Bill R Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 49 minutes ago, jjroxus said: How would I go about testing the turbo actuator? @jacwjamesis dead on with recommending to go to Quickserve for this procedure. I recently tested mine and Quickserve was tremendous. There are different types of turbo actuators. Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT) or Wastegate actuator. Also, pneumatic, electronic or combo. This is how Quickserve can narrow in for you on your engine. Mine turned out to be a VGT with an electronically controlled pneumatic actuator. Let us know what you find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Although this doesn't apply to the OPs coach, on 2008 and newer engines with an electronic turbo actuator, the engine will do a diagnostic self check when the key is first turned on before starting the engine. If the turbo doesn't travel full range and move to the engine start position it will set a fault code 3616. This is an informational fault code and it won't turn on the check engine light. But if the problem doesn't self correct, when the engine temp gets above 165dF, fault code 3616 will become inactive and fault code 2347 will become active and turn on the check engine light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jacwjames said: Do you have a Cummins Quickserve account. There are maintenance manuals on line that you can access. I had downloaded the ones for my 8.3 ISC several years ago, I checked and there is a complete section on how to test the actuator. 1 hour ago, jacwjames said: Do you have a Cummins Quickserve account. There are maintenance manuals on line that you can access. I had downloaded the ones for my 8.3 ISC several years ago, I checked and there is a complete section on how to test the actuator. Jim J, so you took the free subscription and downloaded it? Is there a time frame for the use? Gary 05 AMB DST Edited February 18, 2023 by Gary 05 AMB DST better explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said: Jim J, so you took the free subscription and downloaded it? Is there a time frame for the use? Gary 05 AMB DST I've had an account with the Cummins Quickserve site since 2011. No time frame that I'm aware of. Just have to create an account and register your engine SN. It's a great resource. They have changed it a little though, I was able to download the entire maintenance manual for my engine. Now you can't download the manual, you can search/read it. When I search for info I will print to PDF, I have dozens of documents for parts and or troubleshooting tips that I've saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoaks5 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 16 hours ago, jjroxus said: How would I go about testing the turbo actuator? I agree with the others and would look on quickserve. I followed their guides on trying to figure out what was wrong with mine the first time. But ended up running out of time and took it to Cummins to at least diagnose. If you have a cummins motor or generator I would definitely get a quick serve account. They have tons of info on there and it's specific to your motor. Another coach I owned had an ISC. It died on me about ten miles from home once. Had 2 diesel tech come out and look at it. That just cost me $300 for nothing. My brother said have Zach look at it. His son that was in college to be a diesel mechanic. He looked some things over and said let's take the valve cover of and take a look. We did and found a roller rocket had fallen off. Put it back on and started it up and drove it to my shop. I ended up having to put a new cam in it. Quickserve had step by step instructions on how to do it. It was excellent and I did it myself but following the instructions on qs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Is Quickserve still joinable? I looked up the site and they offered access to their information at $50/1 week, $200/1 month and $1200/1 year. I had a Cummins membership a few years ago but was told that it was discontinued. Gary 05 AMB DST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 I did a search on IRV2 and found this post form an owner with a ISM500. About half way through another owner jumped in who was also having a trouble with boost pressure. https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/500hp-turbo-problems-150520.html Both had taken their rigs to Cummins shop with no resolution to the problem, engine was not throwing codes. In the end the one individual changed the boost and temp sensor and that solved the problem. It you go to the Cummins Quickserve site you can to a parts lookup that will list all the sensors for your engine. If you can find this it will have part numbers and you can do a search to see what they look like. Further searching on Quickserve you can find other documents that will show locations etc. Attached is a copy of what I have on my rig, I'm sure your's would be different but Quickserve should have it. On my engine some of the sensors are hard to find, one of which is the barometric pressure sensor which is not on/in the engine but mounted remotely. A while back on IRV2 someone was having trouble and finally found this sensor was the cause and posted pictures/location which I saved to my files for future reference. Control Module sensors 3408429 oil pressure sensor.pdf 4 minutes ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said: Is Quickserve still joinable? I looked up the site and they offered access to their information at $50/1 week, $200/1 month and $1200/1 year. I had a Cummins membership a few years ago but was told that it was discontinued. Gary 05 AMB DST Try to join, when you create an account it will ask for a business, just make one up. As far as I know it is still free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMonaco Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 The Low power and warning light Saga on my 2002 Cummins ISM CM570 continues... Sorry, this is getting long! --Recap: I have an intermittent 123 error code. (Low signal detected at the intake manifold pressure circuit) I drained a little fuel from the secondary fuel filter -no water. The coach starts right up. Don't think I have a fuel pressure shortage issue I also checked for leaks in the CAC, hoses, etc. No visual defects or leaking air sounds when the engine was running. On a test drive yesterday the coach would only get up to about 60 mph max. That took two miles to get up to that speed with very very slow acceleration. The jake brake is not working. According to my users' manual, the ECM shuts down the Jake brake when depowering the engine when it sees an error code. The cruise control works fine. Max boost pressure is 7.5 with accelerator to the wood. On this test drive the warning light flickered a few times and then went off within the first mile. In the middle of the test drive, I did stop and shut down the engine and then restarted - no more warning lights. When I got home I shut down the engine and then did the dash blink error code check and it was clear - no errors. This morning I tested the jake brake foot switch (New Pac Footswitch a couple of months ago) to confirm it was passing 12+volts. It's working. When I turned the key to the on-position the warning light was on again. The coach had been sitting in the driveway overnight. I did the dash error code blink test and got the same 123 error code again? Next, I removed the flexible intake hose from the new air filter, so I could see if that made a difference in power, etc. Then I started the engine, let it build up pressure and the warning light stayed on. I drove the same route as