Does the 2008 Monaco Camelot have oil bath front hubs?

[JohnC3]

This is strange. Took my 2008 Camelot in for maintenance and one of the items I saw in the on owners manual was to repack the front hubs. The service manager told me I have oil bath front hubs that don't need repacking. I know oil bath hubs are better (easier/cheaper to maintain). Can someone tell me if these were std on the camalots or how to determine if I have oil bath hubs without taking off the wheel?

Thanks,

John

[Ivan K]

Take the little center cap off. If you see a hub cover with a plug in the center, it is oil bath, or at least oil bath ready, should see oil through the transparent center.

[Tom Cherry]

20 minutes ago, JohnC3 said:

This is strange. Took my 2008 Camelot in for maintenance and one of the items I saw in the on owners manual was to repack the front hubs. The service manager told me I have oil bath front hubs that don't need repacking. I know oil bath hubs are better (easier/cheaper to maintain). Can someone tell me if these were std on the camalots or how to determine if I have oil bath hubs without taking off the wheel?

Thanks,

John

IN A WORD....NOPE....NADA NYET... 

To the best of my knowledge, the Camelots as well as MOST, if not all, Monaco came with grease packed front wheel bearings.  If yours has such, then that is a $400 aftermarket upgrade that many do. There is a Ford vx Chevy debate here.  Some folks believe that is the ONLY way to ensure never having a problem.  Others believe that if you do normal PM and make sure that the bearings are properly repacked maybe every 35 - 45K, then that is best.

Some will also use their laser thermometer and shoot the front wheels at every rest stop....  Some of the newer TPMS have temp sensors that are now capable of giving a real ambient temperature.....the older ones just displayed the temp in blocks....like 40 & 70 & 90 Blocks.  

These TPMS sensors are measuring the ambient temperature inside the "hole" where the TPMS is located.  they do NOT measure the internal tire pressure or temperature....like the OEM;s that have the sensor on bands inside the wheel.  I use my Pressure Pro Pulse as an early warning indicator.....YES, the temperature varies based on ambient and brake friction (heat - usage).  BUT if both sides are within a few degrees....it WILL vary by which side the sun is on....THEN that is my early warning indicator....

[96 EVO]

Did this service manager actually look?

Unless a previous owner had them installed, you have grease packed front hubs.

[Rocketman3]

On my 2000 Dynasty- I have oil bearings. My understanding was it was an ordered option. 
 

From what I know about the two prior owners of my rig - I would highly doubt they paid to install them aftermarket- but it would not surprise me if it came that way from the factory. 

[Tom Cherry]

15 minutes ago, Rocketman3 said:

On my 2000 Dynasty- I have oil bearings. My understanding was it was an ordered option. 
 

From what I know about the two prior owners of my rig - I would highly doubt they paid to install them aftermarket- but it would not surprise me if it came that way from the factory. 

One would have to look at the BUILD sheet and also know what the SPECIAL options were. I have reached out to a buddy that was an HR General Manager for many years and ordered Navigators for NASCAR Drivers where the MSRP was almost $850 K (He had Intellitec to special make or replace the Neon lights with a certain color as he was superstitious).....THAT IS NO JOKE....I saw the MH before it was delivered).  He will know as he was a long time dealer prior to the bankruptcy....Will Update...

[96 EVO]

26 minutes ago, Rocketman3 said:

On my 2000 Dynasty- I have oil bearings. My understanding was it was an ordered option. 
 

From what I know about the two prior owners of my rig - I would highly doubt they paid to install them aftermarket- but it would not surprise me if it came that way from the factory. 

My reply was limited to the '08 Camelot / Scepter models.

Don't know what they installed on other year / models.

[Dr4Film]

My 2002 Windsor had grease in the front hubs when purchased in 2003. Sometime later around 75K on the odo, I had a shop in San Fernando Valley change them over to oil with new bearings.

My 2006 Dynasty has oil in the front & tag axle hubs. So much easier to maintain.

