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aux air compressor for air leveling


grizzly
Go to solution Solved by Tom Cherry,

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39 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I'm guessing that's what Monaco is calling them.

My Scepter only has one. Real close to the aux compressor.

Frank MeElroy has posted a lot on this .  Do a Search.  The number of tanks and where they are located depends on the models.  On the Camelots and the Scepters, there is only one Combo Tank up front....and all the air bleeds are there.  On the Dynasty and higher there MAY (IS? Probably?) separate tanks.  I KNOW there is a bleed valve or drain for the REAR tank on the Dynasty and higher.  

But on the Camelots and probably most of the lower food chains, all the bleeds are on the front.

https://www.rvtechlibrary.com/chassis/airbrakes101.php#:~:text=The first tank that the,pair of secondary air tanks.

To be clear, the Aux Compressor....whether in the rear like on the Dynasty and UP....which COULD or COULD NOT have a bleed (the NON AIR DRYER TYPE will also have a REAR BLEED....close to the rear tank drain) or the Camelots where the Aux Compressor is located in front of the steps and up and has a reservoir with a screw type "Home Air Compressor Drain is NOT part of the Main Air System.  YES, the leveling system uses the Main Air Brake system for leveling.....but the Front Aux Compressor's reservoir or if there is one in the rear, is not considered to be the PING tank....

Past that, read Frank's comments....

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There are a number of configurations Monaco used over the years on how Monaco did the air leveling systems.  I'll make a few generalizations.

On the HWH systems typically the steer axle air bags were fed from the front air tank and the rear air bags from the rear air tank.  When air pressure dropped below about 90 lbs, the aux air compressor kicked in and supplied air dirctly only to the manifolds controlling the  valves to the air bags.  There are check valves on each dry tank so no air from the aux compressor entered these tanks.  BTW this aux compressor basically had its own separate air drier with a solenoid drain valve.

On the newer Power Gear systems, on Dynasty's and above another small air tank was added by the rear air tank.  This small air tank is fed by the "rear" air tank (Tom, on your Camelot I believe you "rear" air tank is located up front along with the small air tank).  All air bag manifolds are fed from this small air tank.  Once air in the small air tank gets low enough, the auxiliary compressor kicks in.  Since there is a check valve between the small tank and the rear air tank no air enters the rear air tank from the aux air compressor.  The aux air compressor is mounted up front mainly because Monaco had too many complaints with the rear aux compressors waking you up at night.  Now, the Power Gear aux compressor does NOT have an air dryer.  That's why you should periodically drain this small tank using the rear drain valve if you hear the aux compressor running a lot in the auto level mode.

I have the power gear system.  Since my coach stays level for months, after I level the coach, I turn off the auto level system.

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Ping tanks add air volume to the airbags.  There are large diameter hoses that go from these ping tanks to the airbags for rapid air movement.  Ping tanks soften the ride.  Dynasty only has ping tanks on the steer axle.

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37 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Ping tanks add air volume to the airbags.  There are large diameter hoses that go from these ping tanks to the airbags for rapid air movement.  Ping tanks soften the ride.  Dynasty only has ping tanks on the steer axle.

Right before I retired from my occupation running a paper machine, we were in the process of installing a couple of large 'ping' tanks to the very large air bags that load / unload a press roll.

I was gone before they were put into service, and never got to see what difference they would make! 

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27 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Thanks Frank!

So, that air schematic that Jeff posted isn't showing the aux air compressor and tank(s)?

Take a look at page 12 in the attached link in our Downloads.  This is a generic diagram.  On the Dynasty's and above for the PowerGear system Monaco mounted that separate air tank on the DS above the drive axle next to the frame rail and the Aux Air pump on the DS steer axle H frame.  On the Camelots, both the aux pump and tank were on the PS by the steer axle.

 

Here is a picture of that small air tank on my coach.

 

IMG_20150803_103550026.jpg

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17 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, I've got the same tank, only mounted vertically.

How do you drain moisture out of yours, or is the picture rotated? It looks like it's mounted horizontal with no drain on the bottom.

Horizontal - tank bracket is mounted to the side of the frame rail.  It's hard to see but there is a black line on each end of the air tank.  One is the feed from the Aux Compressor. Line on the other end of the tank goes to the air manifolds.  Red line off the bottom is the drain line.  I really should relocate the green lines coming rear dry tank to the side of the small tank where the aux compressor enters and not the bottom.  Since I basically never use my Aux Compressor, I never got around to properly relocating that air line.

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OK update on my system. I went under and traced everything and here is what I got in the front. 1 big main air tank that has 2 small air lines that feed the 2 ping tanks( 1 on each side) FYI no drains on ping tanks. Out of the ping tank, which  is set horizontal, I have 2 big air lines, 1 on each end ,that go to the air bags and a small air line that goes to the control valves.  Out of the aux compressor I have 1 line that goes to air filter. Out of the tee , 1 small line goes to pressure switch and 1 small line goes up and backwards into the channel of frame and can't find where it is going. Maybe to the rear? Can't tell.Doesnt go anywhere up front that I can see. So I am confused totally. Nothing has been changed since we bought the coach and everything worked fine until about 6 mom ago and now pump comes on and runs a very long time. Comes on a lot, more when it is cold. Possibly aux compressor is wearing out? Still doesn't explain why I comes on so much now. Turned the leveling system off and waiting to see if compressor comes on. Any suggestions?

