATION POINT voltage test with the slides moving and never found it.

FINALLY...  Look at your High Current Print(s).  You have TWO Salesman's switch solenoids. Put your VOM across the two studs.  If a drop....bad internal contacts.  They feed the House 12 VDC Distribution panel (you may have TWO).  They also feed the entire Multiplex Closet. There MAY (ARE) many  Circuit Breakers in the line. 

If you would isolate WHICH Intelltiec Module is flashing....then that helps narrow it down.  BUT, if this is a RECENT occurrence and all the lights are flickering, then that is PROBABLY a loose STUD NUT on a high current connection....and you have many of them. 

Good Luck....  Do this logically.  It will be LESS frustrating than just "OK....fix this cable...OK....replace this..."  A voltage drop test is the ONLY way to isolate....

[birdshill123]

Thanks Tom. Where are those 2 solenoids? In the rrb? Ido have the electrical diagrams but if it is complicated my  rain cannot handle a good diagnosis. I was going to do the common things first. Connections in the closet

 Maybe check all the grounds. The only lights in the closets are green. Don't have time to fool around for a few days. Will post any outcomes

Thanks

[Tom Cherry]

16 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

Thanks Tom. Where are those 2 solenoids? In the rrb? Ido have the electrical diagrams but if it is complicated my  rain cannot handle a good diagnosis. I was going to do the common things first. Connections in the closet

 Maybe check all the grounds. The only lights in the closets are green. Don't have time to fool around for a few days. Will post any outcomes

Thanks

Frank is tied up today but I got him to critique my original post....and then told him what I am going to post and he concurs....

• ODDS ARE....it is your bad (Negative Cable).  Therefore my two JUMPER CABLES between the Chassis and House will show that.  Again, this is not some pie in the sky theoretical....my Genny (House Cranks it) would not start.  House was NEW or almost.  I finally chased down a loose negative going to ground....by comparing voltage drops....when you pulled in and out the battery tray, you could start the genny....other times NOT.  I cleaned and redid the House Ground stud....BINGO nary an issue.  BUT, if you have a BAD cable, then jumpering and using the Chassis Ground should solve the problem....and you KNOW where to look first when you get HOME...You CAN leave the Negative Jumper in place (just secure it) and you will be good to go....temporarily.
• NO JOY ABOVE....then we BOTH agree you have a high resistance connection (which could be in a cable) OR it could be a high current connection in one of many places......BUT to specifically answer your question....the TWO LATCHING  Salesman Solenoids are in the RRB.  The Big Boy Boost Solenoid is there.  They are controlled by Board 6. There are two "REMOTE" buttons that allow you to test or turn them on.  NOW....the Latching style uses a PULSE on and then a PULSE off.  The Big Boy will always have voltage on the control or coil wire.
• NEXT UP....Likely SUSPECTS.  There is a "row" of Circuit Breakers in the bottom of the RRB.  Any LOOSE connection (tighten them ALL) will cause a high resistance (LOW VOLTAGE) connection.
• The power goes like this.  House Battery Disconnect Switch....that provides the High Current to the properly CB (bottom section), then the current flows through the Salesman Solenoids......and then....UP TO THE Intellitec Closte.  In the TOP there is also a "Row" of covey of Circuit Breakers.  Again, a loose stud or whatever....and LOW voltage.....then they feed EACH of the Intellitec Modules....and also there is a CB for the House Fuses....which is where, MOST LIKLEY, the Toilet is fused.
• Bottom Line....you have a VOLTAGE drop issue.  Gotta FIND IT.  If all this does not fix it, then you need to do voltage DROP as well as VOLTS to Ground on EVEREY High Current Stud in the Intellitec Closet....that includes the CB as well as the individual Modules

That's IT....and I now am more confident based on my trials and tribulations....as well as Frank's confirming some things and giving details.  Time to do the Jumper Cable test....and if that fixes it....go HOME and then find the cable or the loose high current stud....

[Bruce B]

I had something similar when I had an issue with the transfer switch, loose wire connections. 

[birdshill123]

We have been busy for the last week and I could not work on the Dynasty. It has been in my shop all this time. We were gone for 4 days so I used the saleman switch and for the first time. and  also turned off the  battery disconnects. Returned today and turned all the switches back on. Everything around the dash lights up . But none of the light switches in the rest of the coach work. No slides and no lights. I immediately thought of Tom's comments on the salesman solenoid. I think all of this is related  to my blinking lights(As Tom stated!!). I will open up the RRB tomorrow and see what I can find. Where is that solenoid.? It cannot be the 2 on either side of the Big Boy. While I am in there will make sure all terminals are tight

[Frank McElroy]

To be effective in helping, we first need to know if you have a conventional or chassis multiplex coach.  If you don't know, please post a picture of the RRB.