[Tom Cherry]

16 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

One would have to look at the BUILD sheet and also know what the SPECIAL options were. I have reached out to a buddy that was an HR General Manager for many years and ordered Navigators for NASCAR Drivers where the MSRP was almost $850 K (He had Intellitec to special make or replace the Neon lights with a certain color as he was superstitious).....THAT IS NO JOKE....I saw the MH before it was delivered).  He will know as he was a long time dealer prior to the bankruptcy....Will Update...

Morning UPDATE.

Based on the responses I got offline and also doing some reading and then my brain kicking in and a detailed discussion with a resident expert....here is the consensus.  NOW, before the Cruise Missiles are launched....this is the BEST synopsis and individuals have differing opinions as well as experience...but this is from several Monaco resources....and my Buddy was probably one of the "Highest End....Custom Monaco Dealers"....without going to the Bus Conversion that Monaco made.  He ordered MH's for the Crew Chiefs and the lower end drivers or just coming on the team.  

Monaco never had a special order option for Oil Bath steer axles.  Now....did Monaco ever BUILD a model that DID....?? Probably NOT, but with Monaco you never say  NEVER.  The reason was two fold.  BEAN COUNTERS is the primary one....and that starts later....and my Buddy goes back to the mid 1990's.....and he was an HR dealer....but the Exec and Navigators were the same....

If Monaco offered an oil bath, they had to have it in stock.  That would mean quite a large Duplicate Inventory of Steer Axles....and Monaco actually was a "Special" purchaser of Axles and Differentials.  When REV took over, they destroyed all the Roadmaster Tooling and EVERYTHING associated.....BUT....NOT the Axles (Steer and Drive...)  They were trying to return them....and even offering a substantial restocking....  What I was told was the answer was NO..  The axles were STILL packed and on pallets just like they left the factory.  They had some Monaco Tweaks (remember the fact that Monaco ordered 23K rears when the Fed Law was 20K).  SO, even Monaco would NOT have had duplicates in stock.

NOW....if your owner's manual shows OIL as Standard or Oil as an option....in the older days... the Monaco Manuals were like the World Book Encyclopedia....then you DO have a factory Oil Bath.  BUT, bear in mind....in most cases....unless there was a chassis or model where OIL was standard, it might have been a Monaco "Upgrade" by a private shop.....PRIOR TO DELIVERY....or the Dealer had them upgraded locally prior to delivery....  Like adding a set of Tyron Bands to a NEW MH

The ODDS of them being FACTORY as in DANA original Oil Bath are slim and NONE.....based on the stocking and inventory costs....

NOW....this also, unfortunately....since it has a lot of comments, brings up a practical question.  To OIL or GREASE.  If you call Dana/TRW or other steer axle manufacturers, the recommendation is STAY WITH GREASE IF YOU ARE A TYPICAL MH OWNER.  You can read and research this....yourself.  The reason, the heavier (again...STEER not TAG) axle spindle will eventually, during long periods of use, take a SET (Dimple) and be MORE PRONE TO LEAK.  Add in the Higher temps that the Front axle (assembly) gets from the Disc Brakes and the constant flexing....then you have a HIGHER potential for LEAKS.  There are many tales on the other forums of failure..  Some "Internet Chatter....beware" talk about Spartan chassis that were swapped back to Grease due to failures of the OPTIONAL oil bath.

Recommended practice....is....OIL is great for an OTR rig....it is constantly running.  Oil saves a great deal of maintenance costs....rather that repacking.  BUT, MH owners rarely run their rigs like that....so Oil may not be what you want.  BUT, if you drive your rig routinely, then you keep randomly changing the WEIGHT spot.  SO...the call is yours.  There are those that believe in repacking per the Monaco Manual  I and others have talked to Dana.  They say that Monaco COPIED the OEM charts and they really do NOT have a MH (occassional use) chart....so the data may be wrong.  I had mine repacked around 50K or so....when I swapped out the Rear End fluid.  I will have them repacked at 100K.....