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1 hour ago, grizzly said:

OK update on my system. I went under and traced everything and here is what I got in the front. 1 big main air tank that has 2 small air lines that feed the 2 ping tanks( 1 on each side) FYI no drains on ping tanks. Out of the ping tank, which  is set horizontal, I have 2 big air lines, 1 on each end ,that go to the air bags and a small air line that goes to the control valves.  Out of the aux compressor I have 1 line that goes to air filter. Out of the tee , 1 small line goes to pressure switch and 1 small line goes up and backwards into the channel of frame and can't find where it is going. Maybe to the rear? Can't tell.Doesnt go anywhere up front that I can see. So I am confused totally. Nothing has been changed since we bought the coach and everything worked fine until about 6 mom ago and now pump comes on and runs a very long time. Comes on a lot, more when it is cold. Possibly aux compressor is wearing out? Still doesn't explain why I comes on so much now. Turned the leveling system off and waiting to see if compressor comes on. Any suggestions?

Reread a few posts up where I explained where the small rear tank is located.  If your coach is holding level, then likely the check valve at the compressor head has failed.

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Don't know if they gave you the same compressor they gave me, but I can lose air big time, bleeding back through the compressor!

Recently, after filling the leveling tank to 120psi, I got out of the coach, and could hear it leaking! Right out the air intake on the aux compressor!

I don't have a check valve at the compressor outlet. I have a valve where the pressure from the compressor enters the leveling tank. This valve has a 'cracking' pressure, where if the pressure behind it, get's a little lower than the pressure ahead of it, it will open to equalize the pressure!

Seem's silly, but they were counting on the compressor to not allow air to bleed back thru!

Edited by 96 EVO
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12 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Don't know if they gave you the same compressor they gave me, but I can lose air big time, bleeding back through the compressor!

Recently, after filling the leveling tank to 120psi, I got out of the coach, and could hear it leaking! Right out the air intake on the aux compressor!

I don't have a check valve at the compressor outlet. I have a valve where the pressure from the compressor enters the leveling tank. This valve has a 'cracking' pressure, where if the pressure behind it, get's a little lower than the pressure ahead of it, it will open to equalize the pressure!

Seem's silly, but they were counting on the compressor to not allow air to bleed back thru!

I wish I could find it, but there was a mistake in some of the 2009 Camelots that may have dated back to 2008.  We had folks that replumbed the system.  It was not anything drastic.  If you google Camelot Air Leaks or Camelot auxiliary compressor diagram or similar, then I think you will find it on IRV or so.  The plumbing change was found and folks did them many years ago on the old site.  I never kept a copy of the diagram as mine was correctly installed.

I think that he looked at the HWH and also called Valid and got the diagram and then installed it.  I THINK that he either added or replaced or maybe moved a check valve.

I did search the files....but it is not there.  I did a lot of googling and your issue is discussed on IRV2....so that's as much help as I can offer.

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Yeah, believe they are moving the check valve from behind the pressure switch, to ahead of the pressure switch.

I've done fine with the way they plumbed mine 'IF' my compressor isn't allowing air to bleed back thru it. Like 10 days with the leveling system in 'Auto', before the aux compressor needed to start!

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31 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

I think this is the modification you are referring to.

Screenshot_20230212-123559.png

That is the way mine is plumbed. It was closer last night and lost air quicker for some reason. I must have a faulty check valve is what I am thinking

any ideas why leveling system looses air when we have colder nights? Not below freezing but mid to high 30s

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After all this discussion, I decided to do some investigative work.  On my system, the output from the pump located on the steer axle H frame goes to a tee with one side having the pressure switch and the other side going to a small air tank in the rear above the drive axle.  This tank has a check valve on it.  There is NO external check valve on the pump.  But any time my pump ran it ran long enough to fill that small air tank - no short cycling.  So, I assumed there had to be an internal check valve.  And YES there is an internal check valve inside the pump head.

In the pictures, you'll see the metal reed valves and the output valve seals on an o-ring.  One picture shows the before and after I cleaned it.  If that o-ring seal is good, it will act as a good check valve and the pump will build pressure faster.  My bet is that your problem is a dirty o-ring seal on the reed valves inside the pump head.

That's why I never liked that modification to add an external check valve after the pump.  All it does is to mask a problem with the internal check valve leaking.  When it leaks the pump takes longer to build pressure.

PXL_20230212_200624185.jpg

PXL_20230212_200633204.jpg

PXL_20230212_201454962.jpg

PXL_20230212_201636851.jpg

PXL_20230212_201651052.jpg

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57 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Great investigative reporting Frank 👍!

Mine must be sometimes sealing, other times not!

I tend to agree with both of you.  There have been very few issues with the Aux Compressors in the Camelot/Scepters…..usually a blown use or perpetually a bad pressure switch.  Mine still works fine.  But I don’t use it.  It only comes on if I tweak or do something and turn back on the Valid system.  I’d download the manual and then do some looking and replace or rebuild the check valve.

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