[birdshill123]

Hi Frank. My coach is just a house multiplex. Intellitec.

[Frank McElroy]

When you open the RRB, cycle the battery disconnect button on the small circuit board that controls the two latching relays.  Then measure to see if you have 12 volts on each side of the latching relays.  Also be sure none of the high current relays are tripped and that both battery disconnect switches are turned on.  A failing battery disconnect switch can also cause this problem.  Reading battery voltages on the two latching relays will provide lots of diagnostic info 

[birdshill123]

Must be a full moon with all the salesman switch problems. I followed Frank's instructions. I cycled the small switch on the board. The green light comes on for battery disconnect but goes out when you let go of the button. The iso relay light is on and shuts off when the batteries are charged No 12 volts on the right side of the  upper relay. I then applied 12 volts to the the right side of the relay. All the lights, etc. work. It is not very easy to just run a cable from one side of  

Sorry I did  not finish . Not enough room to attach a cable from one side of the relay to the other. But there is a copper  that runs from the allen head contact  bar at the bottom.  Are those wires attached to the contact strip the feeds to the circuit board? I could pick up 12 volts from the bottom contact bar and attach to the relay. Or is one of those wires on the bottom contact a feed from the house battery disconnect in the battery compartment.? I have not tested that house battery disconnect yet  as I have to remove 4 batteries. Hope this is clear.

Edited February 20, 2023 by birdshill123

[Frank McElroy]

Here's how the battery disconnect switch on that small board works.  Then you press the bat disc sw button, the yellow bat disc sw will light when the button is held in and either the green bat disc On or green bat disc Off LED will flash once.  Whichever led flashes will tell you the mode that the two latching relays are in.  They will either latch On or Off.

After the bat disc On LED flashes, check the voltage on the right side of the upper latching relay and the left side of the lower latching relay.  You should see battery voltage.  With the bat disc Off you should see power only on the left side of the upper latching relay and only on the right side of the lower latching relay.

Since you are losing house power, when power is lost, you likely won't see 12 volts on the right hand output side of the upper latching relay. 

On a Dynasty these latching relays rarely fail unless you are often cycling them often under high loads.  So, I'd just replace it with a new one.  But if you wanted to bypass it, remove the large cable from the right side and put it on the left side.

BTW, the upper latching relay feeds 12 volts house battery power to the house multiplex system.  The lower latching relay feeds house battery power to the FRB.

[birdshill123]

Thanks Frank. So if I understand  the 12 volt allen  head bus bar at the bottom is the 12 volt feed to the items listed on the bottom of  your diagram.  I am sure the relay is bad It does not latch. If I apply 12 volts to the right side terminal the lights all work. I think I will bypass it for now. I am in Mexico and doubt I could find that relay. I am surprised as I have never used it  until last week. Thanks for your help!!!

[Frank McElroy]

Yes, the listings on the bottom feed those circuits.  For completeness here is a larger view.  There are two feed connections to the RRB from the house and chassis batteries.

If you put a voltmeter on the two small wires going to the coil, you'll find on one side you'll get a 12 volts pulse to latch the relay On and a 12 volt pulse on the other wire to latch the relay Off.  If you replace that relay, be sure it is getting the correct voltage pulses to the relay coil.

[birdshill123]

Thanks Frank.

[birdshill123]

I think I made a mistake. I hooked up everything and I still had no lights or12 volts in the coach. I pushed the tiny battery disconnect and the light is not on. Tried 3 times. Then I smelled the dreaded electrical burning. I turnedoff the 2 battery switches and removed the grounds. I will add another photo of the board

The bottom  right of the board  has a small black rectangular item. It isstill intact. I have not checked to see if there is continuity to the board. I gave my other board to a friend so it could be repaired. He is in Yuma and could send it to Tucson.  But I am concerned that there  is something wrong. 

 

[Frank McElroy]

You bypassed the lower latching relay for the FRB.  You need to bypass the upper latching relay that feeds the house multiplex system.

[birdshill123]

Thanks Frank. So I should reconnect the wires on the lower relay and bypass the upper relay by moving the wire from the right side to the left. In one of my photos there is a heavy wire and a small purple wire going to the bottom copper bar. Is that correct. B When I bypassed the bottom relay could that have caused a short?? I hope the board will still work

[Frank McElroy]

Correct, on the upper latching relay move the large red cable from the right to left side.  The lower relay can stay as it is.  That circuit board should be just fine.  BTW, the ignition needs to be on for the LEDs to light up.