I did get one salient point to illustrate what Monaco did.  My buddy was probably one of the "most unusual" Monaco special order dealers.  He dealt with a Multi Car and Multi Circuit (Trucks and the Busch) teams.  The entry drivers could NOT afford a Bus Conversion....and most crew chiefs for even the "Cup" could not.  BUT, if you are running say 12 OTR rigs...and you have a backup as well but your Hauler needs to be at a a track on every Thursday for 40 odd weeks....you DO THE MAINTENANCE.  Same for the MH's of the team and driver.  SO, the MH's he ordered were high mileage ones....very high.  The same shops that maintained the OTR rigs also maintained the MH.  So, when he never ordered, to the best of his memory....and does not remember an Oil Bath option....that is pretty good info.  He DID have contacts beyond a lot of dealers and Monaco DID have, earlier, an extensive "CUSTOM" team....like changing the LED (Neon?) colors of the Intellitec Switch pads....but NEVER a comment about OIL BATHS....

That's it....

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

My 2002 Windsor had grease in the front hubs when purchased in 2003. Sometime later around 75K on the odo, I had a shop in San Fernando Valley change them over to oil with new bearings.

My 2006 Dynasty has oil in the front & tag axle hubs. So much easier to maintain.

I had my 2002 Windsor converter to oil bath in 2013, made an appointment a Josam's and my wife actually took it in.  They took care of it and treated her great, even let her have all her dogs in the lounge area, did a chassis inspection and corrected a couple minor issues.  Cost was ~$450.

The copy of the Roadmaster lubrication manual says to do a repack annually or 30K miles, whichever comes first.  Wonder how many owners do this??

When I first bought our rig I took to Cummins for a service and they did it and then after  I would pull the caps and check and had a long horse syringe that I'd insert in the end of my grease gun and add some grease.  I did this for 4 years at which point I thought it was time for either a repack or oil bath conversion. 

I do not have the equipment (or desire) to pull the front wheel hub (I do know how to do it).   The risk of damaging a wheel seal is pretty high trying to manhandle something that large and heavy.  And the problem is you wouldn't know if a seal is damaged until after it's slung grease out and compromising the brake pads.   This holds true if you do it yourself or if it is done in a shop. 

So I opted for the oil bath conversion.  Now I can visually check oil level easily.  When I had them changed I called and talked to a Josum rep and he said I shouldn't have to worry about ever changing but last year I did drain most of the oil out and topped it off again. 

 

[Ivylog]

I own a bunch of different size trailers… single axle to 20T. Instead of repacking and after making sure the wheel bearings are tight, I put 90 weight gear oil in the cap and slap it back on… been doing this for decades. Can’t do that on our Monaco’s so I drill a hole in the end of the cap, thread it for a 1/4” pipe plug. I put about a cup of 90 in to soften the grease, but not enough to have it leak past the seal. I check wheel bearing tightness when changing tires.

[Steve P]

Quote

Oil bath or greased bearings?

Note: I bought this beast with 69K miles and it now has 79,478.  The previous owner's records were thin, and there's no indication that the bearings have ever been repacked.  We run close to the max weight of 33K pounds most of the time, so it seems prudent to repack them.  Thoughts?

Yes,  I'm beginning to pay attention to recurring/preventative maintenance (multiple emergency repairs took precedence), and bearings are moving near the top of the list.  I will be pulling the covers / hubcaps today to determine what type of bearings I have... and then doing whatever needs to be done or getting it done by my local trucking company buddy. 

Question: on my Monaco Knight (no tag axle), are the rear axle bearings the same and is the process the same (repack if they are not oil bath)?  Or something elsej?

Another question: I am a little skittish about having this done -- something I read in this post about getting the assembly back in place just so, or it could actually increase the wear?  What's that about and how do I determine it is being done right?