before-about 6 miles. The warning light would blink as I pushed down the accelerator driving down the residential road to the highway. The warning light would go away for a few seconds and come back on as soon as I removed my foot from the accelerator. It did this for the first mile or so. When I got on the highway and got the speed above 35 mph, the warning light went off and stayed off. When I got home I shut down the engine and let it sit for a couple of minutes and then restarted it. No warning light. I'm ruling out a restriction in the incoming air to the new air filter. Just to make sure, I did the dash blink error code check again- no errors. The Cruise control worked fine, but still no jake brake. Max speed 58 mph today. Boost pressure max 7.5. What should it be? One thing I noted when at idle the boost pressure is at zero and does not move if I rev up the engine while in neutral. Is that normal? I'm hoping this is not a turbo issue as I don't think I have the knowledge to troubleshoot or repair that myself. I read all the posts that have come through and really appreciate all the advice and input. I have a registered Cummins account. However, could not get it to accept my password and got locked out trying to get a free Quickserve account. At this point, I am still thinking the ECM has depowered the engine due to some electrical issue with a sensor. Since the warning light was on again in the morning after the motor cooled down overnight and then it goes away when the motor comes up to temperature, could that be a sensor problem-temperature or intake pressure, or that barometric sensor mentioned in one of the posts? Unfortunately, I am stuck for a while waiting for my Quickserve account to open up. I would like to get an electrical schematic, error code list, and service manual so I can see about ordering a few new sensors and give that a try. The engine is an ISM CM750 if anyone has any PDF's they could post it would be much appreciated. Thank Again, JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHend Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 123 fault will clear after three successful run cycles if everything is in range. Replace the intake temp/pressure sensor and if it still doesn’t work, start tracing back the wiring. Most likely either too low of voltage or shorted Edited February 18, 2023 by BradHend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMonaco Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Brad, Thanks for this info. It's a bit hard to read but I think I can get the info I need. Will get back to you. JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHend Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Yes, I don’t know why it went in blurry. If you click on each picture it is slightly clearer. 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMonaco Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 I was able to get a the Cummins account and setup a free Quickserve account. From there I looked up the 123 error code. The symptoms of the 123 code mirror the issue the coach is having. I followed the troubleshooting directions and tested the voltage at the intake manifold sensor and found it to be 4.9 volts - which is in range and indicates the ECM is sending the correct voltage. (To test the voltage: with the ignition key off, you remove the wiring harness connector from the manifold pressure sensor, there are three wire terminals in line in the plug, very carefully connect your volt meter to the two outside terminals leaving the middle one alone, I used two sections from a small paper clip to insert in the connector and attached to my volt meter with jumper wires, then turn the ignition key on, correct voltage is between 4.75 to 5.2 volts DC) This tells me the sensor is bad. (I’m hoping) Since there are two sensors on the manifold, I ordered both a new a manifold pressure sensor and a manifold temp sensor. I am enclosing a engine diagram photo from my ISM 500 owners manual. Number 3 and 4 are the sensors I am replacing. I will report back when I have them installed. Thanks again for all the comments, suggestions, etc…. JJ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Glad you were able to create and access Qucikserve, it is a great resource. I created an account on the Cummins Quickserve site in 2011 and have used it quite a bit. When I read posts of people having problems with a similar engine I will take a deeper dive into the Quickserve site. If it is fault code related I'll do a lookup on it and print the information to a PDF and save in my Engine folder. I also downloaded a complete maintenance manual, which is hard to do now but you can still search/read sections. Comes in handy if you are on the internet trying to find stuff. Keep us posted on your fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMonaco Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 The parts came yesterday from Advanced Truck Parts USA in FT Lauderdale, Florida-only $68. with shipping. I installed the new Boost Temperature sensor - Advance Truck Parts 3085185 Cummins Engine Air Temperature Sensor (#3 on the engine diagram ) and the Intake manifold pressure sensor -Advance Truck Parts 4921493 Cummins Pressure Sensor (#4 on the engine diagram). That solved the lack of power problem. Yahoo! The two sensors were an easy install on my 2002 Signature. The area on the engine where they are located is easily accessible from the floor access doors in the aft closet. However, the Jake Brake is still not working. I had assumed this was a result of the ECM depowering the engine. I was wrong about that. I have checked for 12v being passed through at the new Pac brake foot switch. That's doing its job, so on to more troubleshooting... A BIG -Thank You- to all who contributed to this post. There is a lot of good information here for future reference. I will start a new post concerning the Jake Brake troubleshooting on my 2002 Signature and look forward to your help. All The Best, JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 On my 2002 Windsor I have a PacBrake BUT in the #2 Monaco small fuse box in the front drivers side run bay I have a 20 amp fuse and two relays for the brake. You may have a similar configuration even with the Jake Brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMonaco Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 Jim J, Thanks for all your thoughts. I want you to know that I got the Jake Brake working today. Thanks to you! I started my Jake Brakevtroubleshooting again today by double checking all the wiring. I checked the foot switch again and under the drivers side arm rest and found nothing out of order. I happened to read your post on my phone while working on the project. Based on your suggestion about the fuses on your coach, I checked every fuse in the Front Run Panel for the third time. However this time, I decided to use my volt meter to check both sides of the spade connector while having the ignition key turned on, to verify continuity through the fuse. Sure enough I found a 4amp fuse, #10 on panel # 2, not be conducting. It was a corrosion issue. I got my can of de-Ox it out and cleaned all thirty six blade fuses and fuse receptacles. Unfortunately I do not have a diagram of what each fuse does in the FRP, so I have to check each blade fuse when there is a suspected issue. That did the trick…Finally after another test drive, my 2002 Signature Jake Brake is back working great. It’s been a long time coming! Thanks again! I consider this post now closed. JJ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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