 

[96 EVO]

Your drive axle wheel bearings get lubricated from the gear oil in the differential.

As long as the level in the diff doesn't drop too low, your good!

The differential fluid does need to be drained and replaced periodically!

[Tom Cherry]

28 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Your drive axle wheel bearings get lubricated from the gear oil in the differential.

As long as the level in the diff doesn't drop too low, your good!

The differential fluid does need to be drained and replaced periodically!

Read the manual.  There is a detailed instruction, maybe with pictures, on how to test.  Most folks switch to a Synthetic when they drain and refill.  NOTE....this is NOT the stuff that NAPA or Autozone sells for CARS.  It is a special heavy duty oil.  I used the Mobil Delvac.  It is rated for TRUCK/BUS rear ends.  Some of the super Hot Rod or Performance oils are for LIGHTER DUTY....so they are no acceptable.

Mobil Delvac 1™ Gear Oil 75W-90

I did mine circa 50K and don't intend to ever do it again.  The synthetic will last a LONG, LONG time... I googled it and found a company, think they are still in existance, in "Ohio" or somewhere in the midwest.  They sell a pallet with FOUR 4 Gallon containers.  That did mine....tech said...barely...but OK.

 

[Steve P]

I just re-read the manual... it says to change the rear differential fluid every 250,000 mi or 3 years.  It also says to use approx 15 qts of "API GL-5 or MT-1 type gear lubricant - Penzoil Gear Plus SUPER-ew 75w-90, Synthetic".  So far, best price on a synthetic of that description (not Penzoil) is $151.98 for four gallons, plus shipping. Unbelievable!  

I'll keep price hunting, but having had the coach 3 years myself, it's definitely time to change the differential oil for peace of mind if nothing else.  It may not have EVER been changed!

Thanks,

Steve

[Ivylog]

I decided to pull the front axle cap that I put half a cup of 90 in, instead of repacking 3 years ago. Slight amount of liquid seeped out and the grease was soft and pliable. Decided to put a little more 90 in. 
Another member (on FB) suggested putting the oil bath caps on so you can see how much gear oil you’re putting in and later, how pliable the grease has become…pretty good idea.

Tealize doing this is “Shade Tree” and not for everyone or anyone. Might want to read my post above.

6 minutes ago, Steve P said:

I just re-read the manual... it says to change the rear differential fluid every 250,000 mi or 3 years.    It may not have EVER been changed!

Thanks,

Steve

Guess the 04 Dynasty (still in the family from new) is 17 years behind on changing and next year will be 18, and the next…20 years behind. Might get motivated to send off a oil sample or not.

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, Steve P said:

I just re-read the manual... it says to change the rear differential fluid every 250,000 mi or 3 years.  It also says to use approx 15 qts of "API GL-5 or MT-1 type gear lubricant - make Penzoil Gear Plus SUPER-ew 75w-90, Synthetic".  So far, best price on a synthetic of that description (not Penzoil) is $151.98 for four gallons, plus shipping. Unbelievable!  

I'll keep price hunting, but having had the coach 3 years myself, it's definitely time to change the differential oil for peace of mind if nothing else.  It may not have EVER been changed!

Thanks,

Steve

I can’t say anything buy WOW.  I ordered 16 quarts or 4 gallons of Mobil Delvac HD or “OTR” rated for around the same price in early 2018.  If thr Penzoil meets the same “specs” as the Delvac, then go for it.  I tried to find the SAE specs for the Penzoil….

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-businesses/heavy-duty-lubricants/products/mobil-delvac-1-gear-oil-75w-90

Note the specs that the Delvac meets….including Dana….just make sure that the Penzoil is the same…we have, as posted, had folks that bought an automotive grade….put it in….and then had to drop it and put in the correct..

I didn’t see the same SAE SPECS HERE….just my looking…..

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/other-oils-fluids-fuel/manual-transmission-fluids-axle-oils/platinum-gear-75w-90.html

 

[96 EVO]

6 hours ago, Ivylog said:

 

 Dynasty (still in the family from new) is 17 years behind on changing and next year will be 18, and the next…20 years behind. Might get motivated to send off a oil sample or not.

Yeah, I'm thinking the majority of vehicles on the road go their entire life running the factory fill of Differential gear oil! 

[Steve P]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

I can’t say anything buy WOW.  I ordered 16 quarts or 4 gallons of Mobil Delvac HD or “OTR” rated for around the same price in early 2018.  If thr Penzoil meets the same “specs” as the Delvac, then go for it.  I tried to find the SAE specs for the Penzoil….

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-businesses/heavy-duty-lubricants/products/mobil-delvac-1-gear-oil-75w-90

Note the specs that the Delvac meets….including Dana….just make sure that the Penzoil is the same…we have, as posted, had folks that bought an automotive grade….put it in….and then had to drop it and put in the correct..

I didn’t see the same SAE SPECS HERE….just my looking…..

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/other-oils-fluids-fuel/manual-transmission-fluids-axle-oils/platinum-gear-75w-90.html

 

Tom - I don't follow... the Mobil Delvac link has conforming specs.  The Pennzoil link is not the specific oil called out in the manual as quoted above (and it may not be made anymore, as no Google search turns it up).

I can't see anything that disqualifies the Mobil Delvac.

This is a source I found and mentioned.:

https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchResultsPageCmd?q=mobil+delvac+75w-90+gallon+gear+lube&storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1

If the link works correctly! 

[Steve P]

Back on the subject of front hubs, I pulled the covers of mine today, and took pics.  There is not a lot of grease slinging around but there is some plainly visible that looks fairly fresh, although that may misleading... I guess the bearings could be bone dry and making metal.  I'm still waffling about repacking vs. using a hypodermic needle vs. doing nothing, but will most likely try the hypodermic approach in the coming week or so.  Here are the pics 3 of the right, then 3 of  the left... above, below, and the cover inside. 

Thanks - Steve

[96 EVO]

Steve, keep in mind, that's the outer bearing your seeing.

There's an inner bearing that your not going to get near with a needle!

[Steve P]

12 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Steve, keep in mind, that's the outer bearing your seeing.

There's an inner bearing that your not going to get near with a needle!

Thanks for pointing that out... so the maintenance schedule is repack the bearings with the prescribed grease, but don't replace (unless clearly damaged I guess)?

[96 EVO]

That's right!

Many that repacked theirs at Monaco's suggested mileage have found the same as yourself, and said they could have gone much longer!

[jacwjames]

For 5 years after buying our coach I used a very long syringe ~6".  I could actually put it in the end of my grease gun and then pump grease through it.  It may not have been getting to the other side but I figured centrifugal force would take it to the bearing. 

One issue with repacking it is getting the wheel and then hub off.  I didn't have a decent place to work on the rig, my driveway had a pretty good incline.  And the chance of screwing up the seals while reinstalling. 

So I decided to get the oil bath system installed, actually my wife took it to Josams while she was in Florida at a dog show.  That was in 2013.  Now I just pop the hub cap and look at the oil level. 

 

[Tom Cherry]

My experience.  Do it around 50K.  Then decide if you will keep to 100K.  Mine were fine….but 9 years….ain’t gonna be a priority.  BTW….FOLKS SHOULD REALIZE.  The schedules posted are copied out of a maintenance manual that assumes one drives 100K per year.  Most shops, even the conservative Cummins shops, say the schedules are totally inappropriate for we MH Owners.  I had to do the Allison and coolant at 4 years….to keep extended warranty in effect.  Differential was changed around 50K.  Allison then also.  Wheel bearings repacked.  Gradually converting hydraulic ATF to Transynd.  I do an annual oil and Chassis and fix air leaks every 3 - 4 years.  AF about every 3.  I think I’m OK….OTHERS may differ.